Shot replayed????

[ricmar]

#14 green at Hawkesbury Golf and Curling is a long and heavily sloped green from back to front. If your above the hole, it is very easy to putt the ball off the green and have a 20 yard chip back to the hole. Someone told me that you always have the option to replay your shot (even a putt) with a one stroke penalty something like a ball hit O.B.???? Does anybody know of such a rule and if so what is the number?

Thanks,

Richard

P.S. By the way, our course is in perfect condition, fast greens and the leafs blown in the bush. We accept green fees even on weekends (phone 48 hours in advance). Special $50 including cart.

[jvincent]

Not sure of the number off the top of my head, but you declare the original ball, i.e. the one that rolled off the green, unplayable.

One of the options for an unplayable lie is to replay from where the previous stroke was played, under penalty of one stroke.

[Gary Hill]

Someone told me that you always have the option to replay your shot (even a putt) with a one stroke penalty something like a ball hit O.B.???? Does anybody know of such a rule and if so what is the number?

If your ball is in a water hazard (Rule 26-1), you may take relief.
If your ball in not in a water hazard, you may declare the ball unplayable (Rule 28).

Under both Rules the player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played.

[broken27]

So declaring a ball unplayable has nothing to do with whether it actually is unplayable? This confuses me. Maybe I'd need to see a PGA player exercise this option, but it seems like there's very few times where it would be to one's advantage to lie about his ball being unplayable and taking the penalty instead of taking your chances with the chip shot back onto the green...

Dan

[EDSGOLF]

I'm confused. If you chip your ball and it rolls off the green and goes 20 yards, you must make a decision with your ball where it lies (off the green in this case). You can't say "whoops I chipped my ball off the green so I will take a stroke penalty and chip it again". Doesn't make sense. Maybe I misunderstood the original question.

[Kilroy]

So declaring a ball unplayable has nothing to do with whether it actually is unplayable?

Correct.

"Unplayable lie" is always at the player's discression. Declaring it "unplayable" is more like saying "I do not want to play that". It is only a term. The player is not "lying about his ball being unplayable " he is making use of the rule.

Imagine if you putted from one foot above the hole... off the green, into a bunker, under a lip. Take your stroke and distance penalty and try again.

Still confused?...

Just to add to the confusion...You cannot "declare" your ball lost in the same way. You can chose not to look for it. However if anyone else finds it within the 5 minutes, it is not lost. Black and white.

Also in the confusing file ... All staked hazzards ar refered to as "water hazzards" in the rules even if they do not contain any water at all. It's just a term

[Sakuraba]

I never thought the unplayable lie ruling could be used like that. I could have used that in my club champ. this year. 2nd round long par 4 9th I was in the greenside bunker in 2. hit the sand shot thin :reallymad and wound up next to the parking lot, but playable. I took a 9 on the hole. The original sand shot was very straightforward too. good lie to pin about 30 ft away uphill. Could I have just dropped in the sand and hit it tight with a 1 stroke penalty? It seems contrary to the spirit of golf, although I know the rules gurus will say there is no spirit to the rules, they are black and white.

[Colby]

Yes, you could have declared the ball unplayable, dropped back in the sand, and re-hit.

It's up to the player to feel whether the ball is unplayable for them as a ball may be unplayable to one player, but not another. One example that I remember clearly was the use of the unplayable rule if you hit the ball into a greenside bunker and you do not hit very good bunker shots, usually leaving the ball in the bunker a couple of times before getting it out. You declare the ball in the bunker unplayable, go back to where you originally hit the ball, take your penalty and hit teh ball again. Hopefully it doesn't end up in the bunker again

[el tigre]

So declaring a ball unplayable has nothing to do with whether it actually is unplayable? This confuses me. Maybe I'd need to see a PGA player exercise this option, but it seems like there's very few times where it would be to one's advantage to lie about his ball being unplayable and taking the penalty instead of taking your chances with the chip shot back onto the green...

SCENARIO A: Your ball lies in a bunker UNDER the lip of the bunker. You CAN play it but the chances of actually getting the ball out the bunker on your next shot are slim and there is a good chance that you will not improve your lie in the bunker at all. Declare the ball unplayable, drop in the bunker as per the rules with a penalty stroke.
SCENARIO B: Your putt rolls off the green and down a slope into thick fescue or behind a tree. Declare the ball unplayable and putt again under penalty of one stroke.
SCENARIO C: You are a TERRIBLE sand player, and your putt rolls off the green into a bunker (perhaps even under the lip or into a pot bunker). Declare the ball unplayable and putt again under penalty of one stroke.

[NoBack]

Quite the rule for sure.

The old green at Mt Cascades no.17 use to be very unfair as it too sloped from back to front. Because it was so much downhill, there used to be many many 4-6 putts on that green. Let's say the ball was on the green and 30 ft below the cup. We would always see balls roll up to the hole and back down off the green with a 30 yrd chip to same cup. Not fair to say the least. Or the ever so smart putter would aim for a spot behind the cup so when it should have come to rest and didnt, it would roll backwards into the cup. Kinda like playing the wind.

Some guys would actually miss 4 inch putts it was so severe. That's a great place to use this rule. When you missed that 4 inch putt and the ball would end up 30 yrds away, you could go get your ball place at 4 inches and bang away.

Yes the green has been redone.

