Vijay or Tiger?

[NoBack]

Maybe set up a petition site where people can sign a petition to have Tiger's mouth washed out with soap.

Where do we sign up?

[Colby]

http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html

Just need to set things up, hahahaha

[Kilroy]

I'd sign that. He should realize the mikes are on, he's a role model, and kids are watching and learning. I don't think we heard that form Jack or Arnie. I've never seen them cuss out loud, but I can't say for sure it never happened. I'm sure the censors of the day would have claned it up for the Shell stuff which is all I have really watched, but it just seems unlikely they did it openly on TV.

[jeffc]

I love watching Tiger at his best. He makes shots that no one else in the world could make under the same kind of pressure. I can't however, stand his cussing and whining when he is not playing well. I understand his competitiveness, but there is a right way and wrong way to react when you hit a bad shot, especially when the events are live and well miked. Tiger unfortunately reacts the wrong way just about every time.

[golfmania]

Obviously Tiger doesn't play for money, He plays to win. He is the perfectionist. If he doesn't make a perfect shot, he is not happy, nothing wrong with that. He also doesn't need media attention, The media needs his.
He gave all his winning to charity 1,250,000.00 this week and 310,000 last week for kids. I mean all of it "1,560,000.00. Who is that you are talking about?
If you don't like him, don't watch him when he is in contention because the whole coverage would be him and rightfully so. It's tough though where you never saw #1 ranked player on TV except for on 18 hole, Because he wasn't #1 player in the field.

You are not Tiger, so you take it like a grown up man and admire Tiger for what he is, enjoy watching his gracious yet ferocious swing for as long as he plays.
I forgot this

Im a Tiger fan too Farzin, but don't you think he could improve his attitude, even just a little??

[mmills820105]

I'm as big a Tiger buff as the next guy, but we all know golf is a frustrating game. I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can say they've never cursed after a bad shot. I agree that he should be aware of the cameras and kids around him, but when you're a perfectionist and you're playing to win, and hit a bad shot, emotions get a hold of you, and you're not thinking of cameras, or who's watching. He wears his heart on his sleeve and is not afraid to show a little emotion. I'm sure a lot of guys on tour do it, it's just magnified because Tiger is on TV a lot more than the others. I have no problem with Tiger showing a little passion when he's playing his game.

[NoBack]

I have no problem with Tiger showing a little passion when he's playing his game.

So you're 10 year old is out with you playing a roundand he's in the moment, doesnt make the shot the way he should, throws a hissy fit, throws his clublooks at dad and dad says???????

[Kilroy]

not one person on this board who can say they've never cursed after a bad shot.

Yes I have. I have never done it while on TV. There is a difference.
Tell me honestly, do you check your language when a lady or a child walks into the room? Most people do.

[Andru]

So you're 10 year old is out with you playing a roundand he's in the moment, doesnt make the shot the way he should, throws a hissy fit, throws his clublooks at dad and dad says???????

The 30 seconds he witnessed Tiger get angry on telelvision is not going to turn your kid into a spoiled brat. Let's look at this realistically. Your child spends about say. 240 days in the personal company of his father and 3 minutes watching Tiger when he's mad on television per year. And the Hissy fit is the result of Tiger? I don't think so.

Given all of the negative influences on a child theses days. I'd say Tiger swearing at a bad shot is way way way down the list. I've heard more swearing at a kids hockey game.

[jbrace]

GROAN Yet another "Tiger is great!", "No, Tiger is crap" argument. I normally stay out of these but I just want to add some of my observations and opinions.

I don't "hate" Tiger, nor do I worship him. As with all golf fans, I love to watch great golf and when Tiger is on his game I do enjoy watching him play. But lately (within the last year or so) it seems that Tiger is not satisfied with anything but absolute perfection. I cringe every time he hits a shot and it ends up more than a foot from where he wanted it because you just know there's a scowl/pout/"goddamit" on the way. I agree with others here that it’s childish, unnecessary, and just plain ugly to watch. I understand and respect his passion and his desire to hit every shot/putt perfectly, but there is simply no need to act the way he does. It seems like, for whatever reason, he feels the need to show everyone just how unhappy he is. When he does hit a shot he’s satisfied with (i.e. stuffing it from 205 yards) he might smile for a quick second and carry on. I just wish he would have a little more FUN while PLAYing every now and then.

