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  1. #1
    I'm a regular Andy4Par is on a distinguished road Andy4Par's Avatar
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    The Sens are a Mess

    I heard an interesting comment from the post game show following the senators game vs. the Oilers. The commentator(not sure which one) said something to the effect that Sens fans must understand that this team is not very good and won't be anytime soon. That our Sens are rebuilding for the future. I don't see any rebuilding here at all. We have been signing players that have their best days well behind them. We have a couple lines of hot/cold stars that under acheive. The third and fourth line are really non factors most nights against most teams. Our defense is not very strong at all....aging as well. Karlsson may be the only bright spot on the back line. Don't even want to discuss the goalie situation.....been there done that!
    I just thought it weird that he would say rebuilding. I am not sure but I don't think we have any high draft picks. This team seems to me is in a state of flux. Neither moving backwards or forwards as a team. I am quite sure we will finish out of the playoffs this year again. This kills me to say because I am a fan of the Sens since their first game so long ago. So what does this team need to be successful again? What are some thoughts? Toronto fans need not reply.....you should be questioning the direction your team is taking as well.
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  2. #2
    Championship Cup sensfan63 is on a distinguished road
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    Like you said, too many aging (former) stars with big contracts are the problem.

    I couldn't have predicted Gonchar would be as bad as he's been so far. I was excited when we signed him.

    Kovalev is gone after this year, so that's ok. Alfie still has a lot of years left on his contract, but he is still playing ok. Spezza is fine. Michalek is fine.

    After that, there isn't much depth in the organization. They need to sign a YOUNG star in the offseason, overpay if necessary. But enough with the signing of 35 year olds.

  3. #3
    Way Beyond Help rezadue is on a distinguished road rezadue's Avatar
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    As a Senstors fan, I can't help but think the management is trying to patch up the team year after year in the hopes of making the playoffs. At this point I would not object to blowing up the team to rebuild, providing we can do a good job with drafting high and well.
    Proud member of the 2009 Ryder Cup winning team

  4. #4
    Hall of Fame mpare is on a distinguished road mpare's Avatar
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    Sens fans have absolutely no idea what a bad team is. If you want an example of one, you need look no further than Toronto. Now that is a team that can bring tears to the eyes of the most ardent Leaf fans.
    Proud member of the 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ottawa Golf Ryder Cup teams.

  5. #5
    Championship Cup sensfan63 is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpare View Post
    Sens fans have absolutely no idea what a bad team is. If you want an example of one, you need look no further than Toronto. Now that is a team that can bring tears to the eyes of the most ardent Leaf fans.
    Maybe not, but it's not the best idea to compare yourself to the worst.

    Seriously, we as Sens fans are used to competing and competing near the top of the league, the last 3 years notwithstanding. It's not at all unusual to feel like the team is "bad."

  6. #6
    Hall of Fame mpare is on a distinguished road mpare's Avatar
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    Don't confuse me with a Leafs fan, which I am not. I root for the Sens and for the Canadiens. Don't ask. It takes too long to explain. At least with the Sens one gets the feeling that management is actually trying to ice a good team.

    Quote Originally Posted by sensfan63 View Post
    Maybe not, but it's not the best idea to compare yourself to the worst.

    Seriously, we as Sens fans are used to competing and competing near the top of the league, the last 3 years notwithstanding. It's not at all unusual to feel like the team is "bad."
    Proud member of the 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ottawa Golf Ryder Cup teams.

  7. #7
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    the NHL, by and large is cyclical. The Sens have had good teams, contending teams for a 6-7 year period based on 5-6 really bad seasons and were able to stockpile a lot of draftpicks that turned into some good players. That window is now gone and they are in essense rebuilding. They have a number of good guys in the minors and some good players on the roster but it is what it is right now. Spotty goaltending (what else is new), spotty defense and hit and miss offence. We were spoiled for a long time in this city and now we have a mediocre team.

    And as Mike says, it could be worse. The Leafs have minimal talent, nothing in the minors, and have not made the playoffs in 6 years. The next 5 years don't look any more promising.
    I got a fever. And the only prescription is more golf equipment.

