Trackman 3 indoor unit with E6 feedback

[TheGolfer]

Been talking wtih trackman 3 regarding their indoor unit. very impressive. also very pricey.

anyone have experience testing this model? Very curious about thier other software included that includes video capture and shows target line, path line, swing plane, and face angle at impact. new model is supposedly more portable.

told I need 10ft from tee to screen and 8 feet behind the tee for best results. less can work but they will tell you the types of mishots to look out for.

so far great people to talk with on the phone and calling me on weekends with a goal to bring the unit to my golf room to test.

any feedback is interested. I know the big one is its expensive. may not even need the E6 courses unless you want to play golf but I have been finding myself at the range almost all the time. they said they provide the ball projections / roll for E6 rather than relying on E6.

Let's see if anyone has demo'd this product.

[bubba22]

Wow, the Golfer r you thinking of getting one? Man that's 18 feet needed? I wouldn't have enough room in my setup. Do you have that much room the Golfer? I would love to get some feedback as well. Any idea of the price and the cost of the courses?

[TheGolfer]

it is a lot of space. my room is a rectangle. if i turn it i can just fit it.

short ways i got the tee 10ft. you can do 9-9.5 and depending on driver speed you may get occasional obvious errors they will tell you to look for and redo the shot.

on the back you could do 7 but recommend 8. i may be able to hit on an angle in my room to get it at least to test it. if i do go forward i would need to remove half my closet on the back wall and shorten it then that would free up the space.

i am not anxious about spending even more money. it is a lot, but you get what you pay for. search for trackman 3. software is incredible. a lot of people just get their software and vidoe analysis. i think that is $18k but may be negotiable. then e6 is like 3.5k for 15 courses and range. their e6 prices are expensive compared to gsa i think selling all 75 for $5k.

i think i am going forward with the demo and comparison of the two. they didn't bat an idea and loved the idea of comparing they were so confident.

its funny i started with the p3pro, then looked at protee / gsa, then trugolf, then landed on gc2 with problems and I never expected to spend that now looking at this. nothing definite yet. curious how the test between the two will go.

i will keep you posted. curious if anyone as tried the new trackman 3 indoor unit. checkout its website. nice stuff but sticker shock.

BTW, even though its presales talk they said their job is to work with each customer for 100% satisfaction. if something is wrong they said they will immediately support to resolve, and if still then have someone at the house to troubleshoot quickly. different perspective on customer support for some others but again its the (i can't even say jaguar of the sims but it seems like the space shuttle).

[bubba22]

Go for it!!! Do the testing and post asap. When will you do the demo? Sounds like their customer service is great, but at that price I would expect that. Are you not happy with the GC2 or just not satisfied with their customer service, screen etc. ? Make sure you have the room space to o th testing otherwise their will always be speculations.

[ZMax]

Their price for the E6 is comparable to GGS's E6 which sells for $5K. Do they have an option for Red Chain?

The space requirement is not so bad. I have 20 ft total lenght but my ceiling is not high enough. How high is yours?

I like how the high speed camera assist in the ball path measurements.

[bubba22]

I agree. The camera is great idea.

[TheGolfer]

they were very upfront about the specific room requirements. for the test I can hit diagonally to the screen and have the room. that unit has a cool feature that you pick out an object and just tell it that is your target and it adjusts. with christmas its probably not going to happen until after for a couple weeks realistically. talking to their north east us team later today to try to coordinate.

[ZMax]

Sounds like you are serious about this. Can't wait for your report on the GC2/Trackman comparison.

[js1010]

Also very interested in hearing the results of a demo vs the gc2.

I originally inquired with trackman a few years ago before I bought the GC2. I just found the proposal they sent me for 17K - One thing I noticed after reading it again today that it also had line items for:

• 1K annual hardware support
• 1K for Software updates

these were for the second year -first year was included.

2k a year for support is pretty stiff for a home user - maybe for business profiting from trackman fittings . Hopefully they have reduced this recurring cost dramatically since then.

I was a bit weary at the time about trackman accuracy indoors and dishing out this much. Outdoors it seems to be the king but wasn't sure how well it would track a ball even at the recommended distance. And that it also has to use a algo to compute carry vs outdoors tracking the ball most of the way .

