How to hit the draw shot?

[zhangtony]

Right now I can hit the fade shot. The distance is from
240 to 260 yards. My ball will roll forward. But the ball
should roll to the right if it's the fade. Few times I
hit the draw shot but my ball roll to the left. I never know
how I hit these draw shots. My ball will go to the left or
straight if try to repeat the draw shot. My posture and
stance keeps the same.

it's much easier for me to repeat the fade shots.

[Andru]

Good gawd zhangtony stay with the fade if you can control it. The draw is the worst evil and myth known to golf.

Just an opinion.

[Chieflongtee]

Good gawd zhangtony stay with the fade if you can control it. The draw is the worst evil and myth known to golf.

Just an opinion.

And why is that Andru may I ask? A friend of mine draws the ball all the time and shoots regularly under 75.

[faldo]

Exactly. The Pros have total control over a fade as they know how straight & far it'll roll when it lands. Only hit a Draw when you're stuck behind a tree. And Good Luck then!!!!

[NoBack]

The only time I can draw a ball if my buddies give a piece of paper and a pencil. And even then, I dont draw in enough dimples.

[Chieflongtee]

Exactly. The Pros have total control over a fade as they know how straight & far it'll roll when it lands. Only hit a Draw when you're stuck behind a tree. And Good Luck then!!!!

Are we talking about a slight draw or a vicious hook? IMO a slight draw is a perfect swing and a fade/slice is not so perfect.

[nice_lag]

Good gawd zhangtony stay with the fade if you can control it. The draw is the worst evil and myth known to golf.

Just an opinion.

I have lowered my handicap by 6 strokes (14 to 8) having learned to play a draw. That is what I play with all my irons and fairway woods now and have a slight one with my driver. It's pretty simple... Inside-out club path with club face closing at impact. The ball has to be hit with a clubface squared or slightly opened (1-2 degrees but the clubface HAS to be closing as you impact). This gives me a 4-5 yard draw. Something for you to work on during the winter time.

[Chieflongtee]

I have lowered my handicap by 6 strokes (14 to 8) having learned to play a draw. That is what I play with all my irons and fairway woods now and have a slight one with my driver. It's pretty simple... Inside-out club path with club face closing at impact. The ball has to be hit with a clubface squared or slightly opened (1-2 degrees but the clubface HAS to be closing as you impact). This gives me a 4-5 yard draw. Something for you to work on during the winter time.

If you do it over and over then you can predict the outcome and take one side of the fairway out of play. From what I gather the original poster seems to be doing both without knowing how. It gets a little more complicated if you slice and draw sometimes. If you set up left expecting a fade and end up hitting a draw you are in deep poop.

[BC MIST]

Good gawd zhangtony stay with the fade if you can control it. The draw is the worst evil and myth known to golf.
Just an opinion.

Don't mean to put words into your mouth but I suspect that you are referring to a HOOK when you call it the worst evil know to golf. A gentle draw is the prettiest shot in golf(IMO).

A pure draw results from an inside path to the ball with a slightly open clubface in the approximate ratio of 3*:2*. (From some golf science book). If the path is inside and the clubface is square or closed, or if the path is square and the face is closed, the ball will hook way left. Evil is too polite a word to describe this kind of shot. If the golfer is striving for perfection, then he needs an inside path, on plane and hands ahead of the ball at impact, swing motion. This invariable leads to a pure draw shot. However, as more golfers swing from the outside, there are more faders than drawers. Choose your poison.

A fade will fly higher and be shorter in distance than a draw with comparable swing speed. Fades stop faster; draws will run more upon touchdown. It is advantageous for long hitters to fade the ball, whereas shorter hitters can benefit from the longer roll of the draw shot. As was mentioned above, it is also advantageous to have the ball curve only one way as it increases the margin of error. Those of us who hit it straight, or don't know where the ball is going, have to aim down the middle, and pray a little.

It is great to be able to go both ways, in golf that is.

[Andru]

And why is that Andru may I ask? A friend of mine draws the ball all the time and shoots regularly under 75.

The best player in the world fades the ball and he avg. in the 60's so what.

