Zelocity Tracker Review

[patator]

Wow, that's terrible. Looking up values from charts that correspond to random values for a given shot characteristic? If that's true they shouldn't have any customers at all. That's terrible. Not to mention probably illegal for false advertising or something. Ridiculous.

I had the same reaction than you...it is too "big" to believe it, isn't it ?

You're talking about illegal sales ? Well, with the tracker, nothing is mentioned on their website concerning measurement vs calculation. They don't mention neither anything about specifications and tolerances ! They used to do it with the PureLaunch.

Here is another PM I received yesterday, :

We actually looked at going to court. We filed claim against them in Arizona Small Claims court and the group was going to fly our rep out to the court date. In the end though it was recommended to us that all we would have accomplished was spending more money for nothing. ... We might have prevailed in the end but more than likely the money spent would not have been worth it.

Maybe the laws are more strict in Canada on companies that sell fraudulent products?

I would ask them if you can return the unit. There is nothing lost in asking.

[ZMax]

What about the credit card company? Any protection from them?

[patator]

I read your comments ZMAx...I will make a new report to Zelocity concerning this beta release after doing the test clubfitter73 and yourself have recommended.

I will question Zelocity about:

• spin : is it measured or calculated ?
• club selection : why do I obtain very different results (spin, launch angle, distance ), when playing with the same club, and selecting different item/loft
• humidity : why the beta release doesn't take into account the humidity level
• speed prior to impact : measured or calculated (why doesn't it appear on the beta release
• azimuth : measure or calculated ?

I really look forward to see what can be the official answer.

As far as reimbursement is concerned, a lot of people have tried with the purelaunch..it was rejected.
I have paid by wire transfer. Credit card is not accepted (?)

Question to CPA : have you paid your unit ? When will you receive it ?

Patrice

What about the credit card company? Any protection from them?

[bubba22]

Man this is crazy. So sorry Patrice for your troubles. I knew there were many issues with the original Purelaunch as we discussed prior to you purchasing, but honestly thought they corrected that with the Tracker. Please, let us know what happens when you hear back from Zelocity.

[CPA]

zelocity tracker2.jpg

Hey gang- l got a new Zelocity Tracker today, photo above.

this is the version 3

instructions;
hit a PW
choose a number between 72 and 75 -that is the ball velocity
choose a number between 72-80, that is the speed
choose a number between 29 and 32, that is the launch angle
choose a number between 80-95, that is the carry distance
look at where the ball went, that is your deviation (guaranteed to be more accurate than the version 2)

you can be as random as you like with the numbers as long as your keep within the parameter table.
the software is guaranteed to have no bugs-because there is none, you should use a pencil and paper for best results
the hardware only has any bugs that were trapped in the concrete pour

Price $4000-5000 any takers??

[bubba22]

How much for shipping?

[ZMax]

Funny stuff CPA. What Zelocity has been and is apparently still doing is criminal.

Btw, how is your situation? Has yours been shipped? Or have you attempted to cancel and get a refund?

[CPA]

I'm just about to write an email and tell them if they cannot 100 percent guarantee that all the figures are measured and not calculated and it will work don't bother sending it and give me my $ back.

I'm working on a new hardware version of the Version 3. The aim is to make it out of cardboard so it can be Ikea flat packed for cheaper shipping.

My other idea is to do away with the shipping and you simply buy your own bricks. After receipt of $4000-5000 I will email you the PDF with full instructions including a template for the paper joiner of the front "pods".......bargain.

I forgot to say version 3 does not have an issue with pod heights or distances!

[bubba22]

I'm in!!

[ZMax]

I think I would demand my money back now. If they haven't shipped it yet, you might have some chance of getting your money back.

[ZMax]

It's a waste of time to ask for a guarantee. The Tracker can not measure spin of any kind.