Very curious if you get them to your house to see how well it works - how often it misses shots (if any) and also how long after you hit the simulated flight starts. ALso to see short game stuff. I acutally got an email trackman today that announced a new ultra portable unit that states short game improvements.


http://link.globasemail.com/webversi...12404-7518c091

[js1010]

In reading this new trackman brochure it states measures 6 ft chips to 400 yards drives - wonder if it will read putts with the E6 software.

[CPA]

Can anyone tell me why all these launch monitor manufacturers are so secretive about price and features/courses
Only Par2Pro seem to give prices !
any costing on the trackman 3?

[tarmactrr]

Can anyone tell me why all these launch monitor manufacturers are so secretive about price and features/courses
Only Par2Pro seem to give prices !
any costing on the trackman 3?

because they don't want you price shopping, and I'd be willing to bet the prices changed based on the customer as well. For the price they charge, you know they have a ton of wiggle room in their prices for negotiation.

[tarmactrr]

I have no indoor trackman experience, only outdoor. That said if I had that kind of money to blow on a sim, I'd go with trackman. Thier outdoor unit is simply amazing.

[bubba22]

Trackman outdoors, yes. Indoors it's a whole new ball game. Reviews like this are great. The question for home users always is how accurate do you really need?

[TheGolfer]

coordinating a demo but looks like after the holidays.

agree, the outdoor unit looks amazing. even the software for the indoor unit for trackman 3 looks very cool. looks like the capture all clubhead and ball data. on the club head side i am primarily interested in angle of attack coming into impact with the driver. they claim if you meet the space requirements the indoor and outdoor are very similar on accuracy. they did acknowledge today that there is no putting "yet". when asked about short game they said the new trackman 3 now can measure carries for chips ~ 9 ft.

the price for indoor is 16k usd no video / 19k usd with video. outdoor is 22k usd no video / 25k usd with video. i thought i went over the top with gc2 but these prices are extremely high.

tm3 comes with a video camera for behind the golfer view and video software where it will show your swing, path, and face at impact with your swing on video. for $60 they say they can also integrate the side view cam with their video sofware.

this is where gc2 will have an advantage - much cheaper for indoor sim use but curious about the difference in measurements. its actually much cheaper for outdoor LM use but it doesn't track the ball flight so for outdoors clearly advantage trackman.

the gentleman i spoke with today wasn't sure exactly if for the sim they use E6 projection algorithms or if they use trackman - definitely use trackman data at impact. he will let me know this week. for sim purposes you are only as accurate as your weakest link - either the sensors or the software projection algorithms. for indoor sim purposes it wouldn't help spending that kind of money to capture everything just to then feed it into an algorithm that is not as precise or leverages the trackman ball flight and roll analysis they have done over the years which no one can touch. they refer to the sim software as more of a "game" - same perspective from foresight gc2. they have seperate displays for range use and skill challenges outside of e6.

btw the price does not include E6. their prices for E6 were very expensive - ~ 7-8k usd for all courses and ~3-4k for ~15 courses with range. i think gsa sells e6 way cheaper.

they did say they made tm3 smaller to be more portable - similar to old bulky laptop cases i am told.

if you buy the indoor unit it comes with ~50 hours of outdoor time that you can use. then if you want to use it more outdoors they will charge a fee for additional hours.


http://trackman.dk/Products/TrackMan-Pro.aspx

even if the accuracy is there for this kind of money i don't see too many home users buying it for indoor sim purposes when you have the foresight gc2 much lower price point. obviuosly outdoor accuracy will be there if you are tracking the ball flight with phased array radar but not sure how much more accurate it is to gc2 indoors sending data through the sim software?

[keble]

TheGolfer, did you have chance to test Trackman indoor? review needed.

[CPA]

Thegolfer doesn't hang around much anymore. He bought gc2. Pretty sure he did not demo tm3. Was tm2.

