bertuzzi

[covanant]

Bertuzzi,another blow for the N.H.L?

[NoBack]

yep
they should have thrown away the key

[EDSGOLF]

He'll end up paying $ in the civil suit to Moore.

[Colby]

Why would it be a blow to the NHL? The NHL has its own internal justice and Bertuzzi is still paying that price. It's more a failure in the justice system to have such a soft outcome.

As for the civil suit, it's going to be a tough fight as to where Steve Moore's injuries occurred. Was it the hit? Bertuzzi landing on him? Or the pile-up? If the trial is in the US, the payout could be bigger.

I have bigger issues with the civil suit. Where does it stop? Say there is a fight during a game and someone is seriously injured or concussed and their career is over. Will there be a civil suit? Will the civil suit stop players from performing certain actions during the game? If it's big enough, maybe guys are afraid to bodycheck? What happens if the guy they bodycheck lands funny and breaks their neck? Or gets hit in the eye with a puck, or stick? I think the civil suit won't do any good for the game, although Steve Moore needs to be properly compensated. However does that compensation come from disability, or part of Bertuzzi's pay. Maybe have Bertuzzi pay Moore's salary for the time he is unable to play and compensate it until he earns what he was.

[broken27]

Colby - Moore is an unrestricted free agent without compensation, so Bertuzzi would have to pay $0 if ordered to pay Moore's salary.

Personally, I think it's a joke that Bertuzzi (and Heatley likely soon as well) is getting away with this. His comments about being willing to do community service made me laugh. Of course you're willing you idiot! It's gotta be better than the jail time you rightly deserved.

This is a blackmark on the NHL, but only in a PR sense. At a time when fans are unable to enjoy the sport they love, reading about players being treated differently than John Q. Public is bad.

Dan

[g8r]

My personal feeling is that this never should have gone to the criminal side in the first place. This is NOT the same as me walking down the street and blindsiding someone in the back of the head. Cheapshots ARE part of the game, and it's the NHL's job to enforce the rules of the game to prevent this type of thing from occuring and re-occuring. IMHO, Bertuzzi got what he deserved, a long suspension (I think it should continue indefinately) and Moore SHOULD take this to civil court, and SHOULD be awarded a large settlement, but as for criminal charges and jail time, I don't believe it was necessary.

[g8r]

This just in: Moore will not file civil suit against Bertuzzi, unless doctors tell him his career is over.
from CBC sports: http://www.cbc.ca/story/sports/natio...ore041223.html

CBC SPORTS ONLINE - Steve Moore only wants to play hockey again and says he will not file a civil suit against his on-ice attacker, Todd Bertuzzi, unless doctors tell him his NHL career is over.

"The attack has been bad for our game," he said in Toronto Thursday. "I don't want to be the cause for any more negativity to the NHL.

"My biggest hope is that there's a serious evaluation of preventing this from happening again. There's been so much damage to the game.

"When you talk to people who don't know the game, the only thing you hear about hockey is that it's so violent."

Speaking for the first time in 10 months, Moore added that he was disappointed with the plea bargain deal the British Columbia Crown struck with Bertuzzi over his aggressive on-ice hit against Moore in a March 8 Colorado-Vancouver game.

The hit left Moore with three broken vertebrae and a concussion.

On Wednesday, Bertuzzi pleaded guilty to assault causing bodily harm in exchange for a conditional discharge that carries no chance of a criminal record.

His sentence included 80 hours of public service and one year of probation.

Moore heard about the deal through the media and did not have time to fly to Vancouver to give his impact statement in person – a right the B.C. Crown had assured him he would have.

"Steve is not passing judgement on the plea bargain or sentence," said Moore's lawyer, Tim Danson. "He just wanted to be heard.

"He wasn't even in court. The very person who pulled the carpet under his feet was the same person reading his statement."

Danson said he asked the B.C. Attorney General to investigate why the plea bargain was allowed to proceed without Moore present in the courtroom.

But Crown spokesman Geoff Gaul says his office did everything it could to have Moore attend the Bertuzzi hearing.

"We offered at our expense to fly Mr. Moore out here. We offered to look into a video-conferencing link to have Mr. Moore attend via video-conferencing."

Moore had refused all interview requests since the March attack. His only other public appearance came on March 29, when he wore a neck brace during a news conference in Denver.

"As long as lessons are learned and actions are taking from this happening again, I think you've got the point," Moore said.

He said all of his effort and energy has been devoted to getting back in game shape.

Despite the hours of therapy Moore has undergone every day since the incident, doctors have not been able to tell him for certain when, or if, he'll play again.

Moore said he has never received a personal or private apology from Bertuzzi. An apology was played on video to the court on Wednesday.