[EDSGOLF]

[QUOTE=Steve Karam]
Some guys would actually miss 4 inch putts it was so severe. That's a great place to use this rule. When you missed that 4 inch putt and the ball would end up 30 yrds away, you could go get your ball place at 4 inches and bang away.

But when you place it 4 inches away, lets say you were putting for birdie, now you would be putting for bogie?

[Kilroy]

But when you place it 4 inches away, lets say you were putting for birdie, now you would be putting for bogie

Yup

[NoBack]

But when you place it 4 inches away, lets say you were putting for birdie, now you would be putting for bogie?

But better a bogie then a double if it comes right back at your feet or worse.

[EDSGOLF]

True! I just never thought of taken an unplayable when it's playable.

[ricmar]

Wow!!! I'm overwhelmed with the reponse. I knew of the unplayable lie rule but did not know you could use it to your advantage like this. Likewise, I could have used this rule in my club championship when I skulled an easy bunker shot into a spot practically impossible to play.

[ricmar]

I have another good one for you. Last round of club championship, on the 18th green, Joe (not his real name) left a 15 foot putt that would have tied him for first in his category a few inches short. Disgusted, he hit the ball off the green with his putter, walked to the ball and picked it up. After a couple of minutes, he calmed down and decided to finish the hole. He dropped a ball as close as possible to where he picked up with one penalty stroke, finished the hole and signed his card. When the incident was reported to the pro, he had to disqualify him for signing a wrong card. Does anybody know what would have been the proper procedure?

[el tigre]

Disgusted, he hit the ball off the green with his putter, walked to the ball and picked it up. After a couple of minutes, he calmed down and decided to finish the hole. He dropped a ball as close as possible to where he picked up with one penalty stroke, finished the hole and signed his card. When the incident was reported to the pro, he had to disqualify him for signing a wrong card. Does anybody know what would have been the proper procedure?

The proper procedure would have been to declare the ball unplayable BEFORE he picked up his ball.

[ricmar]

Believe it or not, there is a rule for hitting a ball in disgust and the rule says you have to replay the shot with one stroke penalty. All this guy had to do is replace the ball a couple of inches from the hole, take a one stroke penalty and putt the ball in. The wack he took at the ball doesn't even count for anything. I don't have the rule number but I'll look it up tomorrow and let you know.

[BC MIST]

The proper procedure would have been to declare the ball unplayable BEFORE he picked up his ball.

In fact, if he has knocked it away in disgust, the player is not required to declare the ball unplayable. He simply places the ball at the point on the green from which it was knocked away, and putts out, adding a penalty stroke. While it is, in effect, the same as declaring it unplayable, he is not required to say the words.

Decision 18-2a/23
The competitor shall replace the ball under penalty of 1 stroke... The competitor is not considered to have made a stroke.

[broken27]

Wow, such a silly rule... OKay, thanks for clearing it all up for me fellas. I'm going to have a completely different outlook on certain lies now. I'm going to be calling just about everything unplayable if it's in the bunker or fescue. Wonder how my scores will be affected...

As for buddy swinging at his ball in disgust on the green, is there a difference if he makes contact with the green and takes a chunk out of it? I seem to recall BCMIST posting something about a young fellow who did something of that nature at the Tunis (or another tourney) this year...

Dan

[NoBack]

Wow, such a silly rule... OKay, thanks for clearing it all up for me fellas. I'm going to have a completely different outlook on certain lies now. I'm going to be calling just about everything unplayable if it's in the bunker or fescue. Wonder how my scores will be affected...
Dan

It will add up quickly Dan.

[ricmar]

For Joe who hit is ball in disgust, if I understand Decision 18-2a/23, it is not the same as declaring the ball unplayable because he doesn't have to count the "stroke" he hit in disgust since according to the rules it is not defined as a stroke. In the case of an unplayable ball, you have to count the stroke that put you in trouble, add a penalty of one shot and replay the shot.

[Big_duck]

I'm going to be calling just about everything unplayable if it's in the bunker or fescue. Dan

Just remember, if you declare it unplayable in a bunker, you still must drop it in the bunker.

[Gary Hill]

Just remember, if you declare it unplayable in a bunker, you still must drop it in the bunker.

WRONG!!!

[jimrobin]

Just remember, if you declare it unplayable in a bunker, you still must drop it in the bunker.

NOT!

You go back to where the last shot was played from.
i.e If it was a tee shot that went into the bunker and you declare your ball in the bunker unplayable, you would return to the tee and be hitting your 3rd shot. If the shot was from the middle of the fairway you go back to that spot.

[Gary Hill]

You go back to where the last shot was played from.

WRONG!!!

[EDSGOLF]

You drop it 2 club lengths from that spot or go back as far as you want keeping that line with the flag.

[Gary Hill]

You drop it 2 club lengths from that spot or go back as far as you want keeping that line with the flag.

WRONG!!!

[Kilroy]

Rule 28. Ball Unplayable
The player may deem his ball unplayable at any place on the course except when the ball is in a water hazard. The player is the sole judge as to whether his ball is unplayable.

If the player deems his ball to be unplayable, he must, under penalty of one stroke:
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b. Drop a ball behind the point where the ball lay, keeping that point directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind that point the ball may be dropped; or

c. Drop a ball within two club-lengths of the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole.

If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.

The ball may be lifted and cleaned when proceeding under this Rule

Therefore he may return to the original shot (stroke and distance), or take option b or c but then he must stay in the bunker.

[Gary Hill]

RIGHT!!!