Casual Water in a Bunker

[BC MIST]

Played Pakenhan today and one of my fellow competitor's ball came to rest in casual water in the near end of a greenside bunker. The only area free of casual water was in the far end of the bunker, all of which was closer to the hole from where his ball was originally lying in the bunker. My fellow competitor insisted that he could drop the ball in the bunker, closer to the hole.

He said that it would be unfair for him to have to go back to the spot from which he originally hit the shot, and add one stroke, or to go back on a line connecting the point where the ball originally lay and the hole, under penalty of one stroke, because he is taking relief and should not be penalized. I said that it would also be unfair for him to be able to take relief in the bunker closer to the hole.


In checking the appropriate rule, http://www.rcga.org/english/Rules/rule_25.asp,

Except when the ball is in a water hazard or a lateral water hazard, a player may take relief from interference by an abnormal ground condition as follows:
(ii) In a Bunker: If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either:
(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker, or if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition; or
(b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

Therefore, my FC was wrong. The player may not take relief by dropping the ball closer to the hole. Am I correct in assuming that there are no circumstances under which a player, in taking relief from anything, may drop a ball so that it ends up in play, closer to the hole?

[Kilroy]

I'd have to agree with you.

[1972Apex]

I'd have to say you guys play some pretty serious golf for November...

[Gary Hill]

Am I correct in assuming that there are no circumstances under which a player, in taking relief from anything, may drop a ball so that it ends up in play, closer to the hole?

A player's tee shot hits the forward tee markers and rebounds straight backwards to a point 50 yards behind the players. The player may declare the ball unplayable and play his next stroke from the teeing ground. In effect, he would be playing his next stroke closer to the hole than where his ball originally lay.

A player has a very fast short putt from a downhill lie, he putts past the hole and the ball rolls off the green. He may declare the ball unplayable and play his stroke from near the hole.

Other than similar unplayable ball options, there are NO circumstances under which a relief point may be closer to the hole.

Also, there are NO circumstances under which a ball dropped at this relief point may come to rest nearer the hole.

[Kilroy]

in taking relief from anything, may drop a ball so that it ends up in play, closer to the hole

Other than similar unplayable ball options, there are NO circumstances under which a relief point may be closer to the hole.

Interesting distinction. I had not considered "taking relief" to include taking a stroke and distance penalty. We just had a lengthy thread on just that issue!

Did anyone ever tell you Gary that you have a mind like a steel trap? It is amazing to me how clearly you see all aspects of these questions. Thanks for all your help again this season. We are really fortunate to have you here!

[BC MIST]

I'd have to say you guys play some pretty serious golf for November...

The guys that I played with like to wager. We played the "Crib" game(best game there is IMO), a skins game at $1 a point(there were 3 eagles and a whole bunch of birdies), and individual games. On a bad day one might lose about $25, and it hurts a little, but it also keeps the competitive juices flowing.

Was down a few bucks teeing of the last hole (27th), bid birdie, and made birdie. That $18 put me up about $10. Love taking money from guys who hate to lose.

[BC MIST]

Other than similar unplayable ball options, there are NO circumstances under which a relief point may be closer to the hole.

Also, there are NO circumstances under which a ball dropped at this relief point may come to rest nearer the hole.

(1)Temporary Immovable Obstruction

If a drop area is used as a point of relief from the above, then according to Appendix I, 6 (a) V, "If the player uses a dropping zone to take relief, he must take relief in the dropping zone nearest to where the ball originally lay or is deemed to lie under clause IV(even though the nearest dropping zone may be nearer the hole.)
Note 2. If the ball is dropped in a dropping zone the ball shall not be redropped if it comes to rest within two club lengths of the spot where it first struck a part of the course even though it may come to rest nearer the hole or outside the boundaries of the dropping zone."

So while this exception is not part of the normal rules, there is a local rule that does permit the ball to come to rest and be playable, closer to the hole.

(2) Under any circumstance, is it possible to declare a drop area, for taking relief from casual water?

[BC MIST]

Another example of dropping closer to the hole came to mind.

If I hit my ball into a bunker, say to the right of the putting green, and as I approach the bunker I see a rattlesnake near the ball. Because of the danger I am permitted to play from elsewhere. As it would be too dangerous to play from anywhere in that same bunker, am I permitted to place a ball in a similar lie, in a bunker to the left of the green, even though the spot where I place the ball is closer to the hole?

It seems to me that I read about this in a book on the rules of golf. Perhaps by Tom Watson?

[EDSGOLF]

Excellent question about the rattlesnake in the bunker, can't wait to see the ruling on this one. What if there is no other bunker. To me, you get to drop a ball without penalty outside the bunker.

[BC MIST]

Excellent question about the rattlesnake in the bunker, can't wait to see the ruling on this one. What if there is no other bunker. To me, you get to drop a ball without penalty outside the bunker.

While this sounds reasonably, I would say that if you drop outside the bunker, that a penalty stroke would be added. Going to an adjacent bunker creates a similar lie situation while dropping on the grass outside the bunker makes it just too easy.
Wanna bet???

[EDSGOLF]

But the ruling can not be dependant on if there is a bunker nearby, what if the only other bunker is 100 yards away or if there are no other bunkers on that hole. Apart from shooting the snake, I say drop it outside with no stroke. Gary Hill, where are you?

[Kilroy]

Just don't hit the snake with your club. There's a penalyt for grounding it in a bunker

[Gary Hill]

Gary Hill, where are you?

Come on guys, I dont get up until the crack of noon.

Decision 1-4/10
It is unreasonable to expect the player to play from such a dangerous situation and unfair to require the player to incur a penalty under Rule 26 (Water Hazards) or Rule 28 (Ball Unplayable).

In equity (Rule 1-4), as an additional option the player should be permitted, without penalty, to drop a ball on the nearest spot not nearer the hole which is not dangerous.

If the ball lay in a hazard, it should be dropped, if possible, in the same hazard and, if not, in a similar nearby hazard, but in either case not nearer the hole.

If it is not possible for the player to drop the ball in a hazard, he may drop it, under penalty of one stroke, outside the hazard, keeping the point where the original ball lay between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped.

If it is clearly unreasonable for the player to play a stroke because of interference by anything other than the dangerous situation he may not take relief as prescribed above, but he is not precluded from proceeding under Rule 26 or 28.

[EDSGOLF]

So basically have the Crocodile Hunter's phone number handy in case of snakes and crocs found in bunkers?

[Sakuraba]

Or better yet, take that telescoping ball retriever, extend it to max length, and delicately remove the snake from the hazard without moving your ball. Then deposit the snake in your FC's bag

[covanant]

are snakes considered(loose impediment)?

[EDSGOLF]

I'm like Indiana Jones......I HATE snakes....even garden snakes!

[Gary Hill]

are snakes considered(loose impediment)?

A live snake is an outside agency. A dead snake is a loose impediment.