The guy stated he fades the ball with control. To a fader the draw ball is evil. If you're off with a fade player. You're misses are to the nth degree to the right ( for a righty ) If you're off with a draw your misses can go left OR right. That sucks. If you can draw the ball under control good for you.

Play whatever you do best. After reading the information zhangtony provided about his golf game. I don't think anyone would disagree with what I said. I'm not making any assumptions. If this is a theo[rhe]tical discussion about draw vs. fade ( not slice ). Then that's a different story. We can start another thread.

[Andru]

Don't mean to put words into your mouth but I suspect that you are referring to a HOOK when you call it the worst evil know to golf. A gentle draw is the prettiest shot in golf(IMO).

A pure draw results from an inside path to the ball with a slightly open clubface in the approximate ratio of 3*:2*. (From some golf science book). If the path is inside and the clubface is square or closed, or if the path is square and the face is closed, the ball will hook way left. Evil is too polite a word to describe this kind of shot. If the golfer is striving for perfection, then he needs an inside path, on plane and hands ahead of the ball at impact, swing motion. This invariable leads to a pure draw shot. However, as more golfers swing from the outside, there are more faders than drawers. Choose your poison.

A fade will fly higher and be shorter in distance than a draw with comparable swing speed. Fades stop faster; draws will run more upon touchdown. It is advantageous for long hitters to fade the ball, whereas shorter hitters can benefit from the longer roll of the draw shot. As was mentioned above, it is also advantageous to have the ball curve only one way as it increases the margin of error. Those of us who hit it straight, or don't know where the ball is going, have to aim down the middle, and pray a little.

It is great to be able to go both ways, in golf that is.

BC_MIST

It's just a difference in ideaology. I know the shot your talking about. The 4 yard draw starts a tiny bit right of the target and flies curves softly at it. I've seen some PGA tour players play it. The IMHO nicest shot in golf is the shot tiger use to play and the one VJ plays now. The ball flies dead straight and high. at the apex of the flight it falls a tiny bit to the right. I watched vj hit these shots for an hour at the CanOpen this year it was unreal. It's modern vs. traditional thing. They both work if you know where it's going.

Here's a great example. I played with a guy a few weeks ago. He loves the sound of his persimmon woods. Hates metal. It's just a personal preference. Whatever gets the ball closest to the pin is what you should do.

[laxgolf]

Learning how to draw the ball has helped me tremendously since my natural shot is a fade. Depending on where the trouble is, I can choose whichever side of the fairway I want and hope for the best. I also draw the ball when I need to hit a specific iron 5-10 yards further. Once you learn to control a draw it's a huge help. Ben Hogan once said that a straight shot is a mistake.

Here's how I do it. I align my feet to where I want the ball to start out and point my club face at the target where I want to land. Put a normal swing on it and voila.

[themob]

I am a natural(my normal no thinking swing) draw ball hitter. Maybe 10 yds with a driver, less as lofts increase. I usually have my feet total square pointing at target and swing(from the inside). I think grip has a fair bit of reason why my clubface closes at impact as it is rather strong. I've noticed with a weaker grip it mostly stays straight.

To hit a fade i move my front foot back, theus creating an open stance. Here i feel that i can't come from the inside as much and the ball is able to fade a bit. I think i learned this from Gary Player, but i'm not sure. I know Nicklaus teaches the point feet at the starting point and club face at target to draw/fade the ball, but i never had any success with it.

I think clubs make a big difference to tha ability to work the ball too. If you have big callaway irons, they wont work as much as nice blades. Thats just the forgiveness factor.


Learn to hit the ball straight 95% of the time first.

[Chieflongtee]

[QUOTE=Andru]BC_MIST

It's just a difference in ideaology. I know the shot your talking about. The 4 yard draw starts a tiny bit right of the target and flies curves softly at it. I've seen some PGA tour players play it. The IMHO nicest shot in golf is the shot tiger use to play and the one VJ plays now. The ball flies dead straight and high. at the apex of the flight it falls a tiny bit to the right. I watched vj hit these shots for an hour at the CanOpen this year it was unreal. It's modern vs. traditional thing. They both work if you know where it's going.

Andru. Rumor has it that VJ plays with a 5* open face driver. Is it true?

