TruGolf TruTrack vs ProTee V2.0 vs GSA PX5 for accuracy club and ball measurements

[TheGolfer]

Par2Pro - i think you sell the gc2 along with the other sims. have you placed the gc2 next to the tee for gsa and protee to see how close they are on shaping shots left and right? figure for straight shots they are going to be similar. curious if you have any feedback?

[walb0034]

That's unfortunately not possible TheGolfer, they both use IR technology and the IR would interfere with each other resulting in inaccurate data. I know this because I emailed Corey about it a few days ago.

[TheGolfer]

Thanks, didn't realize GC2 uses IR technology. Looking on their website they say they use 2 Stereoscopic high-speed digital cameras to measure spin, speed, and LA. Can you point me toward where they talk about the IR. Thanks.

[ZMax]

That's unfortunately not possible TheGolfer, they both use IR technology and the IR would interfere with each other resulting in inaccurate data. I know this because I emailed Corey about it a few days ago.

GGS PX2 and Protee both use shadow technology, not IR. Does the GC2 use IR or LED to illuminate the ball?

[noobie]

GC2 has an Infrared Flash Module listed as a replacement part on their brochure so they must use IR.

[ZMax]

Thanks noobie. I'm no expert on IR light but it should not interfere with the PX2 or Protee sensors. Perhaps Cory was referring to the DD or P3pro.

[JJSmith]

Protee and gsa are both using IR technology. These infrared sensors are triggered by breaking the light, which is done by shadow.

[ZMax]

True but there are no emitters like with the reflective IR's of DD or P3pro. The PX2 and Protee should not interfere with the GC2 and I can't see the GC's IR flash interfering with the shadows. Is my thinking wrong here?

[JJSmith]

You're right. They are all receivers, no emitters. There is slight chance that it will interfere. A flash will make a black shadow turn grey and it might create extra shadows from the ball or club at impact, which will then trigger sensors you don't want to trigger. On the other hand the flash is triggered at impact by sound. Sound is much slower than light, so the sensors will already have the club data before the flash kicks in.

[walb0034]

Maybe corey could try it for us and settle the debate Either way, I ordered a GC2 today after much deliberation based on 1. accuracy 2. portability and 3. ease of use Protee was a very very close #2, much better value, but portability is VERY important to me.

[4quarters]

All 3 are a really good solution for the homeowner. I have not tried the ProTee, but as for the GSA and TruGolf, both of those are really good. If I was you, I would go with price. All the rest, you can research for a lifetime. It is like shopping for a Mercedes Benz on a budget. Neither of them are the Dancin Dogg. Both TruGolf and GSA are great systems.

Good luck.

Can anyone help comparing the accuracy of these three (TruTrack, ProTee, GSA PX5)?

Looking to pull the trigger any day but its very hard to cut through the marketing BS and compare the real data.

Background - Looking to use the sim as a teaching aid with very good golfers. Need to be able to hit draws, cuts, knock downs, lobs, etc. Ie more of a tool versus a game.

I understand each has limitations when compared to the GSA CX5 5 camera system that is ultra accurate for club and ball measurements but want to quantify that difference and understand what I am giving up or not in accuracy for cost.

Understand that all three calculate club head measurements and ball speed, path, LA but ALL THREE also estimate ball spin and spin axis. Curious to see if anyone is more accurate with ball spin estimates.

Also understand that TruGolf uses E6 software and the other two RedChain. Just looking for inputs on this thread on sensor measurement accuracy and error rather than software or pricing comparisons.

Any help is appreciated.