The 30 seconds he witnessed Tiger get angry on telelvision is not going to turn your kid into a spoiled brat

Interesting story… One day this past summer I got paired up with a couple of juniors, say 13 years old or so. All day these guys were cussing, groaning, slamming clubs, and so on, after every poor shot (and some of the not so bad shots). Finally, near the end of the round after countless of these mini hissy fits, I got a little frustrated and suggested that they might want to relax a little and just enjoy playing. One of them responded, “Yeah well, I’ve see Tiger do worse, so what’s the big deal?” When I asked him if he always does what Tiger does, he said something like, “Well I wish I was a good as him, I watch him all the time, he’s the man, blah blah blah…” Funny, but true!

[NoBack]

jbrace

Can I use your story in other forums???
How they think his actions mean absolutely nothing is nuts.

Thanks for your comments.

[jbrace]

jbrace

Can I use your story in other forums???
How they think his actions mean absolutely nothing is nuts.

Absolutely.

To suggest that Tiger only has a positive effect on golfers, juniors in particular, is absurd. That is not to say that all kids who watch Tiger freak out are going to do the same. The point of my story was just to illustrate that kids do see that negative side of Tiger and some of them are going to think it's OK to act that way because he does. Indeed, most of the junior golfers I have met are huge Tiger fans and they are very well mannered and polite. They know, through natural instinct and/or by being taught, that it's not OK to act like an idiot everytime you become dissappointed. Maybe Tiger could learn something from them.

[broken27]

Swearing doesn't equate to immaturity... It doesn't mean someone is uneducated or poor or anything of the sort...

Different people have different ways of expressing themselves, and quite frankly, I think swearing is perfectly acceptable in the world of sports to a degree...

As long as you're not calling people names, or cursing up a blue streak towards the hosts, or taking it to extremes, the odd F-bomb here and there is fine. There is a lot of pressure on these guys, and they're human. I haven't seen Tiger on national TV during an interview swearing....

Oh yeah, I'm one of the Tiger BASHERS in this forum, so take everything above to apply even more when it's a guy I cheer for who swears....

Personally I think golf etiquette is too stuffy and rigid, and caters to people with no imagination.

Dan

[broken27]

Oh, and for the record, I think Phil will win the money title next season, Vijay in second. Tiger will be hot on their heels, and Mike Weir will have a disappointing season while finishing out of the top 10.

How does it happen EVERY time? Someone posts a legitimate question, and it devolves into a pi$$ing contest between Tiger fans and Tiger bashers? Guess there's nothing else to talk about?

Dan

[Andru]

GROAN Yet another "Tiger is great!", "No, Tiger is crap" argument. I normally stay out of these but I just want to add some of my observations and opinions.

I don't "hate" Tiger, nor do I worship him. As with all golf fans, I love to watch great golf and when Tiger is on his game I do enjoy watching him play. But lately (within the last year or so) it seems that Tiger is not satisfied with anything but absolute perfection. I cringe every time he hits a shot and it ends up more than a foot from where he wanted it because you just know there's a scowl/pout/"goddamit" on the way. I agree with others here that it’s childish, unnecessary, and just plain ugly to watch. I understand and respect his passion and his desire to hit every shot/putt perfectly, but there is simply no need to act the way he does. It seems like, for whatever reason, he feels the need to show everyone just how unhappy he is. When he does hit a shot he’s satisfied with (i.e. stuffing it from 205 yards) he might smile for a quick second and carry on. I just wish he would have a little more FUN while PLAYing every now and then.Interesting story… One day this past summer I got paired up with a couple of juniors, say 13 years old or so. All day these guys were cussing, groaning, slamming clubs, and so on, after every poor shot (and some of the not so bad shots). Finally, near the end of the round after countless of these mini hissy fits, I got a little frustrated and suggested that they might want to relax a little and just enjoy playing. One of them responded, “Yeah well, I’ve see Tiger do worse, so what’s the big deal?” When I asked him if he always does what Tiger does, he said something like, “Well I wish I was a good as him, I watch him all the time, he’s the man, blah blah blah…” Funny, but true!