[kewarken]

Taylormade r7 quad. 10.5*. Even the long hitting pros don't often use the really low lofted drivers.

http://www.thegolfchannel.com/core.a...0&select=11146

cheers,

Kris

[Chieflongtee]

2 things struck me as i checked out the website. 1) It does not say if VJ's driver has been modified or altered.(5*open). 2) Right next to it it says buy one now. :reallymad

[nice_lag]

I knew that I had read something about that in the past...

From Golf Digest Magazine, July 2004, p.192:

"I play a TaylorMade R510 (this one says 9.5 but I now play a 10.5) with an X-Flex Mitsubishi Rayon Shaft. I might switch to TaylorMade's new adjustable r7 Quad TP because my driver has a 5-degree open face and a strip of lead tape on the toe for a D-7 swingweight"

Obviously he has made the switch to the r7.

[Andru]

I have lowered my handicap by 6 strokes (14 to 8) having learned to play a draw. That is what I play with all my irons and fairway woods now and have a slight one with my driver. It's pretty simple... Inside-out club path with club face closing at impact. The ball has to be hit with a clubface squared or slightly opened (1-2 degrees but the clubface HAS to be closing as you impact). This gives me a 4-5 yard draw. Something for you to work on during the winter time.

Nice_lag

FYI I can play both. Thanks but I wasn't asking for advice. That doesn't change my opinion. There's alot of nice players that play a soft fade. If you can control a fade I believe it's the best shot in golf.

[Andru]

[QUOTE=Andre Cantin]

BC_MIST

It's just a difference in ideaology. I know the shot your talking about. The 4 yard draw starts a tiny bit right of the target and flies curves softly at it. I've seen some PGA tour players play it. The IMHO nicest shot in golf is the shot tiger use to play and the one VJ plays now. The ball flies dead straight and high. at the apex of the flight it falls a tiny bit to the right. I watched vj hit these shots for an hour at the CanOpen this year it was unreal. It's modern vs. traditional thing. They both work if you know where it's going.

Andru. Rumor has it that VJ plays with a 5* open face driver. Is it true?

Andre I'm not sure about his driver I know he has the weight screws on his r7 set up for a fade as well I asked him. He does have his 7/9 wood open 5 degrees or something like that. He can swing as hard as he wants an it never turns over right to left. It's beautiful to watch. the ball flies sooo high and straight.

[zhangtony]

Learning how to draw the ball has helped me tremendously since my natural shot is a fade. Depending on where the trouble is, I can choose whichever side of the fairway I want and hope for the best. I also draw the ball when I need to hit a specific iron 5-10 yards further. Once you learn to control a draw it's a huge help. Ben Hogan once said that a straight shot is a mistake.

Here's how I do it. I align my feet to where I want the ball to start out and point my club face at the target where I want to land. Put a normal swing on it and voila.

If I aim left(very small angle and turn my right feet out a little), the fade or straight
shot will come.I hit harder, fly higher but always come back. The only problem is
not let my wrist loose too much.

For draw shot, I aim right(very small angle), the hook or stright shot will come. If
my wrist loose too much, the big hook will come. If I hit harder, the different shots
will come. IT'S so difficult to hit the draw shot.

[nice_lag]

Nice_lag

FYI I can play both. Thanks but I wasn't asking for advice. That doesn't change my opinion. There's alot of nice players that play a soft fade. If you can control a fade I believe it's the best shot in golf.

Good for you... so can I. I guess pressing the wrong "quote" button angers some ppl. Next please...

[Andru]

Good for you... so can I. I guess pressing the wrong "quote" button angers some ppl. Next please...

No one is angry here.

"Next please...."?? Childish.

[golfmania]

Im going to jump in to get back to topic.

I don't think the PGA tour is our comparison base. For most people, myself included, a "natural fade" also had a tendency to become an unnatural slice on some shots. Rarely would the ball CONSISTENTLY be the beautiful fade that Andru is describing, and the original poster describes. If you can do anything consistently great, fade or draw, I dont think it matters that much for OUR game.

For ME, when I learned the draw, my shots have NOW consistently stayed in play. This was not so with my natural fade. So the draw helped me learn to control my shots. Even when I dont get the face closed, the ball tends to push to the right of target instead of slicing off into hell.

