novice2scratch

[jvincent]

Long way from scratch.

The DanPlan guy is not just trying to get to scratch either. He thinks he can get a PGA Tour card at Q-school after 10,000 hours.

[jvincent]

I just checked the DanPlan guys blog.

After almost two years of practice he has played his first two rounds on a regulation course. He shot 97 and 91 from the white tees.

He's so far away from a tour card that it's not funny and he doesn't realize it.

[DenisO]

I wonder if it's just the shock from playing a golf course and course management? Practicing for 2 years?!? You must be pretty decent at striking the ball by then, and the short game can't be that bad either. I'd like to hope that his scores will improve drastically, otherwise, what a waste of 2 years

[jvincent]

He plans on wasting a full five years. I haven't followed the full blog yet but I don't think he's even put driver into play yet.

IMHO, his teachers aren't going about it correctly.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Have to agree with Vincent, if your hand eye suck's you will never be a good golfer,

I disagree, golf is a broader game than this. I think most people have the potential to become fine golfers.

[jvincent]

What's your definition of fine?

There are many, many golfers who after years of playing, practice, lessons will never legitimately break 80. This doesn't mean that they can't have fun playing, it just means that they will never be really good.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I don't think that's because they lack the hand eye coordination to play the game. Half the game is on and around the grees, the other half is in your head, that leaves hitting the ball and I don't think you have to strike it like Tiger to play in the 70s, 'course I don't really know cause I'm still one of those who hasn't broken 80.

[mjf]

I don't think that's because they lack the hand eye coordination to play the game. Half the game is on and around the grees, the other half is in your head, that leaves hitting the ball and I don't think you have to strike it like Tiger to play in the 70s, 'course I don't really know cause I'm still one of those who hasn't broken 80.

I think you should check your calculations in that equation.

[jvincent]

Half the game is on and around the greens

Notwithstanding the bad math, this is 100% wrong and gets repeated over and over. The statistics show that this is false.

Having a great short game is ONLY going to help you if you are averaging 12 GIR per round, which is the tour average. Saving bogey and double bogey doesn't get you to scratch.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Well, point taken, but short game isn't just putting, it's chipping and pitching from just off the green. Many of the low cappers I've seen got a lot of par saves from off the green and were excellent pitchers chippers and putters. Tigermania has made too much about the athletic striping of the ball IMO, long and true as he's been, what seperates Tiger from the rest of the tour is his short game.

There's a lot of great ball strikers that never bubbled up to the very top and I think part of it is because striping the ball was the only thing they took seriously, like Sergio, man can he hit that ball, but the rest of his game is miles behind. I just can't believe he cared much about anything else. Maybe I'm wrong.

[DenisO]

John, what is the key then to getting to scratch then when you're that low? At that point, it has to be sinking more putts (getting in position to sink more putts with approach shot too).
I think I'm going to experiment with a belly putter by the way.
Haters gonna hate

[jvincent]

I'll say it again, Tiger (and all the other tour pros) can only rely on their short game because they get the ball either on or very close to the green in regulation with startling regularity.

Those low handicappers are usually pretty close to the green in regulation. That means they aren't hitting the ball OB or into hazards off the tee very often. Trust me, it only takes a couple of those a round to push a round from the 70's into the 80's.

Taking the guy from the DanPlan as an example, if he can't reach 50% GIR he has zero chance of getting his card.

Sergio is actually above average in scrambling, GIR, and scoring average. He is, by tour standards a terrible putter. If he ever figured that out he would dominate. Just like Vijay Singh and Ernie Els this year.

[jvincent]

John, what is the key then to getting to scratch then when you're that low?

Not sure what you're asking but let's use an example.

Let's say I average 10 GIR and break down my scorring.

What happens on the other 8 holes? Let's say on average I lose one ball off the tee to either a hazard, lost ball or OB. Average 1.5 strokes over par (combination of one or two stroke penalties) for that.

On the remaining 7 holes I get up and down on 4 of them for par, pretty good average, and make bogey on the other 3. So I am now averaging 4.5 strokes over par on the holes I miss the green on.

So, for the 10 holes I hit the green I need to average about 3 under par to get to scratch. Yes, that adds up to 1.5 over par but I am assuming you are playing a course that has an over par rating and high slope.

If you add up the putts for the above analysis, you get a number of 29. That's about the tour average.

Simple no?

[Break68]

Um, I will stick to trying to get my drives in the fairway and my approaches near the green. I pray I some day learn to putt.

[Break68]

I just re-read your post a couple of times, it actually makes sense now.
It is simple, just not easy.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Trust me, it only takes a couple of those a round to push a round from the 70's into the 80's.

