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02-04-2012 12:18 PM #91
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i have found it actually depends on the type of mat. the old school driving range matts that are hard react differently than the real soft cushion ones. i have a thick soft cushion one (similar to the one kball references below) and recently just got the trustrike mat that is firmer for the stance and slightly firmer with the strike.
interesting the shots off the tee with no contact to the mat react normal but shots off the mat are not. if they were both off i wouldn't think the mat is a potential contributing factor but if the tee shots are normal and turf shots are off there could be slight differences with the mat. kball had similar issues with the exact same mat producing short distances.
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02-04-2012 01:17 PM #92
I suppose! In my experience it shouldn't make that much of a difference but the lie does matter somewhat. Post some screenshots 70jr.
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02-05-2012 09:26 PM #93
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any gc2 users know where the "download" link went from foresights web page? how do others check and get firmware revisions now that they removed it?
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02-06-2012 11:04 PM #9470jrGuest
pw.JPG5i.JPGdriver.jpg
well sorry for not getting these up sooner. i was able to get some shots in tonight and i had tape right behind the ball and i was getting a little bit of the tape but only like a 1/16. the second pw is my 5 iron. the driver comes out right on the tee but not the irons. let me know if you see anything.
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02-06-2012 11:13 PM #95
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first thought is if driver is right when you don't hit turf but using the tape on the ground you are catch some tape / turf before the strike that could be part of the problem. kball had the same mat as you and he learned that by taking a slight turf evident of touching the tape the ball carriers are much shorter. i will look by tomorrow at the numbers but recommend try to hit 5 shots clean with tape behind it and not knicking the tape at all - this will insure you are getting everything out of the 100% ball first contact.
What balls are you testing with?
Are you in an unusually warm climate or higher than average elevation? Not for your testing but what you are comparing your outdoor shots too?
What is your average (not max) carry (not total distance) for each club outside?
pw 1 quick look:
* numbers on the surface are similar to min but slower ball speeds and carry
* ignore the roll numbers
* most of them are hooking on you with very little inside out hook - my average inside out is 4 degrees to get it started right of the line before drawing back
* pull draws normally go further than expected to
* tomorrow i will compare them to my files for specifics but they are closer just slower speed therefore sligther less carry; probably related to slightly turf first you mentioned you had.
5iron quick look:
* need to compare against my numbers tomorrow.
* same problem though very little if any inside out with the draw spin will start the ball on line or little pull with draw
* pros average between 4-10 degrees in out - think the average is 8 from the last time i was at golftec
Need to know what you are comparing these to from your averages (not max) outdoors and what balls did you test with and are they the same your play with?Last edited by TheGolfer; 02-06-2012 at 11:23 PM. Reason: quick look at 5iron
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02-06-2012 11:16 PM #96
For your driver speeds and distance you should be carrying the ball 140-150 with pwedge. I carry 120-130 with a lower driver club speed. The carry and probably ball speed is low.
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02-06-2012 11:22 PM #9770jrGuest
i play the penta tp and i am in california with warmer climate but not high elevation. on the course i do not hit pw-8 from the tee to fairway so i cannot say that it gets roll. hitting it to the green i get no roll because how high i hit the ball. i would be hitting it the same way outside as i am inside and i am coming up well short for as little tape as i am getting. i checked and the wait for spin box is checked. i have called foresight and i need to go down there and compare their unit with mine. i just did not know if someone knew why this was happening.
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02-06-2012 11:25 PM #9870jrGuest
bubba i do carry the ball 150 with pw i have a 1000 rounds to confirm that. i do not know why it is short, when i tested the unit at foresight hq their unit was right on. the one i got is short
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02-06-2012 11:27 PM #99
You know your game as I know mine. I would suggest getting a hold of Foresight. It probably is not a big issue but nonetheless something is off. How is your swedge, lwedge and 9 iron?
