Zelocity Tracker Review

[patator]

I'm not surprised neither...but I tried as many of you advised me to do.
Here is the mail I sent to both Ken Starr and Sean Smith. Only Sean answered :

As you understand from the title of my email, I'm very disappointed with the Tracker, after using it only 4 times.
Using the beta release you sent me (following the problems I had with version 1.1.3), I had more time to test the Tracker unit (not only for carry distance but also for spin and ball trajectory).

You will find enclosed the new tests/analysis I have run with the Tracker after you gave me access to the beta 1.5 version. The contents of these word documents explain why I believe the Tracker doesn't work as I wish it should or as a Doppler radar LM should.


To summarize the situation, after having run 2 test sessions with the beta version :

• no bug message at all during both sessions
• the export function doesn't take into account the regional settings of the PC (ie: decimals are indicated with a comma and not a dot in most of Europe)

• the distance on short iron (PW) are closer to reality than on version 1.1.3 (2m difference vs reality - it was 7-8m off before)

• the distance on mid irons (6 iron) are, as an average, 8-10m longer than reality (distances were measured from the landing point of the ball to the tee with a bushnell)
• the software doesn' t take into account temperature nor humidity (if one changes these values in the settings, the distance of the recorded shots are not changed. The distance is automatically updated when you change the wind strength/direction or altitude)
• the speed prior to impact is not shown in the beta release (is this value measured or calculated ?)
• the azimuth is correctly indicated (this is the big difference between the Tracker and the Purelaunch)
• the shot shape is not correct most of the time
• the side spin is probably not correct. A good side spin calculation will help the software indicating the correct shot shape (I guess it is entirely calculated and not measured) .
• the deviation is not correct at all - deactivated from the shot tab (for outdoor use) but not from the "all shots tab"
• the spin is more than questionable. As opposed to any other Doppler radar technology, it seems that we have to select the iron before hitting any shot if we want to obtain a "logical" spin value.
  If I hit a 6 iron and indicate to the software that I hit a "6 iron 31°", I obtain spin values from 5100 to 5600rpm
  If I hit a 6 iron and indicate to the software that I hit a "GW iron 52°", I obtain spin values from 10800 to 11500rpm (distances are thus far away from reality)
  If I hit a 6 iron and indicate to the software that I hit a "3 iron 21°", I obtain spin values from 3000 to 3500rpm (distances are thus far away from reality)
  
  Ken Starr, himself, explained that Doppler Radar LM don't need any club selection in this article : "Ken Starr Interview: Zelocity Launch Monitors - iseekgolf.com".
  As explained by Ken, only camera based systems requires club selection !
  The user's guide provided by Zelocity mentions that the item selection is only necessary for "reporting purposes" (p. 15)..and not for calculating important values like spin.
  So, how can I trust the spin values indicated by the software as they're apparently based on the loft of the club ?

• The launch angle limit (I was told by Sean 40°) prevents me for analysing shots hit with a 56° and most of the shots hit with 52° wedges (see attached files). This analysis also showed that when the launch angle is not measured correctly (ie: 3° or 13° for a high shot), the spin values remains very close to the other shots that were correctly captured. Does it mean that the spin values are a deduction of the ball speed and the loft selected in the system ?

To summarize my strong disappointment, I would say that I can not trust important values produced by the Tracker, for clubfitting purposes or indoor simulation : distances, spin, side spin, deviation.
I don't need to mention that the AOD is probably wrong if the side spin is not correct (and it's not as the shot shape is not correctly evaluated).
Other point, the AOA can not be calculated using the difference between loft and launch angle (as indicated by the user guide). This article perfectly explains it : http://www.iseekgolf.com/clubfitting...ole-in-fitting.
I hope/imagine that the club head speed, ball speed and launch angle are correctly measured (maybe some of these parameters involve calculations - ie : club head speed before impact). Unfortunately, these values are not enough to conduct a correct fitting or to use, with trust for accuracy (deviation, shot shape, distances, AOD..) the Tracker Indoor.



I haven't received the terms and conditions concerning the return policy, but I guess it is 30 days. This period has expired. I received the unit on the 10th of November and could only use it 4 times since then (only for test). I sent my first "complain about accuracy" on the 6th of Dec. I was told that the 1.5 version would fix my problems. I received a beta version on the 23thd of December.
I can now say that beta version or not, the Tracker LM doesn't meet my expectations and doesn't reach the level of accuracy/measurement expected from a Doppler Radar LM which is worth more than 4KUSD.
The Tracker unit (using the Zelocity Doppler Radar Technology) is not working as described in the main Zelocity website or in the Press or (see details in "spin variation...doc)

As a result, I kindly ask you to accept taking back the Tracker unit and refund me. I will accept to pay for the return by UPS.