  8. #8
    Hopelessly Addicted Shivas Irons is on a distinguished road Shivas Irons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy4Par View Post
    This team seems to me is in a state of flux. Neither moving backwards or forwards as a team.
    I think this is accurate.

    We have a number of decent D-man prospects, and will have some cap space next year so there is light at the end of the tunnel.
    If the team isn't going to make the playoffs, I think it's time to jettison some of those forwards with big contracts - Kovalev will be gone anyway, and as much as I hate to say it, Fisher sure would get a lot of attention if he were on the trading block.
    Al Gore didn't invent the internet, but he did invent global warming.

  9. #9
    Sleeps here davevandyk is on a distinguished road davevandyk's Avatar
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    I think the most pressing issues facing the Sens are goaltending and leadership going forward a few years. Alfie is the undisputed leader and has been for YEARS, but there really is not anybody in place to take that leadership once Alfie and Phillips move on.

    As far as goalies, Leclaire is a UFA and Elliot is a RFA at the end of this year. They will have a TON of money this upcoming off-season:

    Kovalev: 5mil
    Leclaire: 3.8mil
    Phillips: 3.5mil
    Ruutu: 1.3mil
    Campoli: 1.4mil
    15million

    Of these above players, even the ones that re-sign will likely receive a pay cut. Even with just 5million of that pot, a really good goalie might be had like a Bryzgalov or Vokoun.

    I don't think its a bad year to have to have some cap room for the summer with the likes of:

    B. Richards, St. Louis, Kaberle, Markov, Chara, etc.

    Might not be a great year, but def room for pretty immediate optomism given our cap situation and young prospects.

  10. #10
    Hall of Fame spackler is on a distinguished road spackler's Avatar
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    All the Sens are doing with the signings of guys like Kovalev and Gonchar is trying to patch the gaps while they do some serious rebuilding. They're staying playoff competitive, but still stockpiling and grooming some pretty good prospects. They can't do an all-out rebuild as they would have a half empty rink every night. As for goalies, Lehner is a stud, they have no need for Bryzgalov or Vokoun. Sign Elliot cheaply and then partner him and Lehner until Lehner's ready to shoulder the full load.

  11. #11
    Hopelessly Addicted Shivas Irons is on a distinguished road Shivas Irons's Avatar
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    I just read that Lee has been waived, and there are rumblings about a deal with Phoenix. Looks like something could happen soon. The name I read was Adrian Aucoin...
    Al Gore didn't invent the internet, but he did invent global warming.

  12. #12
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    They need something for sure, they are in the bottom third in the league in avg goals/game, avg goals against/game, Power play and penalty kill. I think they need a special teams coach because Clouston's ways do not work
    Lefty Lucas
    I am abidextrous, I once golfed right-handed and now I shoot left-handed just as badly!

  13. #13
    Championship Cup leftygolfguy is on a distinguished road
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    Patch the gaps?!?! Haha

    Does anyone else see how its funny that someone with the screen name "spackler" said they are trying to patch the gaps???

    If only there was a cattle farmer on here, he could provide an apt comparison for Ottawa's young talent... get it???

    Ok... just kidding

    But seriously they should hire a new GM... or Alexei Yashin

    Go Sens!!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by spackler View Post
    All the Sens are doing with the signings of guys like Kovalev and Gonchar is trying to patch the gaps while they do some serious rebuilding. They're staying playoff competitive, but still stockpiling and grooming some pretty good prospects. They can't do an all-out rebuild as they would have a half empty rink every night. As for goalies, Lehner is a stud, they have no need for Bryzgalov or Vokoun. Sign Elliot cheaply and then partner him and Lehner until Lehner's ready to shoulder the full load.

  14. #14
    Fairway Junkie sharkshooter is on a distinguished road sharkshooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davevandyk View Post
    Kovalev: 5mil
    Leclaire: 3.8mil
    Phillips: 3.5mil
    Ruutu: 1.3mil
    Campoli: 1.4mil
    15million

    ...
    I see no reason to sign any of these, for any price. Surely some draft picks will play as well.

  15. #15
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    Ruutu is a much under appreciated player, he is well worth the money, he is an excellent penalty killer and has been one of the most solid players on the most solid Sens line all year. He is one of the only players on the team with some spunk and guts. I would not get rid of any player on that line.

