tee times and credit cards

[justdoit]

Has anyone else notice this practice at any other golf course.I play at various places and book tee times either on line or by phone and Equinelle wanted my credit card number to do so,never heard of this,in an era where credit card fraud is rampant and people are trying to do thier best to protect thier identity,this course has a lame brain way of booking tee times.

[leafman]

I have no problem with this. If they are having trouble with people booking and no showing or for whatever reason I think is a smart decision. This way if you don't cancel within a reasonable time or no show they should charge your card for a penalty. Maybe this is not what they do it for but I have no problem with it. If you don't want to give your card number then playing elsewhere may be a better option imo.

[Break68]

Yes, I have seen this practice before.
I have and will always refuse to give a credit card to reserve a tee time. There will always be courses that don't to use such silly tactics to get people to show up for their tee times.

[XTOUR]

Yes, I have seen this practice before.
I have and will always refuse to give a credit card to reserve a tee time. There will always be courses that don't to use such silly tactics to get people to show up for their tee times.

But as a business person, you enter a verbal commitment to show up as a foursome and either cancel or show up with less people the course loses. You book the same way with a hotel reservation!

[gbower]

I have no problem with the courses asking for credit cards. I've known some people that will book at 2 or 3 courses and decide which one to play at the last minute and not call the others to cancel. There are often people that don't have the courtesy to call and it's not good for the courses so my guess is that eQuinelle has had some problem with this practice.

[imozzie]

It is happening with more and more frequency and, quite frankly, I have no difficulty with it. As mentioned, unused spots are lost revenue for them. It is strictuly a business decision.

[jeffc]

not sure what credit card fraud has to do with it, they are legit businesses. It's to get paid for the no shows.

[fourlights]

not sure what credit card fraud has to do with it, they are legit businesses. It's to get paid for the no shows.

Not saying that it happens, but anytime you give your credit card number and ccv number, you are at risk for fraudulent charges.

[Kilroy]

Hard to use it without being face to face then. CC fraud happens, but you are fairly well protected unless they get all your personal info and go nuts on you.

[jvincent]

Credit cards are the safest way to conduct all transactions, especially online since the CC companies cover you against false charges.

I've had two false charges in the last 10 years. In both cases the CC company called me to ask about an unusual charge (no, I didn't buy $400 worth of electronics in Spain) and I had a new card/number in a couple of days.

[Sakuraba]

As someone mentioned above, we are used to it for hotel reservations, and if you think about it, a golf course is exposed to a lot more potential lost revenue than a hotel. A full rate 4some with carts at some of the better courses around could represent $200-$400. I expect it will increase as a practice.

[sparsons]

The Nation was taking photocopies of credit cards because they had a couple of power carts recently totalled. When I finished my round, I went back and made sure they destroyed that photocopy right in front of me. They have a shredder behind the front counter.

[Kiwi]

I have only experienced this at Nation (as mentioned by Sparsons). I always clench up when asked for this but it seems to be the way business is going. Most of the stuff you do on line requires not only the cc# but the three digit code on the back, which to me is even more of an issue. I guess you have to have a little faith in the people you deal with, although I don't like the idea of my # being out there for dozens or hundreds of employees having access.

[Brewcee]

At Metcalfe we take a credit card if you are booking for more than 1 tee time (i.e booking for a group of 8). I would say we have a minor problem with no shows and if we recognize a name that has booked before and not shown up with give them a friendly reminder. If we sense a pattern we would start asking for credit card info up front.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I don't like it, partly cause I don't own a credit card.

There have always been cancelled tee times but I think most people show up, it's the way it's been for thousands of years etc...I just think it's a bit much, it not a doctors apt. They could always take your name and number and try and squeeze the funds out of you if you skip using the honour system.

[XTOUR]

I don't like it, partly cause I don't own a credit card.

There have always been cancelled tee times but I think most people show up, it's the way it's been for thousands of years etc...I just think it's a bit much, it not a doctors apt. They could always take your name and number and try and squeeze the funds out of you if you skip using the honour system.

Why is it a bit much? Honour system would be sure no problem here's my card #. Too many people book and cancel or at the last minute can't find the fourth for their foursome. It's still a business. The golf courses have eight months to make their profit. People don't like change... I understand it. But in today's times why as a business owner should I lose $ for no shows when I could have filled the spots? All our discount golf companies do the same. Your card gets charged 50% or more if you cancel. It's a business. Protect yourself to ensure your survival in the industry.

They could always take your name and number and try and squeeze the funds out of you if you skip using the honour system.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, you really think that would work?

[Wknd_Warrior]

Too many people book and cancel or at the last minute can't find the fourth for their foursome. It's still a business.

I wouldn't know, golf courses got by for decades up untill now. that was just part of the business. I guess it's a matter of what people will accept. I just don't like it. I don't care about their plight with cancelled tee times.

Anyhow, the one course I play that does this gives you 24 hours to cancell and isn't gauranteed to stick it to you, which at least is civilized. It's just a drag for me cause I don't have a credit card. I'm really hoping I'm not going to need one in 5 years just to make a tee time.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Seriously, you really think that would work?

probably not lol

[Gangrel]

I wonder how much has to do with the fact that less people seem to be playing, so they want to make sure any booked spot is paid for? I dunno.

I've been a bit amazed this year, any Saturday or Sunday I've been out at a course, they seem to be less busy then in years past.