Yeah yeah yeah.

Club thorwing and "hissy fits" started in golf the day Tiger stepped into the spot light. Geez this whole discussion is absolutely ridiculous. The conclusions that can be drawn from such anecdotal stories is amazing.

Second. There are plenty of players on the PGA tour that say bad things and make faces when they hit bad shots. Tiger happens to be the only golfer on screen during every shot of every round. It's funny the 30 handicap hackers are trying to tell one of the best of all time how to control his emotions. The guy has emotions and he shows them on the course. That's how he plays golf. Period.

There were poorly behaved people in golf before Tiger and there will be after. Just as there are different people in REC Hockey, Soccer, Football, Baseball blah blah blah. Tiger has no effect on the swearing in golf. it's another thing to nit-pik at Tiger about.

If it wasn't this. It would be something else. Here's few

- He wears his pants too baggy( as reported the first time he went to the UK).
- He doesn't play enough tournaments.
- He doesn't sign enough autographs.
- He doesn't look at people in the eye when he's walking from hole to hole.
- He doesn't smile enough.
- He's too intense.
- He has too many nike swooshes on his clothes. ( That was a beauty back in 1998 )
- His headcover in the commercials is rude.
- He's make too much money.

The guy won't have everyone on his side until he's 60 and doing he arnie and jack fairwell tours. Then people are going to realize how great he was for the game.

[jbrace]

LOL! Here we go...

Club thorwing and "hissy fits" started in golf the day Tiger stepped into the spot light.

Errrr, right... Nowhere did I ever suggest that, so easy with the defensiveness. Even I know for a fact that club throwing has been around since at least the day I started golfing

The conclusions that can be drawn from such anecdotal stories is amazing.

Read my second post about why I felt the need to tell that story. I'm not drawing any "conclusions", just telling a funny story that pertains to the post. If other readers want to make conclusions about Tiger's influence, then so be it.

There are plenty of players on the PGA tour that say bad things and make faces when they hit bad shots

Yes, and most of those same players appreciate their good shots as well. I'm not saying Tiger should never swear, never grimace, never toss his putter at Steve Williams, and so on. I just think he, and all players (there, is that better?) should try and keep it under control a bit. Also, Tiger seems to do those things more often; and no it's not just because he is being shown more. To me, it just seems that he is grumpy ALL THE TIME. It's a shame to see a guy playing good golf, yet not seeming to appreciate it. Someone mentioned how when he tapped in on 18 on Sunday he just kinda nodded to the crowd, hugged Steve and did his robot-march off to the scorer's tent.

Tiger happens to be the only golfer on screen during every shot of every round.

ARRRGHHH. No need to remind us...

It's funny the 30 handicap hackers are trying to tell one of the best of all time how to control his emotions.

I hope you're not assuming that: a.) I'm a 30 handicap hacker.
b.) I'm trying to tell Tiger how to control his emotions.
But for the record, I'm a 3 and have played my fair share of competetive golf. Which is not to suggest I perfectly control my emotions, but if I knew I was being watched by kids who look up to me I would certainly try and watch the F-bombs and maybe actually show kids that winning isn't the most important thing.

The guy has emotions and he shows them on the course. That's how he plays golf. Period

Good for Tiger. He has emotions. He shows them on the course. Play on Tiger, play on...

Period.

[golfmania]

I'm as big a Tiger buff as the next guy, but we all know golf is a frustrating game. I'm sure there is not one person on this board who can say they've never cursed after a bad shot. I agree that he should be aware of the cameras and kids around him, but when you're a perfectionist and you're playing to win, and hit a bad shot, emotions get a hold of you, and you're not thinking of cameras, or who's watching. He wears his heart on his sleeve and is not afraid to show a little emotion. I'm sure a lot of guys on tour do it, it's just magnified because Tiger is on TV a lot more than the others. I have no problem with Tiger showing a little passion when he's playing his game.