I find that its worth trying, anyway....

[Andru]

golfmania

You can make the same argument for a draw turing into a hook.

There's a disconnect here.

There has to be a definiton in place. Don't associate ball flight with swing path when it comes to this. I'm assuming the clubhead path is straight or slightly from the inside. The flight of the ball is determined by the face angle. If you can draw the ball you can fade it. It's just a matter of controlling the face.

Whatever shot you can count on when it's out of bounds left and water right, with a 50 cent skin on the line is the shot you play.

[golfmania]

golfmania

You can make the same argument for a draw turing into a hook.

There's a disconnect here.

There has to be a definiton in place. Don't associate ball flight with swing path when it comes to this. I'm assuming the clubhead path is straight or slightly from the inside. The flight of the ball is determined by the face angle. If you can draw the ball you can fade it. It's just a matter of controlling the face.

This is true Andru, but you and I both know the answer to this question: which is the more common problem for joe-average golfer, the hook or the slice...the slice. A slice can occur with the face square to target, but the face travelling from outside to in...putting side-spin on the ball. Over the top is a bigger problem for novice golfers than most other problems combined, and certainly becomes a lessor problem for those who understand inside to out shots...you cant do a draw with an over the top move.

Learning to close or open the face with an over the top move will only produce a slice or a pull...same problem.

Sure a hook can be a problem that develops as easily as a slice, but usually if you go from draw to hook, you can solve the problem because you know how you developed the draw in the first place. I started hooking recently (no jokes please), realized my grip had become quite strong...far too strong. I've since adjusted, problem solved.

So I dont agree.

[Chieflongtee]

My hero. The only one that can hit a draw.

[Andru]

So I dont agree.

You don't have to. If we were debating What shot plagues the average golfer more. Then I suppose you have a point. That's not what I'm debating.

I agree in one sense a hook is a more advanced golfers problem. Fixing it easily? No I do not agree. Ask Ian Baker-Finch or Hank Haney.

Let's recap zhangtony exlpained he has a consistent fade shot and sometimes hits a draw, but doesn't know why.

- I threw in rather jokingly "Don't do it".! Then someone ( as usual I might add) defended the draw shot as the be all and end all of golf. I responded stating some facts that in deed it's a great shot, but faders make money on the PGA tour.

- Some clarification on the fade shot.

- Then some blah blah about both.

Now I haven't actually seen him hit a ball, but going by his post. There's NO evidence he's an over the top hitter. Over the top hitters don't hit fades and occasional draws They hit slices and pulls. It sounds like he's right on plane and sometimes gets the face to turn over a bit.

Just my take I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the frist time and it won't be the last.

Cheers

[BC MIST]

There has to be a definiton in place. Don't associate ball flight with swing path when it comes to this. I'm assuming the clubhead path is straight or slightly from the inside. The flight of the ball is determined by the face angle.
There are only 9 ball flight patterns. The face angle can be square, open or closed, while the path at separation can be from the inside, on line or outside. 3 X 3 = 9.
The flight of the ball is determined by the face angle AND the path of the club head, not JUST the face angle.

If you can draw the ball you can fade it. It's just a matter of controlling the face If you understand that a draw is a shot that starts right of target line and curves back to the target line, then every other right to left shot is a hook to some degree. Also, fade is a shot that starts left of target line and curves back to the target line, then every other shot left to right shot is a slice, to some degree. So not all slices are fades, but some think so, and not all draws are hooks, but some think so, just like not all colas are Cokes. Now, if I normally draw the ball, which means an inside path with a slightly open club face at separation, it is impossible to fade the ball "just a matter of controlling the face." because the path HAS to be from the outside, to produce a fade. Only the truly talented can swing from the inside and the outside, at the same time.

Over the top hitters don't hit fades and occasional draws They hit slices and pulls. Can they hit a hook? A pull hook?