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02-06-2012 11:30 PM #10070jrGuest
all irons are the same, short. 20-30 yards
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02-06-2012 11:34 PM #101
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i didn't look at driver since you said that matched outdoors. but if that is off you can easily put tape on the face of driver. loose a lot of ball speed if we don't strike it in the sweet spot which is hard going all out with the longest club.
playing in california with warm weather i would think that your climate the ball carries farther than say the northeast where i am just because of temperature. Reference the TPC tournament in pheonix this weekend and the carries they were getting were unreal. off a little much shouldn't be a real lot unless its the longer clubs maybe.
just so we can have a baseline for your pw. ignore the roll in the sim since they are usually not credible. how far on average (not max) do you carry your pw - this is carry not total distance with roll added. not your carrer best shot but what do you think your carry is out of 10 shots outdoors under average conditions (not too hot, not too cool).
that will help in understanding how off it is. they will ask you how you measure these carriers - do you use a bushnell range finder?
the club head data is not measured for gc2 so ignore it. it assumes an average smash factor just to put a number there for an estimate. recommend you test your swing speed using the small portable radar devices hitting balls. they are accurate. this will baseline what your swing speed really is then compare it to ball speed and what efficiency are you getting. if you tape it up and you are on the sweet spot with the verified club head speed you can determine if the ball speed is out of wack. you can also see if you have the club head speed but off from the sweet spot 1/4 or 1/2 inch the ball speed efficiency will be really low and the corresponding carries will be short.
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02-07-2012 12:46 AM #102
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70jr,
Aside from the consistently low ball speed numbers, side spin numbers seem very high for a PW. Do you agree? Or were you hitting huge draws with your PW on purpose?
Have you tried the self leveling utility that Kball mentioned? If that doesn't help than take it in to Foresight. Maybe they will give you a brand new one on the spot.
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02-07-2012 10:17 AM #10370jrGuest
z i dont draw it that much on the course with 7-sw but i was lined up left last night, but that could be something. i just sent kball a pm so we will see if that takes care of it.
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02-07-2012 10:34 AM #104
I think the calibration/self leveling utility may help. I am not convinced that the mat is the issue but who know. TYry everything and getting the utility from Kball hopefully does the trick. Keep us posted.
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02-07-2012 10:40 AM #105
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02-07-2012 10:56 AM #106
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pitching wedge test.jpg
attached is a test i did with pitching wedge. used prov1 ball. club fitting range and moved green up to hit into with conditions = soft (don't think it matters but). verified swing speed averages independently with radar and they check. yardages are consistent with outdoors. also verified each shot had 100% ball first by not hitting tape behind the ball. "wait for spin" option selected. the results are what i see outdoors on an average temperature day (summer hot goes carries farther spring/fall colder goes shorter).
you never said what ball are you using - are you using real balls and if so what brand and is it the same you use outdoors? stupid question but some people on the forum use fake balls and they won't be the same.
if you hit those 2 piece low spin balls outside they go a lot farther because they spin a lot less. perhaps you are using a ball that spins more inside? let us know what ball.
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02-07-2012 11:19 AM #107
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70jr
i posted my test for the pitching wedge hoping to help. assume you are righty? bad news but it looks like its close to what is expected. just going through the numbers and comparing yours to mine which i know are pretty much spot on.
* ball speed - 4mph from ~ -2mph club head speed; on the surface that should carry a few yards less than mine which I was 4 yards longer so it checks; i verified my club head speed with radar independently and my outdoor carries I use bushnell 1500 range finder. the club head you see is reasonable for the ball speed measured which is similar to what i had just slightly slower from the radar.
* LA - same
* path - I was +2 more in to out which could help make better contact than down the line or slight pull occasionally
* side spin - you averaged 800 more rpms left side spin but you mentioned you were not aligned square so that probably has something to do with it. depending on lie angle but if you are catching slight turf that you mentioned but on the heel maybe that is helping the face close more than normal??
* backspin - similar to my prov1 wedge
* angle of descent - same
* carry = -4 yards shorter but expected with slightly slower ball speed / club head speed.
* total distance - looks like you didn't move the green in to hit into so the reaction on the fairway is an extended roll which is known for gc2; next time move the green in on the range and you get a more realistic reaction with the spin. if you hit down on it the wedges can back up.
if the headquarters is near you and can easily just stop in and compare your unit with the one you hit from side by side. just make sure the "wait for spin" is set on both units since if they don't have it set that unit will probably carry farther with less spin from what I hear.
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02-07-2012 08:48 PM #10870jrGuest
i play penta tp's, and the hq is about hour and a half away. i have been wanting to go down there for sometime, just have not had the time. they are only open m-f 5 pm. The golfer if you and i hit the pw the same how far do you hit your driver? please post some driver tests. i have to turn the boost up to 18 ont he GC2 software to get real outdoor iron readings. just got kballs thing i will let you know if it makes a difference. thanks.