I do think the courses get screwed alot by over bookings though. Any time I book a foursome, and for whatever reason need to drop it down to a threesome, I call and unbook one spot. More then one course has told me they appreciate the call, so it sounds to me like that doesn't happen very often.......

[jeffc]

In a highly competitive market, businesses are looking to maximize their revenue and this to me is a no brainer. People who book and then don't show are effectively taking spots from others who could have booked that time and paid - lost revenue for the club that they can never recover. Let's say it happen's only once a day per weekend at $60 / golfer. So $60 x 4 x 2 = $480 / weekend. Multiply that by 20 weekends in the summer and that's almost $10,000. I'm guessing here on the numbers but you get the point and I don't think I am too far off my estimates as I think I have been conservative. I am all for this since it means that people will think twice about not cancelling if they think they will be charged.

[Grouchy]

The Marshes also does this, even when I was booking with a free foursome pass. While it feels a little ominous, when you realize the way businesses in the past protected themselves from no-shows was by overbooking, this is a better solution for players.

I have to admit that on a societal level, I am uncomfortable that more and more transactions require a credit card but people are not guaranteed to be able to get a credit card. So at some point people with an inability or unwillingness to get one will be shut out of many activities.

[nexxo]

[QUOTE=Wknd_Warrior;414279 I just don't like it. I don't care about their plight with cancelled tee times.

.[/QUOTE]

i would imagine that they don't much care about your lack of a credit card either.

[Sunny D]

I've been asked for a credit card for a whille in Florida, but only during the busy winter period. Don't know about the summer.

Got a condo on a course in Orlando and have got to know the owner's son quite well. So he tells me the story that about 5 years ago he got new software for his reservation system that tracks all kinds of cool stuff. One of the things it tracks is no shows and underbookings (when 3s show up with only 2) After only 6 months of using the system he went to credit card hold because of lost revenue during peak periods. I'm going from memory here but it went something like this. During snowbird season from October to April he lost an average of 6 slots a day every day during peak periods. (again only counting 4some and 2some no shows and underbookings) The course averages 90 bucks to play during the winter. So the math goes something like this. 90*6 for $540 per day, 7 days a week, for 28 weeks or $105,840. Take our rainy and cold days and his number was about 90K. Suddenly going to a credit card hold made perfect sense. Since he went to credit card hold his no shows went from 6 to 2. Food for thought....

[triple-bogey]

I've been asked for a credit card for a whille in Florida, but only during the busy winter period. Don't know about the summer.

Got a condo on a course in Orlando and have got to know the owner's son quite well. So he tells me the story that about 5 years ago he got new software for his reservation system that tracks all kinds of cool stuff. One of the things it tracks is no shows and underbookings (when 3s show up with only 2) After only 6 months of using the system he went to credit card hold because of lost revenue during peak periods. I'm going from memory here but it went something like this. During snowbird season from October to April he lost an average of 6 slots a day every day during peak periods. (again only counting 4some and 2some no shows and underbookings) The course averages 90 bucks to play during the winter. So the math goes something like this. 90*6 for $540 per day, 7 days a week, for 28 weeks or $105,840. Take our rainy and cold days and his number was about 90K. Suddenly going to a credit card hold made perfect sense. Since he went to credit card hold his no shows went from 6 to 2. Food for thought....

Not sure about the math. Unless the course is fully booked at all tee times, and the course is actually turning down reservations because they (wrongly) believe everyone will honor their reservation, then there is no lost revenue, (or at least, not nearly as much as your computations show). I am not excusing the behavior (i.e. not honoring your reservation), just questioning the model.

[314314]

No credit card = No tee-time (simple)... We are all adults and we know why is needed and yes it's a normal practices in some courses... Yet, note that I have never given my CC to hold tee-times so it can be done... When asked for one, I have given my cell number and it usually does the trick. If not, I play somewhere else...no biggie.

[Sunny D]

Not sure about the math. Unless the course is fully booked at all tee times, and the course is actually turning down reservations because they (wrongly) believe everyone will honor their reservation, then there is no lost revenue, (or at least, not nearly as much as your computations show). I am not excusing the behavior (i.e. not honoring your reservation), just questioning the model.

Fair comment, I'm not sure about the model either, I am only going by what he said, but the system they have is very sharp. In a past life I was a developer so I can appreciate it when software can help make running a business easier. So the system he has and showed me tracks when someone tries to book on line but they are full, and if someone calls for a tee time and they don't have one available the person taking the call can log that against the time in question. I actually saw it happen while he was showing me the system someone called for a tee time they had a couple of options they were full so the guy said OK and hung up. The counter guy noted that it was for a twosome and the time requested. The system also tracks the position of al the carts to see if the course is clogging up which is sent the Marshall and does all sorts of other course maintenance and management stuff, and yes this course if very busy during peak hours. For what it's worth it was number 12 in Florida of "best courses you can play" last year and is in the Rolex World's Top 1000 Golf Courses.

[Wknd_Warrior]

It's the whole bean counter thing, like every missed tee time is lost revenue and nothing more or less. IMO You run your course the way you think you should, you charge what you think you should charge, that's it. Some people aren't going to play there because of the requirement, some don't like it, PR is worth something. There's walk ons etc...a bit of a buffer now and them helps smooth out the course. Isn't that what the guy in the booth at the first tee is for? As far as I can see, because of a few dead beats they are passing the hassle onto the consumer.

I think they should be looking more at the big picture. Anyhow, it seems to be becoming the acceptable norm these days, so that's pretty much how it's gonna be. This will probably be the reason for me getting my next credit card.