The ball flies dead straight and high. at the apex of the flight it falls a tiny bit to the right
A ball flying "dead straight and high," is obviously hit with PURE BACKSPIN, ie., no side spin. Therefore, at separation, the path is on-line and the club face is perfectly square. Then, "at the apex of the flight it falls a tiny bit to the right." This means that the ball has suddenly developed a small amount of sidespin in mid air, but had none for the first 200 yards or so. Sorry, if the ball had side spin at the end, it had it at the beginning, so the face angle was slightly open relative to the path. Because of the high ball speed just after impact, the effect of this sidespin would be less apparent, however, as the ball slows down, it curves more. It's just like a 60 foot curving putt: it breaks more at the end than at the beginning.

If the definitions of a pure fade and a pure draw are either not understood or accepted, then I guess one describe a fade, slice, hook, pull, push, draw, any way they want. Of course, there are still some golfers who think that a low shot that runs a long way does so because it is hit with topspin.

[golfmania]

You don't have to.

Just my take I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the frist time and it won't be the last.

No, you're not wrong, and I agree. But the conversation came down to (in the last post I was replying to) a hook can develop as easily as a slice. And my answer is, no, I don't think it does.

If the original poster doesn't know why hes hitting the draw, then he also doesnt know why hes hitting the fade. The one thing that learning a draw shot DOES do is makes you realize WHY you're hitting draws and WHY you're hitting fades.

So to go back to the original post, YES...learn a draw shot. It helps you understand whats going on in the swing. Its just not the end-all-be-all of golf, which I think you and I, Andru, and probably everyone here, agree upon. And yes, if your shot is consistent, and you know where the ball will land each time, dont bother changing (unless you enjoy learning new things)...if it aint broke, dont fix it.

Yes, those pros couldn't unlearn the hook, and there were other pros who melted down for other reasons...to say unlearning the hook is something they couldn't overcome is purely speculative...its more likely something far more psychologically based...theres no explaining what happened to Duval, and I doubt its physical-based. By the way, I don't think comparing with pros works....its like saying dont bother learning how to do a layup, just leap the 10 feet the way Michael Jordan does....

Just my opinion. Oh and have a good thanksgiving and a relaxing holiday.

[Andru]

There are only 9 ball flight patterns. The face angle can be square, open or closed, while the path at separation can be from the inside, on line or outside. 3 X 3 = 9.
The flight of the ball is determined by the face angle AND the path of the club head, not JUST the face angle.
Yes I know this. We're not talking about 9 patterns here. I'm talking about one. straight at the ball. Face angle becomes the ONLY factor for ball direction. I was simply illustrating a simple example of hitting a fade without coming over the top.

If you understand that a draw is a shot that starts right of target line and curves back to the target line, then every other right to left shot is a hook to some degree. Also, fade is a shot that starts left of target line and curves back to the target line,

Since you've decided to define draw and fade. Then everything you say on this matter is accurate. Though, I don't define fade the same way as YOU. There's two was to start the ball left of the target. 1) Is to have the club path come outside the target line by swing mechanics. And 2) alignment. Both produce the fade you described. Either way. You've hit a fade. The problem is you can't describe to someone how to change it if you don't know which one they're doing.

Can they hit a hook? A pull hook?
They can yes. The poster didn't say it was a pull hook he said it was a draw.


A ball flying "dead straight and high," is obviously hit with PURE BACKSPIN, ie., no side spin. Therefore, at separation, the path is on-line and the club face is perfectly square. Then, "at the apex of the flight it falls a tiny bit to the right." This means that the ball has suddenly developed a small amount of sidespin in mid air, but had none for the first 200 yards or so. Sorry, if the ball had side spin at the end, it had it at the beginning, so the face angle was slightly open relative to the path. Because of the high ball speed just after impact, the effect of this sidespin would be less apparent, however, as the ball slows down, it curves more. It's just like a 60 foot curving putt: it breaks more at the end than at the beginning.


Was this whole exercise really necessary? In the context of my post you quoted it's the shot I prefer vs. the draw you enjoy. If I decided to change the post to "My favourite shot is the one that has a minor amount of side spin that starts right at the target and as the ball loses it's speed in flight. The side spin takes effect and the ball fades slightly." I agree that sounds much better.

If the definitions of a pure fade and a pure draw are either not understood or accepted, then I guess one describe a fade, slice, hook, pull, push, draw, any way they want. Of course, there are still some golfers who think that a low shot that runs a long way does so because it is hit with topspin.
This is just plain insulting. At least your consistent.