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02-07-2012 10:34 PM #109
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an easy way to have a third party verify one of the critical variables is use an inexpensive swing radar device to measure your swings also. if they are close to the estimated club heads speed that foresight has then the measured ball speed is reliable.
i will check my driver. haven't swung it in a while since working on new swing drills with shorter clubs but looking at your numbers of 117mph for club head i don't come close. The 170mph ball speed is past most of the pro speed on tour.
i notice some items on with driver that can be robbing you some distance even though you have wicked club head speed. LA seems low with higher spin. Perhaps hitting down or even versus hitting up on the ball with positive AoA. Interesting that azimuth and sidespin vary shot by shot and are not consistent. not saying there is a right way but usually they tend to be consistent for the most part - looks like you had push fade, pull draw, pull fade, push fade, pull fade. the angle of descent is 40 versus optimal 37 to maximize total distance with carry and average roll. these are items i would target for fitting a shaft versus saying they unit is wrong.
way out of my league if you play with those average numbers.
simplest thing is to drive over since they are local and sit it down side by side the one you tested and show the differences while making sure all options are set the same. that is black and white. its either different or its not. if different walk out with a new one.
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02-07-2012 10:52 PM #110
70jr if your ball speed for the driver is 170 mph then you should hit your pwedge 150yrds as you say and anything less makes no sense. Check the leveling calibration utility and let us know.
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02-07-2012 11:01 PM #111
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the weird thing is when you compare his shots to my shots side by side for pw all the data is consistent. slightly less carry due to slightly less ball speed. if the driver is correct and the turf shots are not then the mat is suspect. he agrees he catches a little of it and kball mentioned he has the same mat with a little bit mat will cause ball speed / carry to drop.
another way to test is hit the pw off a very small tee like a par 3. adjust grip slightly so you take hit it a groove or two higher. this should fly further than your pw off a clean turf lie. if that doesn't work then something is wierd where driver off tee is fine but the pw off tee is not. curiuos about that one.
if the distance is normal with pw off tee then its the mat.
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02-07-2012 11:04 PM #112
Not disagreeing. Perhaps he should test the unit on the range or somewhere other than his home and using a different mat or real grass.
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02-08-2012 01:31 PM #11370jrGuest
i agree with all of you. last night i got home late from work but I saw thatkball sent me that file so I will check it out tonight. I have never hit theunit on real grass or even outside. I am going to the course on Friday so I willbring it and see what it looks like on real grass. The golfer when I went tothe hq is was saying 155 on my pw and 200 for 8 i. just like it is so if the Fridaydoes not go well then I will take it to SD and talk to them about it. I havenot hit balls from the tee with irons so I will try that as well. I will keepyou posted.
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02-08-2012 02:47 PM #114
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are you a longer driver by trade? if not you should try it you will give them a run for their money.
probably 80% of the pga pros don't CARRY their 8iron 200 yards with no wind or elevation in average temperature. this is average carry not max carry. its probably more like 98%.
if you can putt and chip you should go straight to q-school
not sure how you are measuring carry precisely for 200+ yard shots with zero elevation. i use the bushnell 1500 but visually its hard to know exactly where it landed from that far. perhaps if you setup with a known distance to the flag like 100, 150 yards and just see if the ball went long past the carry but the unit says way short.
i still think since you are saying its way off the easiest thing to do due to your location is just walk in with it and test this unit side by side with their unit since you live near HQ and the one you tested there you said was spot on. you can quickly resolve it within one day. their initial argument is that most people think they carry the ball farther than what they really do (learned from personal experience and proved them wrong) but since you can sit the two units down with each other side by side you can't argue if one says 150 and the other says 100. that will be the fastest way to get the replacement. i am on the other side of the country so i didn't have the benefit of doing that - frankly i would have been in their office the day after i bought it.
good luck.
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02-08-2012 06:51 PM #115
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GC2 users -
I use the software primarily in the club fitting range mode. If you have the champions 12 pack and choose a specific hole to hit into for range practice curious which course/hole you find has the nicest views.
Thanks.
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02-10-2012 10:17 AM #116
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i found the trackman link below very helpful in comparing my carry, ball speed, launch angle etc against the pga tour averages. May be helpful to others...
http://mytrackman.com/TrackMan.Onlin...GANumbers.html
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02-10-2012 02:30 PM #117
I use this reference all the time. I would suggest that the average male golfer look at the LPGA stats as that is more close to the average male golfer. I think the numbers should be yards not metres????
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02-10-2012 02:36 PM #118
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There is a tab at the bottom of each column to change them to yards.
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02-10-2012 03:00 PM #119
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02-10-2012 03:23 PM #120
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what is a yard?!
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