If I was a role model for millions of kids, there is zero chance of me acting like a jerk. I don't do it in front of my nephews, why would I do it in front of millions?

[broken27]

If I was a role model for millions of kids, there is zero chance of me acting like a jerk. I don't do it in front of my nephews, why would I do it in front of millions?

I'm thinking that until you're in the position someone like Tiger (or any other peak-level athlete) is in, it'd be difficult to understand exactly what the mindset it...

Point being that you're not a role-model for millions of kids, and likely never will be unless you've learned the art of hyper-copulation and produce millions of offspring. I think it's a very "individual" situation that most of us can't understand personally, and we react based on what our sensibilities are. Technically, the TV network that shows Tiger cursing and throwing hissy fits is the villain. Target your anger towards them.

Besides which, there's never a ZERO percent chance of acting like a jerk because different folks have different ideas of what they consider a jerk.

Dan

[golfmania]

It's funny the 30 handicap hackers are trying to tell one of the best of all time how to control his emotions.

While I agree that people will always try to knock down someone who is on top, I don't think some of your comments apply, particularly something like this. Being a high handicapper has little or nothing to do with poor sportsmanlike conduct.

And yes, while there are tons of athletes who act like jerks, there are tons that don't. Thats why Fred Funk is one of the most loved golfers on the tour.

And my point, broken, is that I am a role model for kids...and I don't behave that way. Whether its millions or 5 makes no difference. Whether you think so or not makes little difference to me.

If your point about jerk being a subjective issue was true, why are some players more universally appreciated than others? Truth is, there are some actions that are more "jerkish" than others, but I'm sure you know that.

[broken27]

While I agree that people will always try to knock down someone who is on top, I don't think some of your comments apply, particularly something like this. Being a high handicapper has little or nothing to do with poor sportsmanlike conduct.

And yes, while there are tons of athletes who act like jerks, there are tons that don't. Thats why Fred Funk is one of the most loved golfers on the tour.

And my point, broken, is that I am a role model for kids...and I don't behave that way. Whether its millions or 5 makes no difference. Whether you think so or not makes little difference to me.

Some people might consider ignoring someone "being a jerk". Don't worry, I'm not asking to be your friend....

There's a huge difference in being a role model to 5 kids and to 5 million. Think about it man. 5 kids will generally go to sleep once in a while, all at the same time. When you're talking about 5-million, there's a good chance someone is ALWAYS watching you. When do you get to go to the strip club (assuming people still do that)? When is it finally your turn to sit back, relax, and curse up a blue streak because you had a bad day? Musicians, actors, athletes... All are vilified when they don't behave up to a certain standard. But we seem to forget that their responsibilities to their fans end when the performance/movie/game is over.

Being a high handicapper has everything to do with it if you're trying to tell a professional golfer how to play his game. Whether that's from the mental or physical side of things. I always find it hilarious when I come in here and see players with higher handicaps than me posting instructional tips in response to a low-handicapper's original thread.

And on the subject of being a jerk: Some players are more universally appreciated because that will always happen over time. Some people have less extreme views or behaviours. You proved my point for me with that little nugget. Thanks!

Dan

[golfmania]

Some people might consider ignoring someone "being a jerk". Don't worry, I'm not asking to be your friend....

There's a huge difference in being a role model to 5 kids and to 5 million. Think about it man. 5 kids will generally go to sleep once in a while, all at the same time. When you're talking about 5-million, there's a good chance someone is ALWAYS watching you. When do you get to go to the strip club (assuming people still do that)? When is it finally your turn to sit back, relax, and curse up a blue streak because you had a bad day? Musicians, actors, athletes... All are vilified when they don't behave up to a certain standard. But we seem to forget that their responsibilities to their fans end when the performance/movie/game is over.

Being a high handicapper has everything to do with it if you're trying to tell a professional golfer how to play his game. Whether that's from the mental or physical side of things. I always find it hilarious when I come in here and see players with higher handicaps than me posting instructional tips in response to a low-handicapper's original thread.

And on the subject of being a jerk: Some players are more universally appreciated because that will always happen over time. Some people have less extreme views or behaviours. You proved my point for me with that little nugget. Thanks!