Ya I know all too well, but you don't need the hand eye coordination of a magician to pull that off.


So the anatomy of a scratch round for a regular player, I've been thinking about this lately.

Hit half the greens solidly
haunt another 5

In the above I'll call one birdie on an overpowered par 5 and one for hitting it stiff, one for a good putt, one three putt, and 1 bogey from just off.
That's -1 even with 4 holes left, say a good up and down, but also a double, 3 over. Not scratch, but close on a hard course.

Lesson? 3 or more birdies is nice and if ya hit less than 10 greens you need some good up and downs, or really take it to the par 5s.

[nokids]

I want Jvincent as my caddie. What's the rate chief?

[jvincent]

I'm still negotiating with Tiger's people. If that falls through I'll let you know.

[Wknd_Warrior]

this is a neat article

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...2/ai_69073966/

[jvincent]

OK, here's my round from today. Equinelle back tees. Rating of 73.1, slope 127.

I hit 8 GIR. Made 4 birdies and 3-putted for one bogey on those holes.
I hit two balls into hazards and made double on both of those holes.
I missed one green into a terrible spot over the green made another double.
On the remaining seven holes I got up and down for par 3 times and made 4 bogies. Not great but not terrible.

Final score - 79 with 29 putts. Differential for handicap purposes - 5.2.

So, if I wanted to be "scratch" for this round I should all I needed to turn two of those doubles into pars and one extra up and down. Easy in theory, much harder in practice.

[HoganWoods]

Out of curiosity, are you hitting 6 iron + into most of those greens from those tees?

[jvincent]

Not counting the craptacular tee shots that went into the hazards, I hit everything from 5i to gap wedge depending on the wind direction.

[jvincent]

Forgot to mention that I also hit a 2-hybrid on the 223 yard 13th hole.

[nokids]

I just checked the DanPlan guys blog.

After almost two years of practice he has played his first two rounds on a regulation course. He shot 97 and 91 from the white tees.

He's so far away from a tour card that it's not funny and he doesn't realize it.

2,400 hours so far, 1/4 of the way there and he's shooting in the mid 80's. Not gonna cut it.

http://thedanplan.com/stopwatch.php

[jvincent]

No surprise there.

Until his disaster round is an 81 on a tough course, he has no chance of making it through Q-school. This assumes Q-school even exists 3 years from now.

[davevandyk]

2,400 hours so far, 1/4 of the way there and he's shooting in the mid 80's. Not gonna cut it.

http://thedanplan.com/stopwatch.php

Ya he's far from where he needs to be... shooting 89 at a muni course that measures no more than 6500yards.

Having said that, he's gone from nothing to a 20ish capper already... how many people have been playing for decades that can't break 100?
Yes I understand his goal is completely absurd, but I'm sure many successful people were seen as ridiculous when first starting out.

As they say, "Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you'll land among the stars!"

[jvincent]

Having said that, he's gone from nothing to a 20ish capper already... how many people have been playing for decades that can't break 100?

True, but he's done nothing but golf for just over a year. Golf is now his "job".

This is the kind of thing lots of people dream about. If only I could quit my job and do nothing but golf, I could turn pro, etc. The reality is that no matter how much you practice or how well you practice, if you don't have the physical talent and mental toughness built into your DNA, you simply won't make the pro golf tour.

I'm sure that if I made golf my job I could get to scratch or very close. But I bounce around a 5-7 index playing part time and not really practicing. And I'm an old fart compared to the Dan Plan guy. And as we all know scratch is a million miles away from the Tour.

[nokids]

if you don't have the physical talent and mental toughness built into your DNA, you simply won't make the pro golf tour.

IMO, it's all 100% mental. If Mike Weir can win the Masters then physical talent means very little.

Dan the plan guy should already been entering in tournaments to get his mental game in order; otherwise his scratch/plus handicap will be worthless when 10,000 hours are up. He should be playing matches against people for money, BIG MONEY, to see if he has mental fortitude. If I was his coach I'd make him go through hell. None of this 2 hour practice, country club b.s.!

[jvincent]

I am not even close to being a Mike Weir fan, but if you can win on tour, you are a physical freak of nature when it comes to hand eye co-ordination and the ability to control the club head for distance/direction.

I personally think his training plan is/was flawed. He spent too much time early on just hitting putts when he had no concept of the game. Much of that time is wasted effort. He could have started on full swings much earlier.

It will be interesting to see how he does in his first tournament.

[Sakuraba]

If this game was easy, it wouldn't be the same.