cart paths

[3wood]

hey guy's need a little help on this, what would the ruling be for this.
tee shot puts ball right side of cart path, on grass, to hit ball forward, you would need to be standing on cart path, would you get relief due to having to stand on cart path?

thank you

[gbower]

You would be entitled to relief from the cart path but make sure to have a good look at where you will have to drop when finding your "nearest point of relief" as sometimes the drop may be in a pretty ugly place and playing while standing on the cart path with a good lie may be your best option. If you go to Rule 24-2 http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules...on-24/#24-2b/1 you can see how to determine your "nearest point of relief".

[3wood]

thank you, gbower

[gbower]

The other thing to know is that when taking relief from a cart path you must take full relief so that neither your stance or ball are touching the path. When we talk about "nearest point of relief" is that it is not always the "nicest point of relief"

[THUNDAH]

Mr. Bower, what would the correct procedure be in the previous case? NPR is identified. Is the drop taken within one club lenght of where the feet will be, or one club lenght from where the club will contact the ball? I hope you can picture what I'm trying to say because I have a bit of a problem putting it into words.

[gbower]

The ball must be dropped within one clublength of where the "nearest point of relief" is and that point will be where the club could contact the ball. From where the ball hits the ground it can now roll up to 2 clublengths from there, no closer to the hole and not onto a putting green or into a hazard. Sometimes this can be a big benefit to the player and other times it can get you into a not so desirable lie. Must remember that after the drop you must not be still standing on the cart path.
I hope this helps

[mpare]

So, a ball that is dropped within one club length of the nearest point of relief could stop nearly three club lengths from the nearest point of relief (no nearer the hole) and be in play?

The ball must be dropped within one clublength of where the "nearest point of relief" is and that point will be where the club could contact the ball. From where the ball hits the ground it can now roll up to 2 clublengths from there, no closer to the hole and not onto a putting green or into a hazard. Sometimes this can be a big benefit to the player and other times it can get you into a not so desirable lie. Must remember that after the drop you must not be still standing on the cart path.
I hope this helps

[gbower]

That is correct Mike.

[mpare]

Thanks, Gerry. I had not thought this through clearly until you talked about it.

That is correct Mike.

[LobWedge]

So, a ball that is dropped within one club length of the nearest point of relief could stop nearly three club lengths from the nearest point of relief (no nearer the hole) and be in play?

It doesn't come in to play a lot, but it does happen. On the 4th at Smugglers, the cartpath runs right alongside a lateral water hazard, and balls routinely disappear in it from the tee. The path is wider than 2 clublengths, and it's not level. Taking relief there is always an adventure.

[jvincent]

Loch March #10 is also nice one. There is a sliver of grass between the cart path and the little pond that is between #10 and #13.

You can drop there but it almost always ends up in the hazard.

[LobWedge]

Loch March #10 is also nice one. There is a sliver of grass between the cart path and the little pond that is between #10 and #13.

You can drop there but it almost always ends up in the hazard.

You're almost better off to "reload" there. Between the mounds, the cart path, and the pond, it's definitely dicey.

[BC MIST]

Loch March #10 is also nice one. There is a sliver of grass between the cart path and the little pond that is between #10 and #13.

You can drop there but it almost always ends up in the hazard.

I don't know the hole, but if you choose to take relief from the cart path, you must drop the ball on the "sliver of grass," if it is the nearest point of relief. If the ball rolls into the hazard twice, then the/a ball must be placed where it made contact with the ground. Or, play the ball as it lies, or stroke and distance, or declare it unplayable.

[LobWedge]

I don't know the hole, but if you choose to take relief from the cart path, you must drop the ball on the "sliver of grass," if it is the nearest point of relief. If the ball rolls into the hazard twice, then the/a ball must be placed where it made contact with the ground. Or, play the ball as it lies, or stroke and distance, or declare it unplayable.

Here's the area jvincent's talking about.

[jvincent]

I don't know the hole, but if you choose to take relief from the cart path, you must drop the ball on the "sliver of grass," if it is the nearest point of relief. If the ball rolls into the hazard twice, then the/a ball must be placed where it made contact with the ground. Or, play the ball as it lies, or stroke and distance, or declare it unplayable.

Yes, that's the problem I was talking about. You invariably have such a small area to drop that it can be difficult to get it to stay.

The more typical situation is that the ball goes into the hazard and your drop either ends up on the sliver of grass and you are standing on the path or your drop hits the path and starts bouncing/rolling.

Of course, the smart play is simply not hit it there in the first place.

[gbower]

I often find it amazing that players don't want to stand on a cart path and play a shot even when they have a perfect lie. If you look at where you would drop when taking two club lengths from the hazard and can get the right bounce it may be to your advantage. Lyle & I each had a situation at Royal Ottawa, hole #18 near the green where the drop was on the cart path and the player new the rule very well and dropped on the edge of the cart path and the ball bounced more than 2 club lengths and then placed it on the cart path and next was relief from the cart path and the ball rolled nearly 2 club lengths and he now had a good lie near the fairway and in Lyle's case I think the player ended up just about 7 club lengths from the hazard.

[jvincent]

Yeah, I don't get people who won't stand on a cart path either. They really aren't that slippery, especially with soft spikes.

I'll have to remember the dropping on the edge of the cart path trick. That's a good one.

[gbower]

Both of these were kids that were going to school in the States so they must work on where and how to take a drop that will work to their advantage. Sometimes it backfires but looking at the slope and lie of the land can help. Working a lot of tournaments I often want to tell the player where to drop but can only give them their options and leave it to them to implement the drop.

[quinner]

At Hautes Plaines this situation rears its head quite often as the cart path runs right beside the hazard. Can be tricky at times as to where to decide to drop it. I would like to address this at the free rules outing.

[gbower]

I've had a couple of situations at Hautes Plaines during a couple of tournaments and I know of a few of the cart path situations that you'd be much better off hitting right off the path rather than taking relief.

[AAA]

Just to add. Never lift your ball until you have evaluated the likely 'relief' position.
If it turns out you don't like it, it will cost you a penalty shot to simply replace it where it was.