[playsted]

I'm looking to build this setup (TM/e6). Unfortunately there aren't any units to demo nearby (Austin, TX) and I haven't found any real reviews of the Trackman Home Studio. I'm talking to a sales rep to figure thing out a little more this weekend. I've heard they have a several thousand dollar maintenance fee a year which is a little off putting just on the principle of things. If I do end up getting this setup I'll post some updates here so others can get a little more information and make a more informed decision than I am having the make.

Alternatively I may go with the GC2. The lower space requirements are a bonus but I don't like what I hear about people having to calibrate their unit to get the correct distance on shots.

[CPA]

Good luck with TM3 accuracy indoors. Suggest you test by blocking meausument outdoors immediately after shot and test accuracy.

Give us feedback.

[HRS]

GC2 is fine. I've tested outdoors and indoors without problems including driver (but I hit shorter than most which might have something to do with it). Consensus is irons very close, some debate over driver distance but I don't think anybody questions accuracy of shot shape. Do you hit the exact same distance within 10 yards every drive? If so then you don't need any sim help anyway!

[wbealsd]

I've not had my GC2 calibrated, unless the previous owner had it done, then it's just "stock out of the box". I've taken it to the range and had some of the better golfers in the area try it at the range and used laser rangefinders to test for distance and accuracy. From what we could see, GC2 performs within its specs. Certainly, for me the accuracy is sufficient for my purposes of game improvement, equipment fitting (local fitter also uses GC2, so I can export/import data from mine, which is nice personally) and entertainment. That said, I've never used it for putting, but other than the ProTee I'm not sure how much value practicing putting with a simulator would be.

The fact it's portable and can be used in all lighting conditions has turned out to be a lot more important to me than I'd originally thought, so all things considered I'm extremely pleased with mine.

[Kball]

To be clear - the "calibration" that is being referenced is not required by everyone and when it is required is very simple and quick to do. The GC2 is an amazing unit - with accuracy, ease of set-up and use and portability being huge plusses.

[playsted]

Yea the GC2 looks nice also. After looking over the two units I'm not really sure which I may end up going with. Off the top of my head weighing the following pros and cons:

Trackman:
+ Trackman Combine and golf stat tracking over time/practice tools
+ Club head tracking
+ Easiest setup out of all
+ Top of the line ball flight algorithms
+ Compatible with Perfect Parallel if software ever comes out
- Focus on teaching professionals with sofware
- Pricing policies on software: The hardware costs you 16k. If you want to be able to use the camera that is included in the unit to watch your swing, you have to pay 3k extra. If you want to use the unit outside you have to pay another 5k extra. No hardware differences.
- Cost of unit high, although GC2 with clubhead tracking attachment costs approximately the same.
- No putting.
- Space requirements large.
- Very few reviews online for indoor.
- Current simulation software extremely expensive ($2.5k entry level up to $6k) and not sure how well it works (e6)

GC2:
+ Low entry level cost
+ Can be used for putting in simulation (although putting on a sim sucks)
+ Small space requirements
+ Lots of feedback from users online (here)
+ Indoor simulation used extensively
- No club head information
- Simulation graphics looks bad (to me)

[bubba22]

I would disagree that the graphics are bad on the GC2 (essentially red Chain). In fact I think overall it is better than E6. As well putting ertainly doesn't suck on all sims. Protee have a very nice putting add on.

[Honum]

Hi there, I don't come by often anymore (used to back when I had the P3Pro in play as that was giving me a lot of headaches).

Anyways, a lot has happened since then, and I'm a professional clubfitter here in Denmark, and just happened to expand my TrackMan III Professional Indoor with the Trugolf E6 software for simulator play in my fitting studio, so when I saw this thread I thought I would add my 5 cents.

As a clubfitter precision in club and ball data is everything, and for this TrackMan III is without comparison. It is an expensive system compared to most, but if you want the absolute best readings it is the way to go, and the Indoor unit does not dissapoint and is all the way up there with the outdoor unit. It is the same hardware, and TrackMans algorithms are so accurate nowadays as you will see little to no difference between shot tracked indoors and outdoors.