TruGolf TruTrack:
* http://www.trugolf.com/
* New Technique Prestige model is shipping next week- small portable sim in a box
* Convenient that all components are prepacked and easy to setup but the trade off is portable frame / netting with very small sim screen and components are not tailored or optimized for your specific setting (perhaps also tradeoff on accuracy but can't get any data to compare)
* TruTrack looks like its a sensor matt for club head measurements and sonic triangulation for ball path, speed, LA when it hits the screen.
* Ball spin and spin axis is estimated (same for all three options)
* From the picture it looks like there are not many sensors on the sensor matt (concern) compared with the GSA PX2 96 sensor insert (same one used in GSA PX5) but it may be that the ball track sensors are removed since ball track is done via sonic triangulation?
* For this kind of money it would be a shame to find out that the sensors are similar to DD or P3Pro (not bad as long you understand what you are getting ahead of time but with TruGolf no data is offered just "very accurate and independently tested" so their marketing the high accuracy but not providing the data (concern)
* Need to hit off the same spot on the sensor matt and believe you need a shot to hit the screen to register (curious how lob, flop, and sand shots register then?)

GSA PX5
* http://www.golfsimfactory.com/ElectronicSensors.htm
* Looks like the PX5 is their PX2 96 sensor matt for club head measurements and hCam and vCam for both launch angle, ball path, and speed.
* Spin is estimated
* The camera for ball path, spin, and launch angle are ~ 5 feet from screen so in theory should have more resolution / accuracy versus a similar system that measures right after the ball position?
* I know high speed cameras are very accurate since they don't sample - they measure exactly what the see
* Curious on the accuracy compared to sonic triangulation?
* Martin does publish the 96 sensors for PX2 matt and accuracy of club head measurements
* with the two camera system you can choose to hit anywhere off the sensor matt (ie sand, rough inserts) and both cameras pick up ball measuremetns but you just give up club head measuremetns for swing analysis when you hit those shots if you choose (can still hit them off the sensor matt if you choose)

ProTee V2.0
* http://www.protee-united.com/
* DJ (marketer?) and Martin (inventor / engineer?) went seperate paths and DJ is selling single unit through Protee
* Similar to TruGolf hard to get your hands on real data for accuracy
* As you would expect it looks very similar to GSA products but ...
* Don't know for sure but it looks like the GSA PX2 sensor matt but heard the launch angle camera is like a web cam. Believe this is fairly close to after you hit the shot versus GSA further away?
* This is not fact but I would guess it is a PX2 matt with a web cam
* Believe the ball path / speed sensors are also in the same matt right after you hit it so in theory probably has less resolution / accuracy from a similar system that has these sensors farther away?
* TruGolf says the Trutrack unit in the Technique models is the same unit in the high end fully enclosed systems (so if you are familiar wtih their newport, signature, etc its the same technology sensors)

[ZMax]

I am very familiar with all 3, I actually have all 3 in my showroom. If I was you, I would go with either the TruGolf Technique $6995, best bang for your buck. But if you want the best ball and club information, go with the GSA 2 camera, trigger, and sensor mat. That is a lot of information collected, and a top off will read as a top off.

That is not necessarily what will happen with the TruGolf, but TruGolf has their act together better than GSA. ProTee, he really needs to get rid of the club selection aspect.

Good luck.

I didn't know the Technique was available yet. $6999 including screen, net, mat, and projector is tough to beat, but the software is the E6 Lite with just 10 courses.

Can you give us a little review comparing E6 Lite, E6, and GSA golf/Protee Play? Can I assume that use a 1080p projector and run all the above software at 1080p?

[4quarters]

It is coming available later this month. It is a great buy at $6995. Cannot give a review on the e6Lite yet, as it is not released yet. e6 is a good software with brand name courses. GSA courses are really, really nice. However, they lack the name brand courses, and some of the game modes, ex. scramble.

