new basement project help

[imanidiot]

Ok guys... this is the best place on the net by far to talk about simulators. And just so you know I have been reading since way back to the early days of the first pages of the dancing dog thread that went 9472 pages (or close) and causing this forum section. I am newly posting but no where near new to the forum.

I have watched and read and now I am ready to act. I have a basement area that I am now dedicating to a golf sim. The area itself is 15ft wide x 20 feet long x 7'6" high...obviously too small for golf so I have contracted an engineer to draw plans to lower the basement floor in this area to give me +/- 10' in height. here is a copy of the plans:

basement plans1.pdf

I can give you a more detailed plan with side views and such but that should be good enough to give you the idea. so now I have an area that will be 10' wide x 15' long and roughly 10' high. Not the largest of areas but should be good enough to create my own sim.

Other info that may be helpful to you guys helping me out is that I have a budget of roughly $20,000 or so. I also have a goofy neighbor who hits from the wrong side of the ball so that has to be considered also. (plus Im still not sure which side my 4 year old will be swinging from either so lefties need consideration also).

We are both DIY kinda guys (I am including my neighbor in this as he will help put it all together, since he owes me for me helping finish his basement) plus with a sim next door he will have a vested interest in the project. Besides I need a way to keep my money stream going when the warm months end and he stops losing to me on the real course and all we have left to gamble on is darts and pool.


Here is what we have for options so far without including any large name outfit like full swing, about golf, etc. I am not against these at all but i am against the $40,000 price tags.



basement options.jpg


I think I am leaning towards the ... well honestly I wont say what I am leaning towards as i would like some input...instead I will say what I am looking for. I want to play golf inside for the winter months obviously but i want it to be accurate as far as golf shots. I don't want to have a preset launch angle for what club I have. I am a good golfer (2-4 handicap) and want my shots to accurately reflect how I hit them as opposed to a projected path based on the loft of the club. I also like the idea of not having to hit off of the exact same spot every single time ( I can get over this fact if I can get what I want for a bunch less $$$$). I am a little worried about how putting will be done with the all camera system but think we could figure something out. Even if its building a small putting green in the basement and just entering the number of putts, to maybe even incorporating something like the putting game into it...
http://www.theputtinggame.com/

My last thing I would like it to integrate some sort of teaching video software. But this is probably a separate deal all together that I can do completely outside of the sim for a bunch less $$$ again...


I respect many peoples opinions here and really think you guys know what you are talking about. I welcome any and all feedback and will say thanks in advance for any responses I get...


B (my neighbor) feel free to add anything I missed... I give full credit to him for the spreadsheet on the different options and all his research into what will and what wont work for me...

[jackyl]

I put together that spreadsheet, but I did forget to mention that radar based units require some minimum tracking distance, which might not be doable with 15' of depth, so those may be ruled out immediately.

[psace]

You really need to talk to Cory at Par2pro. However,from what you have posted, it sounds like the sim from the Foresight people would be ideal (not having to hit off a pad). It would run you about $8000.00. The next best option accuracy wise would be the pro 7 that RDH currently uses but then you would be hitting off a pad.

[psace]

I forgot about the Newport simulator which runs around $20,000 and has the e6 graphic software which is about the best out there. It may not fit your basement dimensions, however.

[imanidiot]

Well the foresight product doesnt appear at my first glance to be any different than the accusport vector pro or for that matter any other launch monitor zelocity/flightscope/etc. other than the simulation software itself which we could get straight from GSA and still be around half the cost of the foresight product. Please correct me if I am wrong as i often am...

Thanks for the heads up on the Newport I hadn't seen that one before. The Newport may work but one question with that is does it measure side spin or just calculate (guess)? With the sonic triangulation positioning it sounds like to me that the spin is just guessed at and not measured with ball path just being measured. And other than the E6 software which is nice, I think I can do it for a large enough savings dollar wise to DIY it.

And lastly I would love to set up a conversation with Corey and get his input. But on the other hand I don't like having people who's profession it is give out free advice and not get any return. Now if i DIY it then i will be calling corey for the screens and mats and advice there as he will have the oportunity to be able to sell me something. I wouldn't be happy using Corey for all his insight and expertise and then not buy anything from him and on that same note I would then feel obligated to do so and I don't want that either. Your guys advice, psace, rdh, bubba, others, you guys don't do it for a living so I feel no shame in asking for your help... kinda like asking a doctor husband of my wife's friend to look at my hurt elbow at a dinner party.

[bubba22]

Well you have come to the right place. It sounds like you want a sim that measures spin and really giving you that true realism. You are on the right track with the GSA camera sims. The p3pro, st1, pro7 are not for you. All the sims have good points and not so good points. I would recommend that you get something that has club and ball measurements including spin. The GC2 Foresight sim is a better launch moniter/sim than the Vector. Nothing against the vector but the gc2 is an excellent launch monitor and also has simulation (GSA) capabilities. It is not as convenient for left and right hand players. At the present time there are no club data but they willwoon havethat capability. Martin is developing the LX launch monitor sim that will challange the GC2 as well.

The other camera based system you should look at is the Sportscoach system. Good price and good sim.
You do have lots of choices for sure. What do you want to get out of the sim? What things are you specifically looking for? talking to Cory is a great idea.