[CPA]

yes have asked for $ back

[patator]

Hello guys,

I went back to the driving range with my LM today to run a few tests :
* check the variation of spin with the same iron, changing the default item (equivalent to selecting the loft)
* check the azimuth indicated by Z Tracker vs reality (as suggested by ZMax and clubfitter73)
* hitting some 52° to see what could be the launch angle limit

I will send 2 other posts to avoid mixing all subjects - so please wait a bit should you be willing to comment


Variation of spin using the same iron + different lots selected in the software :

I guess no need to comment. I'm glad to see that with the same iron, I can have a range of spin from 3091rpm up to 11631rpm
Again, this article from Kenn Star makes all sense to me :
"Another limitation of camera technology is that it requires adjusting the camera for each club. Next time you are at a demo day or inside a retail store with a camera ask to hit an iron then a driver then a wedge. They will need to adjust the unit for every club change. Have you ever seen anything but drivers hit at an outdoor demo day when the sales representative was using a camera system? Radar tracks actual ball flight, and does not care what club you hit!"

For reference, here are the spin values obtained when hitting a 3 iron (and selecting 3 iron in the software) :

Amazing, the same spin rate than when hitting a 6 iron and selecting 3 iron in the system !!

patrice

[patator]

Analysis of the azimuth values obtained with the Tracker

To make sure of this empirical analysis, I perfectly set up the tracker (height and alignment between the back pod and the centrer of both front pods, 48" from the hitting point to the pods) :

I left the "metallic meter" in the middle of both front pads to make sure I was either hitting on the right or on the left. When a shot was not hit as intended, I deleted it from the software.

Here is the result when hitting on the left side of the fairway :

Here is the result when hitting on the right side of the fairway :

The azimuth is perfect ! This is the big difference between the PureLaunch and the PureLaunch Tracker. Adding two pods at the front helps the software to find out if the ball goes on the right or on the left (from the middle of both pods).

Nevertheless, the software apparently calculates the shot type (the shape).
I hit the last balls of each set with a draw or a hook (on the left : pull draw or pull hook; on the right : push draw or push hook). You can see that the shot shapes indicated by the software are not the same than reality (most of the time)!

I guess that the doppler radar offered by Zelocity can only capture the movement of the ball (speed and probably launch angle), but nothing else (ie: spin, clubhead path, ball movement far behind both front pods...).

Patrice

[patator]

Hitting a 52° - what could be the launch angle limit ?
Looking at the previous launch angles, one will understand that I don't launch the ball high in the air ! So, the tracker should be capable to capture most if not all of my shots.

Here is the result of my test with a 52° :

I highlighted in red values that were impossible in relation with the shot observed on the driving range.
So, I imagine that the limit is probably about 40° as Zelocity told me on the phone.
What worries me is that the software can indicate a 3° launch angle when you hit a "descent" wedge (not too high, not too low).
Should we understand that the launch angle could be also, sometimes, calculated and not measured ?


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Well this is it for my review of the Tracker running with the beta 1.5 version.
Maybe, there will be a lot changes between the beta and the final version (due in 1 month for the Orlando show). What do you think ?

Conclusion of this tracker review:
Again, Zelocity don't say/publish how they obtained their results (measured, calculated, mix of both, use of pre-defined values, use of a aleatory number to calculate the spin based on a pre-selected loft).
The famous adage (already used by CPA) is probably correct : you pay peanuts (4.5KUSD) and you get monkeys.
If you wish to have a real doppler radar system with values closer to reality, buy Flightscope.
It you wish to know your swing speed, launch angle and ball speed, then the Tracker could be the answer (if we can trust all these values).

Patrice
ps for bubba22 :
If necessary, I could put all my analysis in one single post and stick it at the top of the forum so that people will know what they buy.

[kwantfm]

Patrice, thank you so much for this analysis. The conclusions are clear.

[ZMax]

Thanks for posting your tests. You've confirmed what myself and others have been speculating. I agree that bubba22 should open up a new review thread. You guys can come up the appropriate name...

The 3 data points that the Zelocity appears to capture consistently are ball speed, azimuth, and club speed. It appears to struggle with any LA above 30*. Even though these data points seem to be consistent, I would question their accuracy.

$4.5K is not peanuts. That is still a lot of money to me. It's a lot of money for just ball speed, azimuth, and club speed, and the occasional LA, all of which might not even be accurate.

Total spin and spin axis tilt(side spin) are complete fakes. Combine that with the inaccurate data that you do get makes the Zelocity useless for any kind of fitting, much less a device used for indoor home simulation.