I thank you in advance for analysing my request and understanding my position.
Best regards

Here is what I planned to do
- write a review summarizing everything we said. Bubba22 agreed to stick at the top of this section (I think we should have a clear review of each LM in different posts - not all in one, it will be better for Seach Engine Optimization) ;

- spread on a maximum of forums and newsgroups the review that I will write here (clubfitter73 has done it on his Google newsgroup)

- send a mail to different magazines trying to bring to their attention a possible huge fraud case, including iseekgolf.com (so if any of you have a contact name...)

- try to sell my zelocity at a cheap price (some people might be interested despite the defaults presented in this thread). Everybody that will be willing to buy a Zelocity Tracker will first look for reviews on the Internet. Try to type "Zelocity Tracker Review" on google and you will see what appears first

- I will either buy a Flightscope Prime second hand or a Flightscope X2. Both of them are using the same firmware and software. The latest version has fixed the issue of AOA, which is well know for the Flightscope Kudu and Prime

- At one stage, I thought about sending a complain to the Arizona Attorney General. I think it will be a waste of time, except if I could come up with a list of unsatisfied Tracker customers.

- I won't answer the Zelocity's mail.
The answer is what we've been doing for some weeks in this forum : letting people know what is worth this company.

Patrice

[CPA]

No surprise to hear they are refusing to take notice of my order cancelation and intend to send me a unit!

I have now offered a cancelation fee

I intend to litigate.......I am a lawyer!

[ZMax]

All good ideas patrice. Let me know if I can help in any way.

This forum has a signature feature I believe. Perhaps I can use that area to help the cause. Sending you a pm.

[ZMax]

No surprise to hear they are refusing to take notice of my order cancelation and intend to send me a unit!

I have now offered a cancelation fee

I intend to litigate.......I am a lawyer!

They're ignoring the 30 day return policy...Not surprised.

[CPA]

They're ignoring the 30 day return policy...Not surprised.

can you point that out on their website or where you got it from.

my belief is that the use of look up tables for spin is not a measurement as they have represented and no Court in any land would find in their favour.

In Australia we have a consumer affairs department who prosecute these sorts of misrepresentations- is there any such department in AriZona?

[ZMax]

Didn't find it on their website or anywhere. Sorry, was just saying what was normal.

File claims with the Arizona Attorney General: http://www.azag.gov/consumer/

File claims and reviews with the Better Business bureau: http://www.bbb.org/us/Find-Business-...oration/85260/

The above might not do much if anything but I like patrice's idea below.

- write a review summarizing everything we said. Bubba22 agreed to stick at the top of this section (I think we should have a clear review of each LM in different posts - not all in one, it will be better for Seach Engine Optimization) ;

- spread on a maximum of forums and newsgroups the review that I will write here (clubfitter73 has done it on his Google newsgroup)

[patator]

The 30 days return policy is something common in the US if I'm not wrong...at least for companies that are confident with their product.

CPA, why don't we write a complain together to the attorney that both Zmax and myself mentionned ?
Having two complains coming from Australia and France might catch his attention.

If you haven't managed to cancel your order, are you in with me ?

can you point that out on their website or where you got it from.

my belief is that the use of look up tables for spin is not a measurement as they have represented and no Court in any land would find in their favour.

In Australia we have a consumer affairs department who prosecute these sorts of misrepresentations- is there any such department in AriZona?

[ZMax]

Don't forget claims and review at the Better Business Bureau.

The 30 day return policy is common with US companies but it's not a requirement in Arizona. If it's not on their website or the receipt, there's not much you can do, aside from the fraud claims.

[CPA]

After an email to Par2Pro they have now removed Zelocity links and endorsement from their Website.

Power to the people!

[patator]

OptimalFlight has done the same. They don't support the Zelocity brand anymore :

http://www.optimalflight.com/index.html

• OptimalFlight software supports ONLY launch monitor systems
  reporting actionable quality data proven to enhance and expand
  the skills and services of a fitter or golf instruction professional.
  Contact me here to qualify your LM system for RealTime data
  support and benefit from OptimalFlight feedback.
  

• 
  

• Current list of supported and recommended LM systems:
  FlightScope, AccuSport, TrackMan, AboutGolf 3Trak,
  GolfTek, and Golf Achiever II. An announcement will be made
  for any additions to this list!
  

patrice

[Japi67]

Hellou,

This Zelocity Tracker Review is great, thank you.