[jackyl]

Yeah. measuring spin and ball flight is infinitely preferable to calculations from our standpoint. this is as much about improving as it is about indoor golf and having real launch angles, azimuth, speed and spin measurements as opposed to calculated based on club head path seems critical to that. Having said that, capturing club head path, face angle, etc is also important to understand why the ball did what it did... So, the trick is trying to get a sim that basically does everything while still hitting his budget.

that's why we are focused on DIY - seems like that's the only way to handle it.

[imanidiot]

OK what do I want out of it... it has been a long thought process here...what I really and truly want out of it is an accurate(most important) and playable tool that will let my entire family (me - 2-4 handicap, wife - just hooked on golf this year, and 4 year old - only putted), both play/practice golf inside in the winter/rain. I want something that will be able to be used on a Friday night drinking and playing golf with buddies and also being able to practice and learn on any given day where I can really sit down and see what the club is doing every time through the impact zone and how the ball is really traveling from each hit. My real concern is the large professional indoor golf sims that I have played at have all been not accurate in my mind. In fact not even close. Toed and heeled shots were not even close to accurate along with pull hooks and such. I am not so concerned about putting. And I am not so concerned about the "look" of the projected image as I am the accurate reading of the ball and a true ball flight extended out... not just a guess.

The other thing that I guess I need is for it to be able to measure from both a right and left handed swing for my silly neighbor...

Thanks for the heads up on the sport coach sim. Again another I hadn't seen. At first glance late on a Friday night the Sport coach sim looks really appealing and I think within budget if my conversions are accurate...the bronze one being around $16-17,000. Although I am not sure it will fit into the area I have so more research needed.

[jackyl]

That does look nice. I didn't do the currency conversion or really compare the models though. Also how much are the course packs?

[imanidiot]

well the bronze one didnt have the 3D camera system...just the integrated cameras...too late on Friday night for me to go any further. But it looks like either the classic or silver and 13,000 pounds is about 21,000 US right now...

[bubba22]

I think you are on the right track with a camera based system. I would probably stay away from a radar based sytem indoors as it's accuracy becomes challanged in the very short ball flight. Radar is better over a longer area of ball flight like the driving range not in your basement. The Sportscoach system is quite nice. Cory at Par2pro does sell them so it would be worth your while to call him as he may be able to get it cheaper than you see on their website. I agree with you about the accuracy of some sims. It sounds like you want something that will give both club and ball data including spin. Options include:
About Golf
Foresight GC2
GGS GSA golf
High Definition Golf
SportsCoach

The GGS systems are very nice and modular so you can mix and match somewhat. Have you tried calling and talking to Martin? He is a very knowlegable guy and easy to approach. I would encourage you to talk with both Cory and Martin to help in the decision process.

[rdh]

I'm just reading this thread for the first time... I was flattered to see the "RDH Special" simulator option on your spreadsheet!

With the basement excavated you have the makings of one nice setup - very exciting. I don't know that I have much to add here as you already have the options laid out and generally know the pros/cons. I really find the accuracy of my Pro 7 to be excellent, but spin is calculated and I've done my own interface tweaking to get it to where I'm happy with it. And the launch angle limit is 40 degrees (estimated beyond that).

I think a key decision is whether you want club data or not. If so, the Pro 7 might be your best option. The fact that you'll be playing regularly with your left-handed neighbour also makes something like the GC2 a poor choice (has to be moved for each handed golfer).

When I bought, Cory suggested I consider a camera system from sportscoach as it wasn't a lot more than the Pro 7. It was in the $10K range, but I think the GPS software was extra. I didn't look at it closely for three reasons:

1. I wasn't too impressed with GPS Golf (from what I saw) and wanted GSA Golf
2. The price wasn't a lot more than I spent, but it was enough more that it was out of my budget
3. I didn't have a good setup to mount cameras in permanent positions

With your setup #3 goes away, so they may be a very good option to look into further.

[bubba22]

I personally think the pro7 is a great sim and truly the gold standard. I suspect the calculation of spin by the unit is very accurate and certainly would be enough for me. If you are adament that you want direct spin measurement then I suppose you have to look at the camera or radar based units. it would be nice if the Golftek folks allowed for either the GPS or GSA software integration. The last I spoke with them they were only offering the GPS sotftware.

[imanidiot]

RDH - you should be excited to see the RDH special as it is the basis for alot of what we have talked about. And I hope that the basement setup is as nice as you can get...I will be doing the work to make it so... and I seriously considered the garage setup that you have already but decided something more permanent would be better.

I think I do want the club data as I have been constantly been called out as a guy who has an outside-in swing with a closed clubface at impact that just has good hand eye co-ordination... I don't doubt this but have only seen my swing a few times on the pro's software...

I think I have a good area for a camera setup but I think that I also dont have a good setup for a radar based as I don't have a long ball flight prior to hitting the screen/mat. And I guess that it isn't out of my budget but I am not opposed to saving a significant amount of money if it doesn't benefit me that much.

I guess I am like anyone and looking for the most bang for my buck!

[bubba22]

I personally think the club data is critical especially for swing analysis. Don't get me wrong, having the ball data is also important and would be welcomed. The radar based systems are really challanged with indoor play do to the limited arera for ball flight. That is why the About golf folks switched from radar based to camera based.