With the criminal proceedings against Bertuzzi now out of the way, the NHL said it expects Bertuzzi to ask for a quick hearing to reinstate his playing status.

The league suspended him for the rest of the season and playoffs for the incident.

The hearing might pave the way for Bertuzzi to start playing in Europe.

[el tigre]

Why would it be a blow to the NHL? The NHL has its own internal justice and Bertuzzi is still paying that price. It's more a failure in the justice system to have such a soft outcome.

As for the civil suit, it's going to be a tough fight as to where Steve Moore's injuries occurred. Was it the hit? Bertuzzi landing on him? Or the pile-up? If the trial is in the US, the payout could be bigger.

Whatever your opinion on the sentence that Bertuzzi received, the fact that he pleaded guilty to criminal assault means that proving liability in a civil suit is a no-brainer. In essence, Bertuzzi has already admitted in court that it was his fault. The only real question is the amount of $$$.

Moore does not have damage to his spinal cord, so he could recover well enough to play in the NHL again. However, his symptoms of post-concussion syndrome are severe enough that his NHL career could also be over. Only time will tell. His lawyers are basically waiting until they know. It will probably be at least six months to a year before a civil suit is filed (EDIT: if at all considering Moore's statement above). With the NHL lockout, Bettman is in no rush to make a decision either. That probably won't happen until the summer.

The injuries happened in a game in Vancouver, so any civil suit will almost certainly have to be filed there.

[Andru]

Why would it be a blow to the NHL? The NHL has its own internal justice and Bertuzzi is still paying that price. It's more a failure in the justice system to have such a soft outcome.

As for the civil suit, it's going to be a tough fight as to where Steve Moore's injuries occurred. Was it the hit? Bertuzzi landing on him? Or the pile-up? If the trial is in the US, the payout could be bigger.

I have bigger issues with the civil suit. Where does it stop? Say there is a fight during a game and someone is seriously injured or concussed and their career is over. Will there be a civil suit? Will the civil suit stop players from performing certain actions during the game? If it's big enough, maybe guys are afraid to bodycheck? What happens if the guy they bodycheck lands funny and breaks their neck? Or gets hit in the eye with a puck, or stick? I think the civil suit won't do any good for the game, although Steve Moore needs to be properly compensated. However does that compensation come from disability, or part of Bertuzzi's pay. Maybe have Bertuzzi pay Moore's salary for the time he is unable to play and compensate it until he earns what he was.

HAHA Colby There's a difference between everything you mentioned and the premeditated stalking and eventual attack on Steve Moore.

I've heard the civil suit is easy since Bertuzzi admitting guilt has also admitted his actions caused Steve Moores injuries.

The rest isn't directed at you colby it's a general contribution to the thread.

Bertuzzi got off EASY. If you'd like to experiment Walk up to a colleague and pound them in head so hard that they fall over suffer a massive concussion and crack a vertebrae. I'm curious how much "community service time" you'll have to do after you've served your jail time.

I'm glad the police got involved. Professional sports isn't this bubble world where the laws of the land don't apply. I'm growing bitter and cold towards pro sports everyday. The only pro sports I truly enjoy are Football and Golf.

[g8r]

If you'd like to experiment Walk up to a colleague and pound them in head so hard that they fall over suffer a massive concussion and crack a vertebrae. I'm curious how much "community service time" you'll have to do after you've served your jail time.

There is a difference in what you describe above....maybe your office has Terry Tate Office Linebacker (http://www.milkandcookies.com/keywords/terrytate/) patrolling the halls, but in mine, it is not a common occurence (nor acceptable) to hit someone agains the cubicle walls if they try to take my note pad or files. The pro sports world is a different workplace where physical contact between employees is accepted, encouraged and regulated. You can't draw direct comparisons to an office situation.

[jeffc]

the question is where does the line need to be drawn? what if Bertuzzi paralysed him? What if he killed him? Don't laugh it could have happened. Then would you say the courts shouldn't be involved? My question is if the courts did decide to get involved, why let him off so easy? Why not give Moore his day in court? Why move the date up 2 weeks so he couldn't attend? Remember, he is the victim here, not Bertuzzi.

[Colby]

Andru, in response to both you and el tigre, Bertuzzi pleased guilty to assaulting Moore. That doesn't mean that the punch caused all of the damage that occured. That would still have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and I think that would be a long expensive road.

The premeditated stalking has nothing to do with a possibility of future civil suits. If Moore was to sue and made a lot of money, what will happen in the future in other cases. People are suing MacDonald's because they spill hot coffee on themselves. There is no end to greed, and I think Moore took a brave route.

[covanant]

the one thing that bothers me the most is,had moore gotten up unhurt,bertuzzi may have only received a 5 or 10 minute misconduct and maybe a game. should we prosecute only
when an athlete is injured? I dont think the n.h.l is being strict enough.

