FX and FX2 from GSA?

[bubba22]

Looks like Martin has a new product FX and FX2 sensor mats. Not much info on the website about reflective/shadow etc. Any ideas Z? Martin sure spreads himself thin. Its hard to know what is real/available/only a thought/coming soon etc if you know what I mean.

Link http://www.golfsimfactory.com/ElectronicSensors.htm

[ZMax]

Looks like Martin has a new product FX and FX2 sensor mats. Not much info on the website about reflective/shadow etc. Any ideas Z? Martin sure spreads himself thin. Its hard to know what is real/available/only a thought/coming soon etc if you know what I mean.

Link http://www.golfsimfactory.com/ElectronicSensors.htm

Not a clue. Just that they don't detech club path. So, what's the market for these? I don't get it.

[bubba22]

Perhaps he is trying to compete with the DD or P3pro. I am not sure what the deal is here.

[ZMax]

Perhaps he is trying to compete with the DD or P3pro. I am not sure what the deal is here.

Without club path? Maybe it's a mistake on the page?

[Dave W]

Probably less sensors.

[martinGSA]

Hi all,

thanks for your interest in all my new products. I must admit I have a tendency to dream up new products in the middle of the night and by the morning they're on the web site with a payPal button.

FX1 and FX2 are going into production this week though. They only measure club speed and face angle at impact to the ball but it allows customers on a budget to get going and is an alternattive to my competitors in this price range. Comes complete with GSA and ProX software.

My latest dream product is the PX4. This is already in production and offers just about all a serious golfer will need in a low cost simulator. Features vertical launch angle camera with 5ft optical trigger array, full club tracking and the full version of the GSA Golf software with 65 courses for under 5 grand.

[ZMax]

My latest dream product is the PX4. This is already in production and offers just about all a serious golfer will need in a low cost simulator. Features vertical launch angle camera with 5ft optical trigger array, full club tracking and the full version of the GSA Golf software with 65 courses for under 5 grand.

Nice to see you posting here Martin. The PX4 sounds like a great product with at a great price.

[bubba22]

Martin what about the adx and the lx launch monitors? How is the PX4 different than a PX2/3 with the launch angle cam? Is there ball tracking with the PX4?

[ZMax]

Martin what about the adx and the lx launch monitors? How is the PX4 different than a PX2/3 with the launch angle cam? Is there ball tracking with the PX4?

Good questions bubba22. I don't know when he'll be back to answer your questions, but my guess on the PX4 is that it's a PX2 with a trigger array and a LA cam. Perhaps the trigger array will provide the ball path data. The PX3 already has a ball detection sensor and a trigger for a LA cam so a trigger array is not needed, for a LA cam anyway.

[bubba22]

I think your right Z. I think he is smart to package it at a good price like that and concentrate on the good products he has.

[ZMax]

PX4
package includes
Vertical launch angle and ball speed camera with trigger
PX2 club tracking sensor mat
GSA full version software with 65 golf courses plus 20 ProX courses
Price $ 4,999.00Product No. #100614

It doesn't say anything about ball path...

[bubba22]

Your rightr Z, it doesn't say ball path. What do you think is the trigger for the PX4? Is it the mat itself?

[ZMax]

Your rightr Z, it doesn't say ball path. What do you think is the trigger for the PX4? Is it the mat itself?

No, it's actually a trigger array. Which makes it an awesome deal. The competition better pay attention.

Lower prices for everybody...

[bubba22]

So is the trigger array another sensor like the mx that the ball triggers the camera?

[ZMax]

So is the trigger array another sensor like the mx that the ball triggers the camera?

Yes, but the trigger array measures about 5 ft from side to side.

XD2r.jpgXD1r.jpg

[bubba22]

Can they messure ball direction I wonder? Great deal though.

[ZMax]

I don't know. I'll try to find out.

[martinGSA]

I don't know. I'll try to find out.

Agreed, that is somewhat of a deception on my side. Ball path with the PX4 is calculated from a ratio of club head path and club face angle at impact to ball so is not quite as accurate as that measured from a ball path camera.

I'll be designing an optical camera trigger within the next weeks that will address this matter but not too sure if the price of this product will be much less than the price of a ball path detection camera.

I've reduced the price of our ball path camera to $999 (which is very accurate) and isn't more expensive than an optical ball track / camera trigger.

Not too sure which method to pursue here though as I know a lot of people feel intimidated by the relative complexity of camera setups.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

(PS. sorry about the mispellings. I miss my good old spell checker here)

Martin

[ZMax]

I'll be designing an optical camera trigger within the next weeks that will address this matter but not too sure if the price of this product will be much less than the price of a ball path detection camera.

I thought the XD ball track already does this, when modded with a camera trigger. I don't see it on your website. Correct me if I'm wrong but the ball path camera will always be more accurate than an optical ball sensor, right? Especially when the ball is not directly below the light source.

[bubba22]

Good questions!