Dan

Which is why I removed it. Good for you for grabbing it while I was editing. Are you a kid? If you're kid, then I proved your point. Acting like a kid doesn't count. If she weighs the same as a duck, shes a witch. I hate twisted logic.

While I agree the scrutiny would be incredibly annoying, I personally have never seen footage of Tiger at strip joints, at malls, or whatever...occasionally, I've seen snaps of him relaxing, but couldn't care less, neither could my nephews.

What I DO SEE all the time is him swearing over ridiculous things. Yes, that's how he drives himself to perfection, but give it a rest. I've heard him say ridiculous things knowing the microphones are on.

Yes, theres no way I can put myself in his shoes, I can only hypothesize...but seeing as I know my values better than YOU know my values, which is where I was insulted, then I think I can guess.

Seeing as I love kids, and have looked after many in my lifetime, I think I can say I've done a pretty good job being a role model. Perfect? Of course not. But I try. And I think I'd try even harder if I were a bigger one. But please, tell me more about myself. You seem to know best about everything.

[mmills820105]

- His headcover in the commercials is rude.

Heh, I like that one.

[Kilroy]

I'd hate to close this thread. Keep it civil please.

[broken27]

Which is why I removed it. Good for you for grabbing it while I was editing. Are you a kid? If you're kid, then I proved your point. Acting like a kid doesn't count. If she weighs the same as a duck, shes a witch. I hate twisted logic.

While I agree the scrutiny would be incredibly annoying, I personally have never seen footage of Tiger at strip joints, at malls, or whatever...occasionally, I've seen snaps of him relaxing, but couldn't care less, neither could my nephews.

What I DO SEE all the time is him swearing over ridiculous things. Yes, that's how he drives himself to perfection, but give it a rest. I've heard him say ridiculous things knowing the microphones are on.

Yes, theres no way I can put myself in his shoes, I can only hypothesize...but seeing as I know my values better than YOU know my values, which is where I was insulted, then I think I can guess.

Seeing as I love kids, and have looked after many in my lifetime, I think I can say I've done a pretty good job being a role model. Perfect? Of course not. But I try. And I think I'd try even harder if I were a bigger one. But please, tell me more about myself. You seem to know best about everything.

It's not worth the typing it would take to figure out where this comes from... Dan, don't worry. My part in conversing with this is over. Wouldn't want him feeling even MORE victimized....

Dan

[Andru]

LOL! Here we go...
Read my second post about why I felt the need to tell that story. I'm not drawing any "conclusions", just telling a funny story that pertains to the post. If other readers want to make conclusions about Tiger's influence, then so be it.

You can't plead complete innocence here. You know perfectly well adding a story about some kids freaking out ( while mentioning Tiger as a favourite), to a thread, that has been turned into a discussion about Tiger's behavior, is going to be viewed as an attempt to solidify an argument. Phew that was a long sentence

Also, Tiger seems to do those things more often;

Completely inaccurate. you know where to find the real numbers. The pga fines people for this kind of behaviour. If you really want to know who does it the most check those stats.

and no it's not just because he is being shown more. To me, it just seems that he is grumpy ALL THE TIME. It's a shame to see a guy playing good golf, yet not seeming to appreciate it. Someone mentioned how when he tapped in on 18 on Sunday he just kinda nodded to the crowd, hugged Steve and did his robot-march off to the scorer's tent.

That's what I meant when I said "some 30 handicapper" telling tiger how to control his emotions. He's a robot when he's golfing that's his personality. That's him. That's how he plays his best. Who cares whether he looks sour. He's a golfer. If you want a comedian watch the tonight show. If you want a warm and fuzzy guy to charm you watch Pride and Prejudice.

I hope you're not assuming that: a.) I'm a 30 handicap hacker.

I don't care what handicap you are. I know this, you haven't achieved the same level of success in golf as Tiger. I wouldn't go around telling Bill Gates how to control his emotions and to smile more to his employees. Eveyone is different. If you play better smilling and laughing do it.