[EDSGOLF]

If Moore wins money from the civil suit.......the sport of Boxing will no longer exist....or else everybody will sue eachother in that sport.

[el tigre]

There is a difference in what you describe above.... The pro sports world is a different workplace where physical contact between employees is accepted, encouraged and regulated. You can't draw direct comparisons to an office situation.

Yes, there is a difference - but not as much as you think. In pro sports, you have both implied and explicit consent to a certain level of physical contact consistent with the demands of that sport. Obviously, in boxing, hockey and football the implied consent is much greater than in other sports like soccer or tennis. But that doesn't mean there is consent for everything. There is a line to be drawn somewhere, and that line will be different for every sport.

IMHO, the only time the criminal justice system will even consider getting involved is where there is obviously a deliberate attempt to injure. In hockey that is the most serious penalty in the book, and it was handed out in both the Bertuzzi and McSorley incidents.

[el tigre]

Andru, in response to both you and el tigre, Bertuzzi pleased guilty to assaulting Moore. That doesn't mean that the punch caused all of the damage that occured. That would still have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and I think that would be a long expensive road.

First of all, "proof beyond reasonable doubt" is only required in criminal cases. In a civil case the burdon of proof is much less - the judge/jury decides based on the "balance of probabilities".

Secondly, it is irrelevant whether the punch or the fall caused the injuries because Bertuzzi was the cause of both. The only issue would have been whether there was implied consent by Moore to the level of violence that took place. Now that Bertuzzi has pleaded guilty of assault, that issue has already been decided in Moore's favour.

[Andru]

Andru, in response to both you and el tigre, Bertuzzi pleased guilty to assaulting Moore. That doesn't mean that the punch caused all of the damage that occured. That would still have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt, and I think that would be a long expensive road.

You don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in a civil case.

[Andru]

If Moore wins money from the civil suit.......the sport of Boxing will no longer exist....or else everybody will sue eachother in that sport.

That's ridiculous, and you know it. Boxing the sport is based on striking your opponent with covered hands.

[Andru]

the one thing that bothers me the most is,had moore gotten up unhurt,bertuzzi may have only received a 5 or 10 minute misconduct and maybe a game. should we prosecute only
when an athlete is injured? I dont think the n.h.l is being strict enough.

Geez "if that guy hadn't died when I struck his car while driving drunk I would only be facing dangerous driving instead of second degree manslaughter. The punishment should represent the damage caused. If Steve Moore gets up and walks away, then Todd Bertuzzi didn't hit hime as hard therefore does not deserve a harsh punishment.

[Colby]

You don't need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt in a civil case.

Let me explain what I meant.

It's pretty obvious that an assault took place. Enough cameras filmed it, and there were enough witnesses.

What hasn't been proven, that I am aware of, is what caused the injuries. Was it the punch? Bertuzzi landing on him, or the dog pile that happened soon after. If it was the dogpile, then everyone would have to be named in the suit. If it were just Bertuzzi named, I'm sure that a competent lawyer can cause enough doubt as to when the actual injury took place to insulate Bertuzzi from a big financial loss.

Again, the big issue was the fact that the plea bargain took place, and the sentance was as minimal as it turned out to be.

[el tigre]

What hasn't been proven, that I am aware of, is what caused the injuries. Was it the punch? Bertuzzi landing on him, or the dog pile that happened soon after.

Colby, all I can say is that there is absolutely no doubt WHO caused the injuries. There is some doubt whether it was Bertuzzi punching him or Bertuzzi driving him to the ice that caused the injuries, but it doesn't matter because Bertuzzi caused both. If you shoot someone with a shotgun and the force of the blast blows him over a cliff, you can't get away with murder claiming it was the fall that killed him. Besides, even the pile-up is Bertuzzi's fault.

Now that he has plead guilty, Bertuzzi cannot claim there was implied consent. The case is a lock, and the only issue is damages. The lockout is a lucky break for Bertuzzi, because Moore wouldn't be earning a salary this season anyway so there is no lost income there. So it will all be decided next summer.

[Colby]

Colby, all I can say is that there is absolutely no doubt WHO caused the injuries. There is some doubt whether it was Bertuzzi punching him or Bertuzzi driving him to the ice that caused the injuries, but it doesn't matter because Bertuzzi caused both. If you shoot someone with a shotgun and the force of the blast blows him over a cliff, you can't get away with murder claiming it was the fall that killed him. Besides, even the pile-up is Bertuzzi's fault.

Now that he has plead guilty, Bertuzzi cannot claim there was implied consent. The case is a lock, and the only issue is damages. The lockout is a lucky break for Bertuzzi, because Moore wouldn't be earning a salary this season anyway so there is no lost income there. So it will all be decided next summer.