[mmlincon]

I have the XD ball track and it does measure ball path. I am using a camera for ball path now, but the XD track can do it. The only down side with using the XD track for path is the ball shadow. The closer the ball is to the light the larger the shadow, so the software does some calculations to compensate for this. Martin may have discontinued production of the XD tracks as I haven't seen them on the site for some time. I do not know if the Camera Trigger array can measure path, it sounds like it does not.

I am interested in the line scan cameras triggers as it would eliminate the need for the slots in the putting surface and the IR triggers. However, everything is working so well now I don't want to mess with it too much. I may look into this in the fall.

[martinGSA]

I've discontinued the XD ball tracks for the moment due to the high demand on camera technology. (Have to go with the wind you know.)

Anyway, cameras are far more accurate than all those hundreds of sensors.

Having said that though I'll probably still go ahead and modify the new 5ft optical sensor camera trigger so that it will detect ball path for those that (for what ever reason) don't want to use cameras.

[stevnkrn]

I have the XD ball track and it does measure ball path. I am using a camera for ball path now, but the XD track can do it. The only down side with using the XD track for path is the ball shadow. The closer the ball is to the light the larger the shadow, so the software does some calculations to compensate for this. Martin may have discontinued production of the XD tracks as I haven't seen them on the site for some time. I do not know if the Camera Trigger array can measure path, it sounds like it does not.

I am interested in the line scan cameras triggers as it would eliminate the need for the slots in the putting surface and the IR triggers. However, everything is working so well now I don't want to mess with it too much. I may look into this in the fall.

Not having to putt over a slot in the floor has a lot of appeal to me. I've heard nothing about line scan cameras. Is this something in the works at GSA? Would they replace the traditional cameras for launch, path and spin? Will they cost more? Is this the same thing as the firewire cameras referred to a couple of times in this thread? I don't expect that you know all the answers, but anything you do know would be appreciated.

[bubba22]

Not having to putt over a slot in the floor has a lot of appeal to me. I've heard nothing about line scan cameras. Is this something in the works at GSA? Would they replace the traditional cameras for launch, path and spin? Will they cost more? Is this the same thing as the firewire cameras referred to a couple of times in this thread? I don't expect that you know all the answers, but anything you do know would be appreciated.

I am sure Martin can answer these questions...

[ZMax]

Not having to putt over a slot in the floor has a lot of appeal to me. I've heard nothing about line scan cameras. Is this something in the works at GSA? Would they replace the traditional cameras for launch, path and spin? Will they cost more? Is this the same thing as the firewire cameras referred to a couple of times in this thread? I don't expect that you know all the answers, but anything you do know would be appreciated.

I think I saw these on his site a while back. This is just an educated guess on my part but here are my answers to your questions:

Don't know, no, no, and no....

I believe the line scan camera is just a replacement for the trigger array. It probably doesn't even communicate with the software. When it detects an object in it's FOV, it sends a trigger signal to the other cameras. That's it I think.

[martinGSA]

correct. The line scan camera is just a replacement for the current optical camera trigger array.

It's very expensive though so I will probably drop it in favour of the FireWire cameras that run at 100 fps.

This are also expensive though and I doubt that they will work as well as the current trigger cameras.

If using two or more cameras the image grabbing and processing at 200 fps plus will be great and probably cause other problems so I'm not in hurry to get these to market. Especially if they require a second processing unit (ie PC) to reduce the overhead on the host PC which is very busy rendering complex graphics.

Our current trigger array and cameras work great so I'd like to concerntrate on the other new products like the LX.

[bubba22]

So Martin the best option now is the trigger cam. As well the firewire and line scan cam will be more expensive and require more processing power. When are the lx monitors going to be available? What will the trigger for those be?

[ZMax]

For the LX.

Features 1 to 4 cameras, single USB connection to PC, IR ball sensor trigger for indoor use, microphone trigger for outdoor use, high power strobe LED.



Martin,

Concentrating on the LX is a great idea. Especially if it can be integrated with the other GGS systems such as the PX2. Current GSA owners would save money on the simulation software. Not to mention the ability to upgrade to Red Chain's new engine. Folks with a GGS sensor mat now could add the LX for ball data for indoor simulation and then take the LX outside for a little range time.

[stevnkrn]

Thanks for the response ZMax, Bubba22 and Martin. I wish there was a trigger that didn't affect the roll of a putt, but I can live with the trigger array if that is the lower cost option.

[martinGSA]

Triggers are by far the best option as then we get the image at the precise instant the ball enters the field of view and don't have to illuminate all the the way to the screen.

The LX uses a reflex sensor to trigger the camera. That consists of a strong IR LED emitter and a sensor. As soon as the club passes by, the reflection back from the IR emitter to the sensor generates a trigger sensor to the camera. At the same time a super powerful LED strobe light is triggered.

We get great sharp images like this so image processing is quite easy.

There's still a bit of development work to do but hope to be out on the market with this in the summer.