    Trade Spezza in the off season if you can in addition to not re-signing any of the above players. That will change the culture for sure
    Lefty Lucas
    I am abidextrous, I once golfed right-handed and now I shoot left-handed just as badly!

  16. #16
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftylucas View Post
    Ruutu is a much under appreciated player, he is well worth the money, he is an excellent penalty killer and has been one of the most solid players on the most solid Sens line all year. He is one of the only players on the team with some spunk and guts. I would not get rid of any player on that line.

    Trade Spezza in the off season if you can in addition to not re-signing any of the above players. That will change the culture for sure
    agree on Ruutu, disagree on Spezza. it would actually not be a bad thing if the sens were sucking wind come february and could trade away some of these guys for draft pics, etc. and retool for next year.
    I got a fever. And the only prescription is more golf equipment.

  17. #17
    Known entity Mattchew is on a distinguished road Mattchew's Avatar
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    The Sens need to make changes for sure...and this has been the case for a couple years now. Not great in there own end and can't seem to get any scoring from guys that should be putting the puck in the net. Allot of people like to harp on Spezza but he is one of the bright spots in this team. But everyone in Ottawa loves Fisher..why? The last year Ottawa was competative was the run to the the finals. That year the whole team was Spezza, Heately and Alfie, when they were shut down the team lost. Spezza is not going to score 50 goals a year, but as proven with Heatley he can be a player with 90-100 PTS. Regin, Foligno, Michalek, Kovalev, Fisher and the list goes on are half the player Spezza is. Jason has become a much better player year after year but less can be said about the majority of this team. There are allot of underachievers on the Sens but Jason is not one of them. If it takes getting rid of a Fisher, Phillips, Regin or Foligno for a guy who can put the puck in the net then do so but Ottawa will be a worse team without Spezza.
    "If you ever need anything please don't hesitate to ask someone else first." Kirk Cobain

  18. #18
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    Spezza will never change his style, he is high risk. He plays in one end of the rink only. Check him out, he turns the puck over consistently and is always last back to the defensive zone. I do not see him huslting back like ALfie and Regin. He is a high paid slacker who relies on his offensive prowess to get away for his lack of defensive play. Its a moot point because he has been shopped around a lot for the last year and no one wants him, he is overpaid for what he brings.
    Lefty Lucas
    I am abidextrous, I once golfed right-handed and now I shoot left-handed just as badly!

  19. #19
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    I also agree that other players are overated, Fisher is a -12 this year, but let's get serious, Spezza is seriously underachieving this year, he has 14 points, Karllson has 12. Projections would be Spezza with 50 points and Karllson at 39 points. That would be great for Karllson and a career low for Spezza.
    Lefty Lucas
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  20. #20
    Known entity Mattchew is on a distinguished road Mattchew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftylucas View Post
    Spezza will never change his style, he is high risk. He plays in one end of the rink only. Check him out, he turns the puck over consistently and is always last back to the defensive zone. I do not see him huslting back like ALfie and Regin. He is a high paid slacker who relies on his offensive prowess to get away for his lack of defensive play. Its a moot point because he has been shopped around a lot for the last year and no one wants him, he is overpaid for what he brings.
    A few years ago I might agree on this but not now. He makes some high risk plays but who in this league with the scoring talent that Jason has Doesn't! Jason want even in the top 30 in the league in givaways/turnovers last year or the year before. And didn't even lead the Sens in that department.
    "If you ever need anything please don't hesitate to ask someone else first." Kirk Cobain