Unless you have read something I haven't, all we know by the films is that Bertuzzi started the chain of events that resulted in Moore's injuries. It appears in the films that Moore was unconsious when he hit the ice, so Bertuzzi's actions knocked him out. Nothing in the plea bargain said to what extent the bodily harm was. Just that there was an assult that caused bodily harm. It will take a team of doctors and lawyers to try and sway a jury that Bertuzzi caused or did not cause all of the injuries. That he caused some sort of injury is not in doubt. It's the level of injury determined in the civil case that will be the driving force behind the compensation claim.

And if there is a civil suit, Bertuzzi won't be the only one named. Why did Marc Crawford have him out there. The scum-sucking lawyers will probably name everyone they can in the suit, including the Canucks organization, the GM, maybe even the refs and linesmen on the ice for not preventing this. If the camera man could follow Bertuzzi's stalking and attack on Moore, surely one of the four guys on the ice could have also.

As for calling the pileup Bertuzzi's fault is a little grey. He didn't ask for all of the guys to jump on top, they did that of their own free will. They could have just grabbed Bertuzzi and pulled him off instead of jumping on.

[Miracle]

All i have to say is Bertuzzi didn't break Moores neck. It was the pile up that ocured after that did. Someone should tell Moore that so he doesnt sound like a fool the next time he speaks in public

[jimrobin]

...

[BC MIST]

All i have to say is Bertuzzi didn't break Moores neck. It was the pile up that ocured after that did.

And your source of this fact is ???

The Moore/Bertuzzi incident is just another classic example of what is wrong with NHL hockey.

Fighting and retaliation is not part of the game, but is permitted to go on because of it's entertainment value to the blood thristy vampires who buy the tickets for this reason only. If the rules of the game, as they presently exist, were strictly enforced, then a lot of this junk would disappear. If a player is injured because of an opponent's committing an infraction and heavy fines and significant suspensions resulted, then again, the flow of the game would change and incidents would diminish.

Expansion has reduced the number of quality players on each roster, so reverting back to a dozen teams, getting rid of the goons who can only clutch, hold and fight, and allowing those who can skate, pass and shoot to dominate, would return hockey to being the most exciting game in the world, when it is played properly.

While the Bertuzzi incident was ugly, the worst that I have ever seen occurred just after the famouis Wayne Maki, Ted Green incident at the Civic Center many years ago.
If anyone recalls, as Maki was skating toward the west end doors, the great role model Bobby Orr, chased after Maki, gripped his stick like a golf club and with a vicious over hand swing, tried to hit Maki in the head. Fortunatley, the stick hit the closing glass doors. Had it hit Maki, it would have undoubtedly killed him. And then what?
20 game suspension? $10,000 fine. 80 hours community service.
NHL hockey is a joke.

[Miracle]

[QUOTE=BC MIST]And your source of this fact is ???


I dont need a source all you need to see this is two working eyes.

[BC MIST]

[QUOTE=Miracle]

And your source of this fact is ???


I dont need a source all you need to see this is two working eyes.

My eyes are working just fine, thank you, and like most, we see the neck injury being caused by Bertuzzi.

"Things are not always as they appear to be."

[Miracle]

My eyes are working just fine, thank you, and like most, we see the neck injury being caused by Bertuzzi.

"Things are not always as they appear to be."

Bertuzzi punched him in the face his head turned then all Moores genius teammates piled on with Moore's neck in a awkward postioion and it's fairly clear thats what broke the vertabraes. Each of those guys easily were 180lbs minimum so times that by 5 and think about it.

[el tigre]

Bertuzzi punched him in the face his head turned then all Moores genius teammates piled on with Moore's neck in a awkward postioion and it's fairly clear thats what broke the vertabraes. Each of those guys easily were 180lbs minimum so times that by 5 and think about it.

1) Pileups are quite common in football, and injuries rarely occur - certainly not the kind of serious injury Bertuzzi sustained.

2) Punches to the face are quite common in boxing, and when done with full force can often result in a concussion and other serious injuries, especially when the recipient is caught by surprise. At least boxing is "civilized" enough that they don't mix heavyweights with lightweights.

3) Landing hard on the ground often happens during a quarterback sack in football, and can often result in a concussion and other serious injuries, especially when the recipient is caught by surprise and/or lands head first.

Since Bertuzzi did both 2) and 3), it is rather obvious that he caused Moore's injuries. His lawyers aren't idiots - if there was any doubt then he would not have plead guilty to assault. Since Bertuzzi was attempting to continue punching the unconcious Moore after he landed on top of him, the Avalanche teammates who prevented Beruzzi from doing so may have saved Moore's life. Nothing foolish there.