handicapping from different tees

[khali127]

I am unclear on how handicaps are calculated and was looking for an "Idiot's guide to Handicapping" .

How does playing from different tee boxes affect your index?

Is a 10hdcp for a player who plays from the whites the same as a 10 from a player who plays from the tips? If they play a match from their respective tees then it is square?

What if these two players decide to play the blue middle tees together, how to adjust?

If a 10 hdcp who plays the black tees moves up to the white tees what should adjustment be and visa versa if 10 from whites moves back?

[leftylucas]

The handicapping section on the menu on the left is pretty good and this forum has plenty of threads that answers your questions. In essence I believe a 10 is 10 no matter where you play from. If he usually plays from different tees then he can still go to the longer or more difficult tee and get a 1 or 2 stroke advantage from a 10 who plays the whites depending on the slope of each tee.

[khali127]

So basically a 10 is a 10 is a 10? I would think the 10 who plays from the back tees is a better player than the guy who plays from the whites so if he moves up to play then his index should drop based on the rating of the course etc...

A related question... two years ago I played from the white tees and had a handicap 8-10. This year I have played only the blue tees at the same courses and my handicap has stayed the same from 8-10. Have I improved or stayed the same? I ask this because it relates to tournament play based on a broad hdcp index.

[nokids]

So basically a 10 is a 10 is a 10? I would think the 10 who plays from the back tees is a better player than the guy who plays from the whites so if he moves up to play then his index should drop based on the rating of the course etc...

I think both players are equal because let's say scoring 84 at Stonebridge from the tips makes you a 10, if you move up to the whites you have to score 78 to be a 10.

[jvincent]

To properly have this discussion you need to use the right terms.

Your scores are used to determine your handicap factor. This is a number with a decimal place.

Your handicap factor is used to determine your course handicap for specific tees you are playing. The course handicap has no decimal and is calculated based on your factor and the slope.

For people playing from different tees, there is a formula for determining how many extra strokes need to be given. IIRC, that formula uses the difference in ratings, not slope.

To answer your question, no, you haven't gotten any better. Sorry about that.

[leftylucas]

Khali, I think nokids and I are right because to become a 10 hc playing whites with lets say a slope of 118 one would have to score consistently in the low 80s but from the blues with let's say a higher slope of 122 one could score in the mid 80s but still could be a 10. This may factor in to your last question, you are giving yourself a float of 2 index points. The HC is your best potential score so when using ESC you cannot take more than a double bogey for HC purposes so playing blues you may get a triple or two and it would be the same score as doubling a couple of pars from the whites.

[leftylucas]

Now now, he may be playing better just not scoring better, like TIger LOL

[khali127]

"For people playing from different tees, there is a formula for determining how many extra strokes need to be given. IIRC, that formula uses the difference in ratings, not slope"

This seems to be a contradiction to the 10 is a 10 is a 10 concept. Why would it be necessary to have a formula to determine extra strokes if a player changes tee boxes? So it is really a 10 is a 10 in comparison to the course rating from each tee box.

If the player who is a 10 from the tips decides to play with his father on the senior tees who is also a 10 then things should all be equal and no formula needs to be applied to figured out extra strokes. Or the senior father could move all the way back and play the tips because they are both 10's and it is still equal and should expect to score around same in the end no matter which adjustment they make?

In a two round match, one round from front tees and one from tips, between a player A who plays the front tees and has is a scratch golfer and another player B who plays from the tips and is a scratch golfer how will the match play out? I assume golfer B gives stokes comparable to the difference in course rating, correct?

If their is no adjustment that takes into account the difference in course rating is it a "fair" match?

[jvincent]

The reason that you need to factor in the rating when playing from different tees is that both rating and slope are used to determine the handicap factor.

When the course handicap is calculated it only uses the handicap factor and course slope because it assumes that the tee box is the same for a given match. When different tees are used then there are different ratings so the course handicaps need to be adjusted.

BTW, I took a look a the handicap manual and confirmed that the ratings are used to adjust the course handicaps.

[PapaPat]

The reason that you need to factor in the rating when playing from different tees is that both rating and slope are used to determine the handicap factor.

When the course handicap is calculated it only uses the handicap factor and course slope because it assumes that the tee box is the same for a given match. When different tees are used then there are different ratings so the course handicaps need to be adjusted.

BTW, I took a look a the handicap manual and confirmed that the ratings are used to adjust the course handicaps.

jvincent has explained things properly. The first part of this thread is off the track. For handicap purposes, different tees are not different versions of the same course, but rather totally different courses. In order to compare these "different" courses, the handicap system calculates an RCGA Handicap Factor (no indexes in Canada). This is then used to determine what a player's handicap is when playing a given set of tees at a given course. Usually, there is a chart next to the course's handicap terminal to assist you in doing this. The next step, as he says, in order to play a match using different tees is to adjust the course handicaps by the difference in the course ratings.

The comment "a 10 is a 10" while giving us an idea that the player is pretty good, is just nonsence.

"If their is no adjustment that takes into account the difference in course rating is it a "fair" match?" No.

[khali127]

How about a specific situation to clarify.

If an 8hdcp who plays the golds at EC (73.8) plays vs an 8 hdcp who plays from the whites at Le Sorcier (69.1) and no strokes are given, is it a "fair" match?

What adjustment should be made?

[PapaPat]

This is covered in Section 9 item 3c in the RCGA Handicap Manual.

Let's assume that you mean that we are talking about a player who has a course (gold) handicap of 8 on the golds playing a person who has a course (white) handicap of 8 on the whites. You see, just saying that a person is an 8 handicap does not say anything. This handicap you are referring to needs the qualifier of what course and tees you are talking about. While it is common practice to say,"I'm an 8 handicap", as you will see, there can be a big difference in 8's. This is what your factor is all about.

The player playing from the gold tees would receive 5 strokes, the difference between 73.8 and 69.1 = 4.7 rounded to 5. I assume these ratings are from different courses, but the answer would be the same if we were talking about the gold and white tees at the same course. Keep in mind, that the handicap system regards each set of tees as a "different" course, not just an easier version of the same course. Events such as Couples Match Play and Senior Section days which allow a choice of tees if players are competing for the same prize pool require that you go through this process. Usually it is better to have a separate flight for each set of tees.