For the homeowner, I totally recommend either the GSA 2 cameras, trigger, and if you want to really shape shots, get the sensor mat too -OR- the TruGolf Technique ($6995), when deciding, remember to take into consideration taking a shot and it reading as what it did or not. That is where the GSA pulls out front, because if you mess the shot up, that is what happens on the screen (maybe you do not want that, haha). The TruGolf product is good, but it tends to not register a top off, dribble, etc... Not a lot, but I mainly sell to commercial entities, and when you are paying $35 - $44 for an hour, you want all shots to reflect as close to what would happen on a real course. In summary, TruGolf has a good product, and is at the top of the pile for customer service - be sure to use a local dealer so that you have manufacturer and dealer on call to help you. In summary, GSA products are rivaling aboutGolf, once they get their operation to a mass production level, watch out. ProTee, he has a little bit of both, but when you have to select your club, it seems to rudimentary, however, he seems to have his act together. Like I said, all are a good choice, if it was my $7,000 - $9,000, as a residential buyer, I would go with the GSA, because of the expandability. My only caveat is that if you are not handy, then go with TruGolf.

[ZMax]

Well, GSA has brand name courses but they just can't use the real names. I've since changed the names to match the real ones so it's not a problem any more.

As for selecting the club, GSA will pick the club for you but depending on your distances, it might be a club off. So, you might still have to select the correct club.

So, how would you compare E6 to GSA, as far as graphics quality. My one and only experience with the E6 was on Trugolf's Premium simulator and I was not impressed by the graphics. It might have been because it was not running in 1080p.

I have the option to add E6 to my GGS/GSA system.

[bubba22]

I don't understand. Protee will also select a club. With GSA and TrueGolf you still have to tell it what club, right?

[ZMax]

I don't understand. Protee will also select a club. With GSA and TrueGolf you still have to tell it what club, right?

Not with Trugolf,as far as I can remember, but you have the option to tell it your loft when chipping or pitching.

[bubba22]

Ok. Thought so.

[TheGolfer]

Still owe a posting on my testing results but I have beenn behind the curve with work and trying to get all the components ordered due to lead times. Once everything is in the queue and I come up for are I will share. Just a quick summary based on posting above since it looks like someone is considering one of these.

When I tested Trugolf newport using their trutrack sensor mat and sonic triangulation (same as their new technique being shipped as of Oct) it did track what club you were hitting. It had a default so you didn't need to enter it. When you were chipping / pitching and a shot did not "register" which it uses sonic triangulation from screen impact to determine launch angle, etc it would still play the shot but default to the club to get an estimated loft to estimate the LA. My understand was it only used this club information for thse shots. For the money I was not impressed with this "feature". Overall accuracy comprison along wih shaped shots not even close to GC2 by foresight which I tested also that measures spin.

The company is definitenly leading the front for providing a complete sim in the box for residental settings but based on what I have seen its clientel are more looking for "entertainment" versus "accuracy" and a learning tool. Didn't learn this until after testing. If you are not overlly obssessedd with spin and accuracy and looking just to have something for entertainment the technique model does look very convenient where the entire system can be setup in about 1 hour since you attach everything to the protable frame - I saw the newport setup in about 1 hour.

As you can see when I started this thread out was not considering GC2 because I heard all the others were just as accurate and being more money I was not looking at it. As I tested 4 different systems including AboutGolf all had their plus / miinues but they all did not accurately measure spin and simulate shaped shots compared to what happens outdoors from my perspective. I was dissapointed. Heard about GC2 from a couple of sticks then and they publish their error tolerances on their website for ball speed, back spin, side spin, etc on their website since most of their customers are fitters. No other sim company publishs ball spin, speed, LA error tolerances. Lots availabe to test since they are converting golfsmiths, dicks, golfwarehouses, one more I learned last night just can't rember the name to the GC2 fitting/sim system. Very good tolerances for me. Tested and was not even close to the others I tested. Good with shaped shots.

As a bonus GC2 also has a learning / fitting module. It is great if you are like me who thinks a fun friday night is spending a couple hours testing shafts on launch monitors you can group shots, clubs, balls and measure each along with group averages for key metrics like back spin, side spin, ball speed, launch angle, etc.

Purchased unit for: $5995 unit, $1495 fitting / learning center + 1 course, champions tour package (12 courses) $995, shipping $65

Only reco is test before you buy to make sure it meets your expectations.

