How to hit the draw shot?

[BC MIST]

Since you've decided to define draw and fade. Then everything you say on this matter is accurate. Though, I don't define fade the same way as YOU. There's two was to start the ball left of the target. 1) Is to have the club path come outside the target line by swing mechanics. And 2) alignment. Both produce the fade you described. Either way. You've hit a fade. The problem is you can't describe to someone how to change it if you don't know which one they're doing.
You seem to accept the definition of a pure draw as described above(BTW: These are not my definitions), but not the pure fade. If pushes and pulls are opposites, slices and hooks are opposites, then fades and draws are opposites, and so their causes are also opposites. So if a draw is an inside path with a slightly open club face, then a fade is an outside path with a slightly closed club face. In both cases the ball comes back to the line established by the player's body alignment at address.

What you describe in #1 above would be a pure fade, however, #2 is a slice, regardless of how slight the amount of slice is. If your body is aligned to the target, then your stance is square. If your path is square but the face angle is slightly open, then the ball will start straight and gently curve to the right and right of your target. Not wanting to be right of target, you align your body left of the target, contact the ball with the same square to your body line path with the slightly open face, and the ball starts left and curves to the target. (Your #2 above). This is a "baby" slice: it is not a pure fade. I understand that we call a very small amount of curvature, a fade or a draw, but it is the root cause of this curvature that determines whether it is a pure fade or a pure draw, not just that it curves right or left. I guess that if we were in agreement in our definitions of a fade and a draw, we would not be having this exchange

With my swing, my clubhead path is always from the inside so my ball flight is always straight or with a slight draw. I do not fade the ball, ever, however, I can curve the ball from left to right by setting up exactly as you described in your #2, and in similar manner I can curve the ball from right to left by setting up in the opposite manner. Neither of these two setup positions produce a pure fade or pure draw, but a small slice or hook, instead. Ironically, my natural flight if it curves is a draw, but I cannot hook with as much accuracy as when hitting a "fade," which is not natural for me. Frankly, if I had the choice and if I was a long hitter, I would prefer to play with a left to right flight pattern, as the under and up flight of the left to right shot is more accurate than the over and down flight of a right to left shot. The former stops more quickly on the greens as well.

For someone else who might read this, your #1 above is a cut shot, but your #2 is not.

I play with golfers who occasionally describe a shot as having topspin and my comment was directed at those who think that way and not specifically at you, however, it's now easy to see that you would take it as an insult. For that I apologize.







If the definitions of a pure fade and a pure draw are either not understood or accepted, then I guess one describe a fade, slice, hook, pull, push, draw, any way they want. Of course, there are still some golfers who think that a low shot that runs a long way does so because it is hit with topspin.
This is just plain insulting. At least your consistent.[/QUOTE]

[Andru]

BC_MIST

Sorry I was in a foul mood and probably took it too personally.

I can agree on your definition of fade. Then Vj and Tiger ( in his prime ) hit a cut shot. I like the cut shot. It's so small though. I hate calling it a cut. It's pretty straight.

I play whatever I have on the range that day. Some days it's a tiny draw other days it's a cut. I've found my best days are when I cut it slightly.

The shot I've been having fun with in this wind is a low punch draw in to the wind.

Happy Thanks Giving.