GC2 - Something New is Coming

[Kball]

I checked out the GC2 web-site today and it looks like they will be announcing something new at the 2011 PGA Merchandise show later this month. I bet it will be something to due with capturing data on the club path.

I have been considering the GC2 for several months, but haven't been willing to part with that much money! I am getting closer though....

[bubba22]

Kball i really hear you. I bet if it is club data it will be around 2-3 grand. When you add it all up it really is a costly sim. There are probably cheaper options but make no mistake the GC2 is a good sim with what looks like very reliable ball data. If they add the club data it certainly rocks but at a price that is outside most home users range.

[pboon]

Kball i really hear you. I bet if it is club data it will be around 2-3 grand. When you add it all up it really is a costly sim. There are probably cheaper options but make no mistake the GC2 is a good sim with what looks like very reliable ball data. If they add the club data it certainly rocks but at a price that is outside most home users range.

GC2 with fitting software + one course (required if you want courses) will cost around $8400 then add $1200 for a package of 10 courses. They have around 60 courses. It is still unknown when the club data add-on will be in available to buy, how it integrates with the software and at what cost.

[bubba22]

I believe the club cam add on will be revealed in the upcoming PGA show and will be in the 3 grand range. As well I don't think all 60 courses are yet available. Beautiful unit but pricey and not good for left/right golfers.

[blackfire]

GC2 with fitting software + one course (required if you want courses) will cost around $8400 then add $1200 for a package of 10 courses. They have around 60 courses. It is still unknown when the club data add-on will be in available to buy, how it integrates with the software and at what cost.

I spoked with them a few days ago and yes they're coming out with club data. they don't know yet the price or he did'nt what to tell me but they're coming out with it at the PGA show in a few weeks.

[stevnkrn]

I spoked with them a few days ago and yes they're coming out with club data. they don't know yet the price or he did'nt what to tell me but they're coming out with it at the PGA show in a few weeks.

I am really intrigued about the GC2 with club data, but without the upgrade cost information it is difficult to decide on the value. I am a current P3Pro owner and basically like what it has to offer. Do any of you know if you can use a P3Pro and a GC2 simultaneously? I would use the GC2 for the simulator and use and the P3Pro when I want club data on a specific swing. Since I already have the P3Pro it would be pretty cheap to add an Atom based computer and monitor for the swing data. I could use it at the same time I use the GC2 for simulation.

[bubba22]

It depends on what you are looking for. In my opinion it is quite an expensive approach to use the gc2 for simulation only. Don't get me wrong if it is affordable for you then go for it. The GC2 will give you a lot of information that you will probably use such as ball speed, direction, launch and spin. Having the club data will also be cool. I would love to see the 2 of any simulators/launch monitors used simultaneously. Most likely there will be differences in the values detected between the p3pro and GC2. That may be due to the environment, setup etc. I would expect that if there were difference then you would come to favor the GC2 over the P3pro (not knocking the p3pro) due to the increased accuracy of the GC2.

[blackfire]

GC2 with fitting software + one course (required if you want courses) will cost around $8400 then add $1200 for a package of 10 courses. They have around 60 courses. It is still unknown when the club data add-on will be in available to buy, how it integrates with the software and at what cost.

Yhe guy told me that the software won't change. It's ready I presume

[bubba22]

The last I heard they didn't have all the courses ready. Check with them to make sure that they have all the courses. Again, I think you will be very happy with the GC2. It is top notch equipment.

[blackfire]

I don't whant all the courses anyway but yes I'm very happy with my decision just have to get the ona now august or september hope so

[rdh]

Yep - expensive system, but very impressive once that gap is closed. I still have a problem with the left/right hand play though...if they can ever come up with a solution for that (not having to move it constantly) then it will be an incredible system. I had friends over a couple weeks back and there were 6 of us playing and we were split equally (right and left handers) so a system like the GC2 wouldn't have been a real option for that.

[bubba22]

Very good poinr rdh especially in Canada where there are a lot of lefty players.

[blackfire]

Yep - expensive system, but very impressive once that gap is closed. I still have a problem with the left/right hand play though...if they can ever come up with a solution for that (not having to move it constantly) then it will be an incredible system. I had friends over a couple weeks back and there were 6 of us playing and we were split equally (right and left handers) so a system like the GC2 wouldn't have been a real option for that.

for My self My garage is only 11 feet wide so to be able to move the unit is perfect for me.

[bubba22]

Are you planning on buying the GC2 Blckfire?

[blackfire]

Are you planning on buying the GC2 Blckfire?

Yes I am

In august I realy think about it

[bubba22]

Great Blackfire.