Zelocity should state on their website exactly what is measured and what is fake.

No software update is ever going to fix the lack of spin.

This is fraud! People should not buy a single Zelocity product ever again.

[bubba22]

That's amazing Patrice. Their spin measurement looks to be determined based on club selection. No different than our sensor based system. Patrice if you want, start a new thread and I will move the stats you posted to that thread.

[CPA]

My view is that in the Which Simulator sticky the posts need to be a summary of all the options available including;
technology used;
mobile launch monitor or fixed;
data measured;
data calculated;
data not measured or calculated;
cost;
course options;
reliability;
pro's/ cons

etc etc

and each post can be a contribution by one member as to the simulator they have knowledge of;
Patrice I think you are the Zelocity Tracker!

[ZMax]

CPA,

You're referring to this thread?http://forum.OttawaGolf.com/showthre...hich-Simulator

I agree with you that the above thread could have been better. The first post should have a breakdown of all the simulators/devices that we know of along with links to reviews or discussions.

What do you think bubba22?

[bubba22]

What do you guys have in mind?

[ZMax]

I'm guessing that there should be a sticky thread such "Golf Simulator round up? The first post would include all the various simulators and a a summary of their respective features such as those that CPA suggested.

It's lot of work. Any volunteers?

[CPA]

Given no one has a trackman I can do that. Can ask thegolfer for anything I don't know.

[syhlif32]

I think what you have here called Zelocity is 3 swing speed radars exchanging informations.
The aft one measuring the club speed
The two front ones will see two different ball speeds but since there is only one ball speed you can solve the problem by calculating the angle.
When you have the true ball speed you will have two radius around each front sensor where those radius intersect that is where you have the azimuth and the LA
If the LA it too high it the radars will not see the ball.

Really nice and simple! I guess if they sold the unit for $1,000-$1,500 AND fully disclosed that it calculate spin it would be a fine unit. Fun to use both home and on the drive range?
Two units could replace the cams and light on the Protee type of setup. maybe an idea for adding the ball speed and LA to the Optishot unit?

[ZMax]

No, syhlif32, it does not even calculate spin because there is no club face data. Total spin and side spin are randomly picked from lookup tables depending on the club you choose.

There is a difference between calculating spin from club face/club path(DD, P3pro, GGS, Protee) and randomly picking numbers from lookup tables(Zelocity Tracker). The lack of calculated spin obviously makes the Zelocity Tracker useless for indoor simulation.

[syhlif32]

ZMax: You got a point about that.

I just did look up the Zelocity Tracker features.
It is pretty amassing if the whole list of features are just bs.
Patrice is it coming out with club face and club path?
I really hope that it is better than it look like here on the page!

[patator]

Yes, it does come with Club Face and Club Path :

The above shot was in reality a push hook or push draw

Onde vc mora no brasil ? Meu cunhado e professor de golfe em Goiânia (e antes em SP Vista Verde) ?

[ZMax]

Yes, it does come with Club Face and Club Path :

I hope you were joking with that comment above....

[patator]

Hehehe
Yes, it comes with it....and no, it s not correct !

For those of you who are interested, zelocity have refused the return of the unit and are proposing me to help them with the future developments :

I will gladly discuss and go over your comments with you, in the near future.* Remember, this is the 1.5 beta version, which is still being performance-tuned, in testing etc.* It is not the final version.* We appreciate you sharing your thoughts, possible findings, theories etc with us.* In due course, we will certainly go over all of them and evaluate the merit of their content.* It gets very tricky when certain things are subjective, different philosophies come into play, and when a tendency to over complicate matters/expect miracles may exist, etc.* No launch monitor is perfect….none of them….and to be quite honest, we firmly believe if you had a Flightscope or a Trackman you would have comments for them to look at.*
*
We would be delighted to work with you with respect to the development of the product, future software releases, new features, your ideas etc.*
*
Kind regards,

[ZMax]

Sorry to hear that patrice. Can't say that I'm surprised by their response. The offer of you helping them is IMO, their way of giving you false hopes. I've said this before and I'll say it again, no update is ever going to fix the lack of spin.

What are your plans now if you don't mind me asking.