The E6 software works really well with the TrackMan unit. There are a few hickups as the integration is new and still being worked on, but the customer service is great. I have "direct lines" to both TrackMan and Trugolf after reporting issues and they are very keen to sort out the last few hickups, and with the patch I recieved today, and the round I played afterwards I didn't see any of the issues I had before, so it is without doubt the best simulator experience I have had (also tried ProTee, FullSwing and P3Pro).

It does actually feature putting, but it's disabled in a config option at the moment, so I reckon its something they are working on. It's not really a concern for me, since I have a "bump" 2 yards infront of my ball position, so I can't really get a plain putting surface anyway, and in general prefer not to put on simulators.

It is an expensive setup, but it blows anything else out of the way in my opinion. Both in terms of accuracy and playability, but accuracy ofcourse being the main reason to spend the extra bucks, together with the fact that it requires no complicated setup. Just put the TrackMan up behind your hitting mat, enter the calibration option in E6 where you get a video feed from the TrackMan, and point the target line at whatever you're aiming at in your playing direction...that's it.

Oh and then it ofcourse has the advantage of portability. You can bring it to the range etc (if you purchase some outdoor time or have the outdoor version of it), or over to a friends house if he/she has a hitting mat and a net/screen.

Best regards,
Jon Honum

Custom Golf, Denmark

[bubba22]

Thanks Honum. Sounds like a great setup. The 2 concerns for me with the Trackman III are the cost and the lack of putting. I love putting on my Protee so for all those that say putting sucks on all sims, I totally disagree with you. If your simulating and not putiing or chipping, then you are missing 1/2 of the game. Having said that, I would love to have a indoor Trackman but the cost is way too prohibitary for me especially considering their are other cheaper options that exist and new ones soon on the way. However for clubfitting etc the Trackman must be the bomb!!!

[playsted]

IMO putting and chipping are great for a simulator for entertainment purposes, but aren't really worth using for practice. The hardest part of putting is reading the speed and break of the green. Neither of these can be practiced accurately on the sim. Chipping you need to practice different lies in the rough along with knowing the spin on you chips for how much they check up. This doesn't really work on a sim either.

That said I'm leaning against trackman just for having putting and chipping. It would be a big part of the entertainment value.

[ZMax]

Thanks for the feedback but a cou0ple of things don't make sense. Even if the putting was enabled, how would the Trackman even read the putts anyway since it would be "under the radar"?

Also, I seriously doubt that you played on a Protee 2.0 with the new machine vision cameras. And you also have not played on a GC2.

The GC2 has measured spin axis where as the Trackman estimates spin axis when indoors. GC2 will measure putts. It also has better simulation software and graphics. The E6 will bore you to death when you compare it to Red Chain. Trackman is king for outdoors but I will take the GC2 for indoors any day and save a bout load of money and have a better simulator.

[bubba22]

playsted I agree with you however I do think chipping and putting can be practiced somewhat on the right sim. All grounded shots will not be like hitting of of real grass (or rough, or sand etc) for any shot except teed shots. putting and chipping on the Protee is very realistic and as you say can be great for entertainment.

I agree with ZMax.

[Honum]

Nope, I haven't tried a ProTee 2.0 (I don't know of any setups in Denmark). As for putting, nothing is "under the radar". TrackMan measures from groundlevel and up, and I have tried to enable putting in the config just to try it, and it did register them, but I couldn't judge accuracy as I have a bump 2 yards in front of ball position as mentioned, so it's definately not under the radar. The reason I don't particularly like putting on sims is because I don't find I can get the "feel" for lengths and breaks right.

As for chipping, that works extremely well on the TrackMan III / E6 setup. TrackMan has done a lot on the short game side since TrackMan III and TrackMan Performance Studio (TPS) software came out, which the E6 sim benefits greatly from

As for TrackMan calculating spin axis when indoors, I don't know where you got that information from, but that is incorrect. I don't know if it has been the case historically, but spin axis are true measurements indoor on TrackMan III atleast, and has been since that was released fall 2011. (I never owned a TrackMan II, so I wouldn't know about that one, but I do know that it wasn't as good at indoor measurements, which was my reason for going with the TM III despite the higher price back when I purchased it for my clubfitting business).