[rdh]

Do we really have a higher percentage of lefties in Canada, or was that a joke? Bizarre if it's true....

[bubba22]

I was told we do, probably due to our love of hockey. http://www.badgolfer.com/departments...s-ackwards.htm and http://www.golfinstruction.com/featu...d-golf-278.htm

[js1010]

Yes, in speaking to my rep a few weeks ago he said the head data add-on would be unveiled at the PGA Show at the end of the month. Excited to see this in action. Hopefully the pricing is reasonable...

As far as the lefty/righty thing- yes, this is an issue with the GC2. THey now have it working over Bluetooth so you could use it wirelessly on its rechargeable battery - but obviously you would still need to move the unit around as needed.

I mentioned this issue to my rep at one point and he said they were contemplating a rotating platform of sorts. NOt sure if they ever came through on that or just recommending using bluetooth now that they have that working.

this is still not great solution when playing sim golf with a foursome or more of mixed lefties/righties, however... and something to consider if you are looking at this system.

[rdh]

It's only with a system that detects spin (like the GC2) that you can eliminate the need to enter the club you're using. I agree that would be fantastic - just walk up and hit each shot without the extra step. But, that functionality definitely comes with a price...

I think the club entry could largely be eliminated for non-spin systems (for 90% of shots anyway) through software enhancements. I've sent a request to Red Chain to build this in at some point. If the system did a better job of selecting the club for each shot, it would only be exceptions (playing a punch shot under a tree, etc.) that would require selection. If each player could enter their normal distances (range) for each club, then that would be a start. The system would then need to apply a factor for the lie (rough, sand, etc.), wind, and elevation (i.e. effectively reduce the distance for a steep downhill shot) to suggest the correct club. It would take some work to develop, but it's not rocket science either.

I've also thought about looking into voice-command software to eliminate the walk to the computer and mouse click. i.e. just say "Select 4 iron" to have the system select the club.

[bubba22]

You make a valid point stevnkrn however I personally am not concerned with having to select the club. The ProTee will not measure spin even after the launch cam is in place. It will estimate spin well. Having the launch will greatly improve its ability to measure spin however. I think a caddie feature like RDH said that will allow one to modify club selection for each individual person would be a good feature for future updates. I will put an email into Dean as well for this. Other than that I am not convinced that the accuracy is so high with the GC2 compared to sensor style that measure launch, ball and club that these systems (Pro7,GSA or ProTee) are not worth it. I personally am happy with the estimation of spin. If a well priced spin add on becomes available then great. Again the only way to really know any of this is to test the different sims in an outdoor environment to see how well they can simulate a true ball flight. I am not sure we will ever see that done.

[northgolf]

I'm in the camp with stevnkrn. My reason is not over selecting the club, but more not wanting spin estimated. The actual flight of the ball should be solvable having launch path, launch angle, ball velocity, and spin. If the GC 2 can capture all of those accurately, then the shot behavior should be correct. I am just suspicious of the ball calculations, including spin.

[bubba22]

Everybody has to be comfortable in what they want, what they trust and what they can afford. For me it has always been launch and ball measurement, which the dd/p3pro. I can certainly live with spin estimation and save myself a few thousand dollars. Again that is just me. I have always said, pick the sim that you can afford and are happy with.

[ZMax]

Why are we comparing the ProTee/GGS/P3pro to the GC2?

One is portable and the price difference is too big. The GC2 with just 1 course is more than twice the ProTee and $6500 more than the P3pro.

Btw, are there any real reviews of the GC2? Not magazine pieces or from somebody that sells them.

[js1010]

Lots of GC2 talk - here is some more info for those contemplating.

Overall I am very happy with it. Other than the lack of Clubhead data, currently and the left / right thing – this unit is really great – it simple and just works, and very rarely does it not recognize a shot - What I mean by this is if it didn’t get enough images to be able to do its thing it will tell you – “I didn’t see the shot”. I believe the unit can take up to 10 or so images during impact and then uses all of them in deriving its launch numbers. I believe there is a minimum number of images that it needs to take otherwise it will tell you it didn’t see the shot. I would say this happens 1 in every few hundred shots - other than that it catches every imaginable shot. The other thing about the GC2 is it produces it numbers fast - no waiting. You hit a shot and the ball takes off on the screen - realism of the sim is really good.

I agree with bubba that outdoors you can’t beat trackman as it tracks the ball almost the whole way while any camera based system would have to do a calculation for distance. This calculation is using certain variables to do so.