I have Purelaunch and Zelocity sent me email again to buy Product Key

Also, your Annual Support Agreement (ASA) expires on 11/18/11 and you will need to renew it in order to get software updates and technical support. Our ASA includes unlimited technical support via email and telephone and software updates via download for one year. The cost is only $395 and the start date for your ASA is the day you pay for the order.

And try they also try to trade Purelaunch -> Tracker

You would be looking at a few thousand dollars plus your PureLaunch Pro.

And quess what? I don't trade

I must buy that Product key and Zelocity give me discount. I will pay 100 USD.

Maybe someday I have Flightscope


p.s. Anybody want to buy Purelaunch

[ZMax]

Sorry to hear that Japi67. We just have to hope that everybody reads this thread before buying a Zelocity product.

[Japi67]

Sorry to hear that Japi67. We just have to hope that everybody reads this thread before buying a Zelocity product.

Yeah, that's true.
I cancel everything with Zelocity and put old version 4.2 to Purelaunch.

[CPA]

mmmmmm is it about time they came clean and did not make claims that their hardware measures something it does not.

Japi67 - for that $395 I'm sure they change the numbers in the lookup tables for you!

[CPA]

mmmmm the saga with zelocity continues

I have told them 6 weeks ago my order is cancelled as a result of their false and misleading (deceptive?) conduct as a result of the tracker clearly NOT measuring spin data as they represented

They refused to listen

No unit received so I asked them in the absence of giving my money back please promptly send it so I can get it independently tested (evidence) in order to commence litigation against them

still not sent

Now I say the order is cancelled as I paid them 7 weeks ago and they have not sent it (theft?)

SILENCE................

anyone live near Scottsdale, AZ so they can go around for me and see if anyone is still alive or if the hoards of angry dissatisfied customers have been already.

[bubba22]

CPA have you at least got your money back?????

[CPA]

no Bubba22 - I thought I was clear, they are refusing to give my $ back- and not sending goods

[bubs3141]

that is a crime. They can't keep both. Either the money or the product has to be sent to you. You would have an international case. It would be sticky but you have ground.

[ZMax]

I have a brother-in-law in the Pheonix area, which is not too far from Scottsdale.

[bubba22]

Holy crap CPA!!! This is just not right. Local authorities should be notified!!!!!

[jwright]

cpa did you pay with a credit card such as a VISA? Sometimes the credit card company will cover you for situations such as this. I believe Visa does but not 100% sure might be something to look into.

[CPA]

Zelocity don't take cards......TT only

[jwright]

wow sounds like criminals, wonder if they even have an office anymore. I was suprised they were not at the PGA show probably cant show there faces anywhere safely.. hopefully this gets resoved for you maybe someone on this site that lives close to them could stop in and ask them for an update on your situation.

[CPA]

Have just sent a complaint to the Scottsdale Police Commander.......

[ZMax]

Well know sheriff. http://www.mcso.org/ContactUs/Default.aspx

[Qnub]

This is BS and a crime to me...These guys are crooks and can't believe they would have the nerve to not refund you or even send you the unit. To me, this equals robbery...I wish you the best CPA and hopefully this gets resolved for you asap so you can get a real LM

[CPA]

An update on the Zelocity debacle;

l ordered and paid for the tracker just before Christmas. Patrice then posted his testing of the Tracker showing it did not do what Zelocity had represented, amongst other things directly measure spin data indoors.
As a result l cancelled my order and requested $ back, approx 26 December from memory.

For the past 2 months I have had nothing, and I mean nothing.
Sean says they don't have a return policy. I say it is not a return as they misrepresented their product. (have a look at their website if you have any doubt)
6 weeks after order I again said the order was cancelled, this time for non-delivery as well as the mis-representation.
"I will post it next week and provide tracking info" says Sean.

No communication from him since.
I have advised him if he does send it I will have it independently tested to use for evidence to sue their a---- off. Noting that I am a lawyer and looking for a good excuse (and at their expense!) to travel to the lovely USA.

I cannot believe that a company would be this desperate for a sale.

If anyone on this site is convinced to buy a zelocity tracker after reading this thread they have rocks in their head (unless they understand and accept its limitations.)

So now I have to send the fraud Squad around to see if they are still in business and tell them to give my $ back.

l buy from OS all the time, including China and have never experienced anything like this.

will keep you updated re the Fraud investigation.

[CPA]

PS.If you are reading this Mr Zelocity I invite you to justify your claims about your product as well as your actions/inaction in my case.....

[jwright]

Hi CPA, have you sent reported this to the buisness bureau http://lookup.bbb.org/ I have used this and it worked in my case.

[CPA]

mmmm I started to fill in the Police complaint and shot an email off to sean in the process.........got a response.He said wait until Monday he is going to talk to to Mr Zelocity and will get back to me.........