backswing question

[HoganWoods]

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about something and wondering if you can answer me this question:

When your backswing gets to 9o'clock (clubhead straight across from the target), where does your clubhead toe point? The sky? (12 o'clock), 11o'clock? maybe the blade is open at 1 o'clock? Please also specify if you have a habit of pre-setting your wrists.

Thanks,
Rick

[ironmaster15213]

I believe if you just turn with your arms and shoulders together with no wrist motions at all to that point your club head will be around 11 o'clock position. Most instructors will tell you no more than 12 o'clock at hip height. I try to have my club head mimic my spine angle at that point.

[HoganWoods]

Ok that's exactly my feelings too. I've been spending too much of my government time reading golf nonsense! It's poisoning my mind and making me doubt things!

[BC MIST]

When your backswing gets to 9o'clock (clubhead straight across from the target), where does your clubhead toe point? The sky? (12 o'clock), 11o'clock? maybe the blade is open at 1 o'clock? Please also specify if you have a habit of pre-setting your wrists.

Most instruction tells us to have the club face pointing up at hip high, however, a position slightly "closed" at this point is more ideal.

Preset wrists? While obviously unusual, I start all of my full swings from the position shown in the pic below. Reasons?

[HoganWoods]

Ok I've seen that pic before as I like to roam these forums. That to me looks like preseting the wrists. Maybe its just the way I'm seeing it as I'm not a swing guru, am I wrong in thinking this? This is what I'm trying to do (pic i found on the net below), I try and keep the angle of my right hand the same as long as possible and when I get to waist high I just swing my shoulders. So at waist high my clubface is slightly closed and from wht I can see in your pic, your clubface is open at that point. Is it just he picture angle? Is this pic taking slightly after you got to waist high and started turning? Am i missing something?

[BC MIST]

Ok I've seen that pic before as I like to roam these forums. That to me looks like preseting the wrists. Maybe its just the way I'm seeing it as I'm not a swing guru, am I wrong in thinking this? This is what I'm trying to do (pic i found on the net below), I try and keep the angle of my right hand the same as long as possible and when I get to waist high I just swing my shoulders. So at waist high my clubface is slightly closed and from wht I can see in your pic, your clubface is open at that point. Is it just he picture angle? Is this pic taking slightly after you got to waist high and started turning? Am i missing something?

The picture was taken in 2003 and yes, the club face then, was slightly open, as I had a 10 finger grip and was prone to hooking. Now, however, the face is slightly closed at hip high and I am back to a Vardon grip.

Currently, the wrists are preset even more, that is, the club shaft is past parallel putting them in the position I want them to be at the top of the back swing, and my hands are directly opposite my right hip. Also, I stop dead here, before continuing. (I'll try to post pics, later) As you stated, all I do from the preset position is turn my torso, leaving my wrists in the left hand FLAT and right wrist BENT configuration, established by the preset, and where you want to be at the top.

The "low and slow," extended takeaway, "wide arc" stuff is nonsense and unnecessary. The only important arc is the downswing one, not the back swing one, as long as the lead arm is extended both ways. The more "vertical" you can make the arc of the hands/club head, on the downswing, the bigger the arc and the greater generator of club head speed. The wide arc of the back swing, is actually a small arc. Just think of the circumference of a circle.

Much golf instruction includes an earlier set of the wrists, David Leadbetter for one, The Golfing Machine and all of it's corollaries, and others. Consider a couple of back swing checkpoints. (1) When the hands are opposite the right thigh, the club shaft is parallel to the ground. (2) When the left arm is parallel to the ground, the shaft is vertical. Reversing those two on the downswing gives you a good chance to achieve an inside path to the ball.

Historically, it was David Leadbetter who gave me the idea of a preset swing back in the mid 1980's when he was changing the swings of Nick Price and Nick Faldo, who both had low takeaways, which often resulted in the arms rebounding OUT at the transition. DL had Price perform my preset BEFORE swinging back, apparently hitting thousands of ball this way. Then, when swinging normally, the wrists subconsciously hinge earlier, which is the desired affect. While an actual preset/stop swing looks very unorthodox and created comments, questions and snickers, watching the ball fly straight provides the last laugh.

What I don't like about the pic you posted is the late setting of the wrists AND the right arm moving too far from the right side. Put your glove under your right armpit and don't let it fall out at the transition.

[HoganWoods]

I would swing like Jim Furyk if I thought I could, and if it would make me better. Thanks for the info.

[BC MIST]

Preset pics

[HoganWoods]

Thanks for the pics!

[KJP]

I have the same indoor spikes BC! . The fabulous Mrs. P insists that even the soft spikes are not good for the hardwood.

[shaner85]

BC...the last pic you posted, does it reflect the position on the take away or the downswing?

The second question is the pic of the player in yellow seems to me has a very tight grip judging by the tendons and muscles that look quite tightened up. Is that an accurate guess? If so, I thought a relaxed grip was the good approach...Just curious...

Thanks...

[BC MIST]

BC...the last pic you posted, does it reflect the position on the take away or the downswing?

The second question is the pic of the player in yellow seems to me has a very tight grip judging by the tendons and muscles that look quite tightened up. Is that an accurate guess? If so, I thought a relaxed grip was the good approach...Just curious...

I start my backswing from the position in the pic. I PRESET my hands and move the arms so that my left hand is in front of my right thigh as shown. Then I stop. From there I make my back swing trying to move the hands and the club shaft on a line from the ball up through my right shoulder (Turned shoulder plane)

On the downswing my hands drop back and down so that they and the shaft follow the shaft axis plane, the line drawn at address from the ball up the shaft and beyond. Achieving this means that the leverage angles will extend through impact without the need to manipulate the hands/arms in any way. If I get below the shaft plane a little and if the face is slightly open at impact, the ball will DRAW, that is, start right of the target line and move gently back to the target line, my preferred ball flight.

The pics are lousy. I will try to get some better ones early next week.

Opinions on grip pressure vary depending on others' perception or feeling. IMO, best results are achieved with a firm left hand, (the rod) and a soft, relaxed right hand/arm/shoulder (the claw). I like Moe Norman's statement: "I draw blood with my left; my right's wet spaghetti."