Temperature, Humidity, Altitude, wind would affect how far a ball flies in real life – so I don’t think a calculation is going to be as spot on as trackman outdoors. I was talking to them about letting us input (temp, altitude, etc) information so that their algorithm would use the numbers of our specific environment in to the distance and offline calculation, or even better a sensor that read in all this info and used it dynamically.

Indoors, however – I think the GC2 is probably up there with the best of them because they all have to calculate distances so it’s a matter of how good the measured numbers are.

My thought process when choosing the GC2 vs sensor based units was I figured that measured launch numbers and a distance calculation was better than a sensor unit trying to determine the launch numbers from the Club Path, where on the club face the ball hit (groove high or low – heel or toe), angle of attack. To me trying to figure out what the spin rates are based on this and then try to compute a distance just can’t be as accurate. - but in the end – I don’t know what the difference is as I have not been able to play around with other Simulators - so I don’t know for sure if it’s worth the extra money. I know that I am very happy with the flight I get now – I am a decent golfer and have hit thousands of shots since I got it.

The only issue with Foresight integration with the software currently is that the distance calculation differs if you are using the unit itself or with the Red Chain Software.

When the Gc2 is used outdoors or on its own it uses its own algorithm for calculation of distance. When plugged in to the Red Chain software it just feeds the measured launch numbers to the software which then it does the distance and offline calculation. The distance numbers when hitting drivers with the Red Chain software is not that good – distances are a short. Foresight know of this and they have told me that Red Chain is using an older algorithm to calculate distance that is not talking into account the lower spin drivers and balls used these days.

They are supposed to release an update this month that will use their algorithm for everything – so they will feed Red Chain all the numbers and they will just render the flight. They have also said that this update will include tweaks to the algorithm based on robot and trackman testing. Maybe this is where these new accuracy numbers are coming from. I still doubt < 1 yard from 100. I would be happy with <3 from 100 and <6 from 300.

Really excited to get this update to see what they have done.

[blackfire]

Tanks js1010,

I fully agree with you and think exacty the same about GC2.

I've had a GGS sensor pad and I now have a P3Pro and the p3pro is more accurate to mesure club data for me as it as tappe but still not happy for a lot's of reasons

1- no ball data
2- I hate tapping my club I'm ending playing only a few of my clubs
3- hard surface to hit form
4- 11 feet garage not giving me enough space to play bolt left and right golfer with a fix system.
5- the surface been so hard I tend to swing differently then I am in real play.
6- can't realy have fun playing when you can't rely on the ball flight

All that together I'm going for the GC2 with realistic turf mat and will add courses and club cam later on.

plannign to buy my GC2 in august hope so(money)

thanks again for your review

[ZMax]

The only issue with Foresight integration with the software currently is that the distance calculation differs if you are using the unit itself or with the Red Chain Software.

When the Gc2 is used outdoors or on its own it uses its own algorithm for calculation of distance. When plugged in to the Red Chain software it just feeds the measured launch numbers to the software which then it does the distance and offline calculation. The distance numbers when hitting drivers with the Red Chain software is not that good – distances are a short. Foresight know of this and they have told me that Red Chain is using an older algorithm to calculate distance that is not talking into account the lower spin drivers and balls used these days.

They are supposed to release an update this month that will use their algorithm for everything – so they will feed Red Chain all the numbers and they will just render the flight. They have also said that this update will include tweaks to the algorithm based on robot and trackman testing. Maybe this is where these new accuracy numbers are coming from. I still doubt < 1 yard from 100. I would be happy with <3 from 100 and <6 from 300.

Really excited to get this update to see what they have done.

Well, I see that the P3pro isn't the only folks with GSA integration issues.

[bubba22]

As RDH always says, the accurracy of any sim depends upon how well it can capture ball and club data as well as what it does with that data (algorythms etc). For distance at least most GSA/Custom Play/Red Chain products have a distance boost.

[js1010]

Yes, I do have boost in my version of the software as well - but this doesn't really work correctly because the iron distances are pretty good just drivers are a bit short so adjusting this up would screw up the irons.

What I have been doing if I am practicing my driver and want to get accurate numbers - I will turn on the audio for the GC2 and it will speak out all the numbers after each shot.

I am confident they will get this going per my last conversation with them. They are planning to release this update for the show as well. Difficulty for them has been trying to implement this in a way to not give up their algorithm is what I was told.

Outside of this algorithm integration issue I don't see any others, really - my other requests to them have been general updates to the REd Chain software to improve game play. Ie: Showing me more distances to harzards, bunkers, front, center, back distances on approach shots, etc. THey have been slow to react on these kind of software feature requests as I think they have all there engineers in lock down working on the club head data stuff.

we shall see in a few weeks..

[bubba22]

Nothing is perfect. Hopefully they will make some changes.