Tom Kite andBorrowed Barnoculars....

[NoBack]

Hey Gary........time to get up now!!!

I know there is no penalty assessed but I guess I wanted to know to what length one can go to identify his ball? When does the help from the gallery have to stop? What cannot be done by them in tournament play?

Was great to see not ONLY Tiger getting some freindly help from the gallery!!!

[The Shtick]

That was hilarious to watch!

[Gary Hill]

You may go to any length to identify you balll, so long as you do not incur a penalty while doing so.

If you climb a tree to identify your ball and accidentally knock the ball out of the tree, it is a penalty.

You may use binoculars provided there is no measuring device attached (e.g. No laser range finder).

Help from the gallery never has to stop. Spectators are outside agencies. However, a player would have to make an attempt to stop them if they were attempting to give the player advice. The location of a ball is not "advice".

Every animate object is an outside agency in stroke play (except the player's caddie) , so the same rules apply to animals, spectators, and playing companions.
(n.b. Please try to avoid using the term "playing partners". "Partners" means something completely different under the Rules. )

At some PGA Tour events, it is kinda hard to define the line between the "spectators" and the "animals".

[JimmyW]

Every animate object is an outside agency in stroke play , (except the player's caddie) so the same rules apply to animals, spectators, and playing companions.

Could you expand a little on this "outside agency" Gary??

The reason I'm asking is due in reference to a question I posed to you last year regarding taking a stroke, hitting an inanimate object, etc etc....

Quote by me
Gary Player, final round, needing to par the final 4 holes at a course with a name that escapes me now. Drive off the 15th par 4 lands near a stone wall. Gary decides than instead of taking the drop he will ricochet it off the wall and back into the fairway. His second careens off the wall and comes back and hits him. His third lands on the green and he one-putts for par(?) He then pars the next 3. It was then determined that he should have taken a 6 instead of a 4 on the 15th and therefore loses by one

Gary
Rule 19. Ball in Motion Deflected or Stopped

19-2. By Player, Partner, Caddie or Equipment
b. Stroke Play
If a competitor’s ball is accidentally deflected or stopped by himself, his partner or either of their caddies or equipment, the competitor shall incur a penalty of two strokes.

Are we talking the same thing here?? JW

[Gary Hill]

No. Not the same thing at all.

An outside agency is any agency that is not "you".

In this context of the Rules, "you" includes your caddie. That means: if your caddie kicks your ball at rest, you get the same penalty as if "you" had kicked it.

If a fellow-competiitor, a spectator, an official, a greenkeeper, a bird, dog, animal, garbage can, or anything else moves your ball at rest, it is replaced with no penalty to anyone.

In the Gary Player situation you referenced, a ball in motion may hit an outside agency ( and often does ) without penalty. However, it is a penalty if you hit "you" with the ball. "you" meaning: yourself, your caddie, or your equipment.

You cannot be an "outside agency" to yourself.
Everyone is an "outside agency" to you.

There are small variations in match play because your opponent is NOT an outside agency. He is your opponent and everbody else on the golf course is an outside agency.