But for the record, I'm a 3 and have played my fair share of competetive golf. Which is not to suggest I perfectly control my emotions, but if I knew I was being watched by kids who look up to me I would certainly try and watch the F-bombs and maybe actually show kids that winning isn't the most important thing.

That would be great if Tiger was playing in a junior event with 20 1st place ribbons. The fact is they're playing the PGA tour. It's ALL about winning. If you play well you get paid, if you do not play well. You go home without pay. Tiger has money yes, his pursuit is about personal achievement.

It is important to him to be the best he can possibly be. If that means not smiling at all 20,000 people he sees at a tournament. That's what he has to do. Some people are happy with mediocrity some people strive for more. Tiger obviously has his sites set quite high.

Just hit the golf ball and tip your cap when you get applause. And dont' try it. Tiger took his hat off and acknowledged the crowd when he received the ovation walking up 18 on Sunday.

One final note. Tiger wasn't in the last group on Sunday. So he can't stand around when there's a group in the fairway waiting to play up.

[Andru]

While I agree that people will always try to knock down someone who is on top, I don't think some of your comments apply, particularly something like this. Being a high handicapper has little or nothing to do with poor sportsmanlike conduct.

What exactly did Tiger do that was unsportsmanlike??

And yes, while there are tons of athletes who act like jerks, there are tons that don't. Thats why Fred Funk is one of the most loved golfers on the tour.

And he's won how many majors??? Wait I know this. Zero. Great so what you're saying is Tiger should be more like Fred Funk. Don't win very often, and win favour on discussion boards with people who don't know you. Sounds appealing, don't you think? For the record I like Fred Funk in fact I like most PGA tour players. They're much more grounded than other Pro athletes. I think playing for pay does that to you.

[Calibogie]

How did MY question on Vijay vs Tiger end up all about Tiger???

Tiger plays with a level of intensity that many athletes do. Every one of us who expects better of ourselves will curse, have a hissy fit and make us look like all 'round jerks. How many guys have you golfed with have thrown their clubs or pounded them into the ground. No, that's not good behaviour, but it happens.
I say leave Tiger alone, let him beat himself up. He has set some high goals for himself and the rest of the pros have responded by finding the game to beat him. Now he needs to make adjustments and strive for those goals from a different direction.

[NoBack]

How did MY question on Vijay vs Tiger end up all about Tiger???

Calibogie ..... Remember my first post to this question??

Welcome to OttawaGolf Forum
Ahhhhhhhhhh those newbies. :shake
VJ of course. Right Andru??? Farzin???

It's ALWAYS about Tiger.

[golfmania]

And he's won how many majors??? Wait I know this. Zero. Great so what you're saying is Tiger should be more like Fred Funk. Don't win very often, and win favour on discussion boards with people who don't know you. Sounds appealing, don't you think? For the record I like Fred Funk in fact I like most PGA tour players. They're much more grounded than other Pro athletes. I think playing for pay does that to you.

And for the record, I'm a huge Tiger fan. But lets not mix apples and oranges. When I brought up Funk, I was showing there's a lot of class in a good attitude. How about this name for Major winners and sportsman conduct: Arnold Palmer. How about Nicklaus, if I have to drop a name.

I wish people quotiing statements would remember THE RELEVANCE of the quote as well.

[Andru]

And he's won how many majors??? Wait I know this. Zero. Great so what you're saying is Tiger should be more like Fred Funk. Don't win very often, and win favour on discussion boards with people who don't know you. Sounds appealing, don't you think? For the record I like Fred Funk in fact I like most PGA tour players. They're much more grounded than other Pro athletes. I think playing for pay does that to you.

And for the record, I'm a huge Tiger fan. But lets not mix apples and oranges. When I brought up Funk, I was showing there's a lot of class in a good attitude. How about this name for Major winners and sportsman conduct: Arnold Palmer. How about Nicklaus, if I have to drop a name.

I wish people quotiing statements would remember THE RELEVANCE of the quote as well.

When has Tiger EVER acted in an unsportsmanlike manner? Name the event and the act.

I was waiting for the Arnold, Jack card. It usually pops up when people have run out of ammo. When Jack was younger he also had his fair share of critics for different, yet equally petty reasons.