Good luck, Regards

[bubba22]

Once again, lets have the reviews. We can all see that you are big on the GC2. Remember folks, it is not the only sim out there. There are msany options. Protee and GSA are constantly improving. The most recent ProTee update with the ball cam has been great. A spin cam will probably be developed by ProTee and GSA in the near future. In any event lets have the reviews that you keep promising. We need to understand what you were testing. Sounds like you testedt he old radar About golf system and not the newer cam system.

[ZMax]

Found out a few days ago that there's an ignore feature in the forum. Works great.

[jagmanjoe]

Found out a few days ago that there's an ignore feature in the forum. Works great.

LOL -- Having a Mastercard to pay for things is great but having ZMax comments available -- PRICELESS!!

[psace]

TheGolfer

Not to be offensive, but I think what Zmax is saying and others are thinking is that your information is getting very repetitive. We heard you the first time and appreciate your comments, but please don't drown us in it! All comments are appreciated, to a point.

[bubba22]

Had a chance to review the Trutrack Prestige simulator today. The sim does bost a very portable assemply and takes an hour to setup. the software is E6 which I am familiar with. The Truetrack has 3 sensor rows and the ball is hit between the 1st and second row. I am not sure what the first row measures, the ball I assume? the projector is on the floor in front. The screen is nice and the enclosure very good.

The accuracy seemed very good in reading the draws, fades and for the launch angle as well. Interesting enough, you don't need to select the club for your shot!!! I am not sure how it basis the spin but club selection is not needed. I suspect that in the background, the sim recommends a certain loft range for a shot. So lets say you are 150 from the hole it recommends a 7 iron loft. Whether you hit a 6, 7 or 8 iron the spin numbers will be that of a 7 iron and the distance will be based on your club and ball speed. Any thoughts here on this guys?

They do recommend club selection on the chips shots based on the loft. When I played with the loft selection and used different clubs (wedge to 3 iron) to chip, I found no difference. The sim seems to pick up launch nagled shots with short chips and flop shots well enough.

Overall not bad and similair to the ProTee/GSA. I will retest again when I get a chance.

[ZMax]

That is interesting that the projector is on the floor. Was it protected by a piece of plexi glass? Do you know what resolution the Projector was displaying E6 at?

The Truetrack that I played on had me hit the ball from just pass the first row towards the screen, but putt with the ball behind the last row. How did you putt on the Prestige?

As for club selection, I think you're right about them using just the club and ball speed.

So the loft selection for chipping didn't make a difference? How did the Prestige pick up the correct LA when chipping since most of the time, the ball will be on it's decent as hit the screen? Did you see where the 3 microphones were that make up the sonic triangulation system?

[bubba22]

The projector was on the floor. It is protected by a plexiglass. It is where that part sticks out from the platform. It kinda is sloped upwards a few degrees so when putting, you are putting uphill. The resolution looked 720.

You hit between the first and last 2 rows. Not sure what the first row measures? The ball I assume? Putting is behind the last row as you say.

The club selection I think is as we say. We had 133 to the hole and you could hit any club. It seemed to adjust it depending on the club and ball speed. Good idea really!!

The mics were well hidden in the enclosure. I really am puzzled how it picked up launch angle for the chip shots. I tried fooling it by selecting 5 degres of loft (probably a 2 iron) and hit a 64 degree wedge and the ball responded with a high launch. Even short chips were ok. I need to go back and try some more stuff.

[bubba22]

The only other thing is whether the sonic triangulation picks up the sound movement of the ball and not just the impact on the screen? That may explain its tracking the ball launch for those short shots???