  21. #21
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    I don't disagree entirely but his production has declined dratically the last 3 years and if you really want to change the culture of the team you need guys that will go into the corners and fight for the puck, there is more value out there than Spezza for the money. The entire team turns the puck over now, it is more apparent when Spezza does it because he plays against the #1 line against every team. The rest of the NHL have figured out the Ottawa's top line is not good defensively and they consistently put out their top line against them and more often than not win that match up. It is costing us games.
    Lefty Lucas
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  22. #22
    Known entity Mattchew is on a distinguished road Mattchew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftylucas View Post
    Spezza will never change his style, he is high risk. He plays in one end of the rink only. Check him out, he turns the puck over consistently and is always last back to the defensive zone. I do not see him huslting back like ALfie and Regin. He is a high paid slacker who relies on his offensive prowess to get away for his lack of defensive play. Its a moot point because he has been shopped around a lot for the last year and no one wants him, he is overpaid for what he brings.
    I bet the majority of the league would love to have Spezza on there team....I have heard some rumblings from when teams did call about jason in the summer Murray was asking for the same kind of deal with Kessel. 2 first rounders and a second or a top prospect. not sure many want to do that after what happened in Toronto.
    "If you ever need anything please don't hesitate to ask someone else first." Kirk Cobain

  23. #23
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Earlier the goal tending was brought up. I still think that Leclaire is the better of the two goalies. Sure his stats aren't showing it, however, he has also played in some of the big stinker games that weren't his fault. Two games in a row (one against LA) the Sens lost and Leclaire was one of the three stars! Elliot is far too hot and cold. He can play well, or he can play bad. I will still take a healthy (and that is the caveat here) Leclaire over Elliot.
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  24. #24
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    If Spezza finished his checks he would be pretty good, he is tied for 207th out of 235 forwards in the East, (Kovalev too)5 hits all season, even the fourth liner little Shannon has 12 hits with way less ice time. That is sad, Spezza is a big chicken
    Lefty Lucas
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  25. #25
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftylucas View Post
    If Spezza finished his checks he would be pretty good, he is tied for 207th out of 235 forwards in the East, (Kovalev too)5 hits all season, even the fourth liner little Shannon has 12 hits with way less ice time. That is sad, Spezza is a big chicken
    Luc, Spezza doesn't get paid to finish checks. He gets paid to set up and score goals. How many checks did Gretzky ever finish?
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  26. #26
    I'm a regular Andy4Par is on a distinguished road Andy4Par's Avatar
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    Can't believe Guerin retired. Murray could have signed him for two more years at 2 million a year.
    "Get your smile on!"

  27. #27
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    Spezza vs Gretzky, is not a good comparison, Spezza is weak on the puck. I am only saying if he at least tried to finish checks, he would be better. He just needs to engage the opposition and run into them. Now every player knows to move the puck away from Spezza's famous fly by poke check and voilà, take their time. I for one am not happy with any Senator that just plays on side of the rink. When you get to the playoffs you need to be good on both sides and cannot just turn it on.
    Last edited by leftylucas; 12-07-2010 at 08:22 AM.
    Lefty Lucas
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  28. #28
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftylucas View Post
    Spezza vs Gretzky, is not a good comparison, Spezza is weak on the puck. I am only saying if he at least tried to finish checks, he would be better. He just needs to engage the opposition and run into them. Now every player knows to move the puck away from Spezza's famous fly by poke check and voilà, take their time. I for one am not happy with any Senator that just plays on side of the rink. When you get to the playoffs you need to be good on both sides and cannot just turn it on.
    Spezza has been a lot better defensively this year and has spent time on the PK. He'll never be Guy Carbonneau but doesn't have to. He gets paid to put the puck in the net and set up goals. He isn't and never will be the type to run into other players.
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  29. #29
    Singles Match Play Champ 2009 Team Match Play Champ 2013, 2014 leftylucas is on a distinguished road leftylucas's Avatar
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    Yes, he is being paid to be an offensive player and he is not doing that either. He is only good, not great. His production is going the opposite of what it is supposed to be at this stage of his career. I do not disagree at all with what you are saying, I am saying IF he were to finish checks he would be a complete player and there is absolutely no reason he cannot do that and still be the good offensive player that he is. His defensive play has improved for sure, going from zero effort. I just cannot stand seeing Regin and Alfie with their heads down racing up the ice after a turnover and Spezza looking like Shaquille. It makes him look bad and lazy, right now he cannot afford to do that. He is the 6th highest paid centre in the league, he has not played like it in the last 2 years.
    Lefty Lucas
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  30. #30
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    and the missing piece to that equation for decreased production? Dany Heatley. As much as I dislike the guy, he is a pure goal scorer and they had chemistry together like no other.
    I got a fever. And the only prescription is more golf equipment.

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