[TheGolfer]

was this the new technique prestige or the older newport that is also portable? i was looking at the technique prestige. the newport has the projector on the ground with a mirror. i thought they were changing the technique prestige to have projector on top. both use the same trutrack technology with no change in that. they will do very well in the market with a all in one sim option. my perception its closer to the gaming / entertainment side versus training / teaching side.

i tested it for a few hours. it seems to be in the same category as gsa / protee but a very cleavor all in one system to simpify things. setup time is amazing. watched it also setup in 45 minutes for everything - projectors, etc. the technique prestige uses an all in one comptuer for both computer and touch screen so you don't have a seperate touch screen.

i found that straight shots were ok, carry was off for me some. don't remember roll being as exagerrated as the redchain softwar thought, but i think that was adjustable. e. it had problems consistently doing draws, fades. they start on the right path but the ball only came back properly 1 out of 4-5 times. could be functino of trutrack not measuring spin or E6 or both. when i checked with them to see if there were any errors they did say it is working normally.

it uses sonic triangulation with the microphones on the left, center, right based on where it hits the screen to determine LA. i tested shots that don't hit the screen like short chips and it worked. they told me that if it doesn't get a response from the sonic triangulation for these shots you can enter in the club for club loft or if you don't it uses a default.

several shots did not register which was annoying. for putting you had to put through the sensor pads so the ball bounced some. you have 3 options to change the gain of the microphones depending on the amount of ambient noise there is - they said they do have problems in trade show environments because of that.

overall they are going to do very well for the market not hung up about accuracy and the all-in-one kit is very actractive.

had initial nominal setup issues since the owner was new with it. totally understandable. they have excellent technical support like a real company. he got stuck with the setup called and immediately had access to tech support that were very knowledgeable about the hardware and software and literally stepped him through the issues. not that i want to be in a position needing tech support but this was good. no emails, no voice mails just picked up the phone and they have staffed avaialble realtime for owners.

they also have two other technique models for 7k and i think 9k that come with e6 lite not e6 full edition and you provide your own projector. the prestige has everything for 14995 and e6 full edition with ~ 22 courses. sounds expensive but when you add all the components up its close. certainly paying a premium for the conveninece of a complete system integrated within a portable frame.

i though i would have a problem with the small screen size since i was looking for a 14 x 8. it didn't bother me as much as i thought it wuold.

i found the computer that they used or e6 was a little choppy / blocky on flybys.

positives
- great setup if you are not hung up on accuracy and looking for easy setup.
- all in one is needed in this industry to make things easier and expand potential market
- excellent technical support available when you need it (that i witnessed)


negatives
- shaped shots not consistent / accuracy ok but not the same as gc2
- doesn't measure spin
- some shots dont register
- don't like the idea of the computer needing to know or estimate what club you are using it should just take the ball launch conditions
- small screen (relative to custom size) but still looks decent since you are closer to the screen (HD movies is a different story though)
- if you want to double yoru golf studio as a home cinema room then the components / custom route is better

overall this product will sell. i can see a large part of the market thinking the accuracy is good enough and with the < 1 hour complete setup they definitely have something there.

when i did my research i was leaning towrd that until i tested. i personnaly was not happy with the accuracy and shaped shots but again i am not speaking for all golfers. when i tested the gc2 the accuracy aspect was far better.

[ZMax]

When you go back, try selecting the highest loft then chip a runner on the floor. See how it looks on the simulation and what gets reports as the LA.

Btw, did you take any pictures?

[ZMax]

The only other thing is whether the sonic triangulation picks up the sound movement of the ball and not just the impact on the screen? That may explain its tracking the ball launch for those short shots???

No, it has to be sound of the ball impacting the screen.

[bubba22]

You are right with most points. the biggest negative for the GC2 in a comercial setting is the left/right players. I don't see how it can be done with ease and convenience. The place I tested looked hard at the GC2 and decided on the Trugolf which was a smart idea given their setup. The setup is portable and easy with the Truegolf. I suspect other companies will take note and start something like this. Easily done. The place I went has an indoor Flightscope so I am hoping to have the Flightscope used mano on mano with the Truegolf once I get a chance. All in all though it works well. Myself and the Pro (scratch) as well as a 3 handicap used it and felt it to be accurate. I found it no more accurate than my Protee. The system like I said doesn't require that you place the club being used unless it is a putter. Ilike that feature.