Chosing between the DD and P3Pro

[Bruce Balog]

Greetings from Cleveland, Ohio! I have spent the past few weeks reading every page of the forum as I try to decide which golf simulator is best for me. I will say, without a doubt, this is the best resource on the internet for golf simulators. Thanks to everyone for their feedback and opinions.

I have narrowed my final choice down to the DD and P3Pro. Here are the questions I still have specifically for anyone who has used the P3Pro.

1) I really want to play the new courses on the P3Pro, but I am wondering if it is worth spending the extra cash if there is no longer going to be a launch angle feature integrated with the courses. It seems like the only advantage to the P3Pro is better accuracy with the driver. An extra $1,500 is a lot of money for a marginal benefit. Am I missing something?

2) I read a lot about people who needed to make distance adjustments on the DD to match their own "real life" distances. Is this necessary on the P3Pro, or is the software able to properly calculate distance based on the club factors?

3) How are the graphics on the 37 new courses on the P3Pro? How do they compare to the DD?

[cgreene]

Hello... have been reading through the posts and would like to confirm the best set-up for a simulator. I am thinking about purchasing the Optishot. If I set it up in my garage, below is a list of items I need to consider. Having I missed anything or need to reconsider anything ?

1. Check DD site to ensure my computer meets thier minimum requirements.
2. I see ebay has a project for about $250 with 2000 lumins
3. Need a screen, any recommendations
4. I think I would just put a golf net in front of the screen
5. Need to ensure the lighting in my garage is not too bright

Anything else ?

Thanks

[bubba22]

Welcome Bruce Balog. The DD and the P3pro are both good options for entry level sims. I have both. There will be other sims developed in the near future to compete with them. The Golftek st1 is another that has the advantage of a ball sensor but no launch.

TheP3pro is defenitely more accurate than the DD. Certainly that improved accuracy is with the driver but also with the irons. The launch angle feature takes it that much further. If they integrate that with the new courses it would be perfect. Despite not having the launch feature with the new courses it still is more accurate. When you look at the make up of the sensor pad and the array of sensors for each (32 for dd in 2 simple rows vs 65 for p3pro with several rows), it is obvious that the p3pro is an upgraded version. RDH's Pro7 has even more sensors and a ball/launch measurement so it is even a much better unit but more expensive. The benefit for me of the p3pro over the dd is better accuracy(especially with the driver), more feedback information (angle of attack, club data before impact at impact and after impact, estimated ball speed, better estimation of ball contact on club), add ons like launch integration. Whether this is import for you at the higher price depends on your finances. I would say if you can afford the p3pro then go for it. If you can't then get the dd and enjoy.

For me I have to tweak my dd a little bit to get the distances and shot pattern consistent for the setup. Some tweak more than others. There is no tweaking needed with the p3pro. You can boost the distance 10% but I didn't have to do that as I found my distance (as well as friends that play) to work without any modification.

The graphics are both comparable. I think that the p3pro graphics are more appealable to my eye but that is marginal compared to the dd. The options for game play, camera angles, statistics etc are much better with the p3pro. For example the p3pro courses will give each players stats overall ( number of rounds and holes played, average driver distance, greens in regulation, scoring average on par 3,4,5- puts per hole, number of birdies eagles etc) just like the pros. You can reset that to see your improvement.

Overall both systems are good however without a doubt the p3pro is an upgrade from the dd. Which one you buy depends on what you want from the system and your finances.

[bubba22]

Cgreene you are on the right track. Cory from Par2pro is a good resource and sells impact screens. Have fun with your setup.

[Bruce Balog]

Thanks Bubba. Since you have both sims, your feedback is exactly what I was looking for. I think the fact that you don't have to adjust your settings is a huge plus for me. I would love to play against some of my friends on the sim, and manually entering club setting adjustments could cause a few fights between us

I also really like being able to use a driver all the time with accurate settings. I am leaning toward the P3Pro right now. Too bad they don't have a launch angle available with the courses. If they did, it would be a no brainer decision for me. I don't think I would get the launch angle feature just for the driving range. Although it would probably help my swing, it is a lot of extra money. I am a 12 handicap, and would love to play the courses the pros play everyday at home and see (about) what I would shoot on them.

How about putting? I know it can never be perfect on a sim, but how does it compare to the DD? On the P3Pro's website, it advertises a new putting software (The Putting Shark). Is this different from what they have had before, and is it included with the P3Pro, or is it an add on?

Weather is starting to get cold here, and it might soon be time to make the purchase.

[bubba22]

The settings is not that big of a deal. Once done for your distance etc will generally work with the buddies clubs. The driver and launch add ons were huge issues for me. I personally want to practice my driver and the dd didn't cut it. Others on the forum have been happy with their drivers. The launch add on works flaweless with their driving range and 2 original courses. The graphics for the courses are not as good but the launch does work well with them. I use their driving range a lot with the launch and I am totally satisfied. I just hope they will integrate it with the new GSA courses. If they don't, I probably will look at one of the sims that will do that (New GGS adx sim, ProTee sim). It is too bad I have invested the money in the p3pro already but it can always be sold on ebay. With more people wanting the launch (which I can't understand why you wouldn't want it) the p3pro will have to integrate the launch feature with the GSA courses.

The sims I find are very good for ball striking and swing analysis. My ball striking has never been better. I find they are good with the shortgame but not perfect. Putting is good to look at the stroke but difficult to judge distance, break etc. I am more of a feel player fir my short game so I can tell you that the sims have not improved my short game. Bunker play is obviously impossible to really simulate even with the higher end sims. I chip and play on the sims for fun but use the woods and irons for fun and ball striking practice. The putting shark from what I know is a new product that is essentially the p3pro but geared towards putting analysis. If you have the p3pro yu don't need the Puttingshark.

Good luck and have fun with it.

[Bruce Balog]

Great points Bubba. They are appreciated.

I am maybe a unique customer who is looking to play the courses for entertainment value, but I am very picky about accuracy. I don't think I would use the driving range very much, so I would not add on the launch angle unless it became available on the GSA courses. I need something that mirrors actual golf from tee to green as close as possible-- realizing nothing will be perfect. My budget is about $3,000, which includes projector, impact screen, stance mat, and actual unit (and courses). I believe I can get the P3Pro and corresponding setup for this price. Let me know if this seems unreasonable. Launch angle would be great, but unfortunately not an option unless I can double my budget, which is not an option right now.

I am going to buy an impact screen and projector first, and then make the final decision on which unit I will buy (DD or P3Pro). Now it's back to remembering what everyone said about screens and projectors on the 91 pages of the forum!

[bubba22]

Does the 3 grand include a computer? At that budget and if you are looking for better accuracy and optional upgrading later, then get the p3pro. You can save a little money on the computer (if you need one), mat (you can make your own), impact screen (hell some people just use a big white sheet and net although I would recommend getting from Cory) and projector (used 720p from ebay are reasonable priced). All that can be had for under 3 grand for sure. You will be happy with the p3pro and the new courses. Getting setup with the dd is not a bad idea and at only 399 you can always sell or send it back if not happy. I did that but kept my dd more for comparison, but much prefer to play the p3pro. Both units have their strong and weak points.

[bubba22]

The other unit tor consider is the st1 which has the advantage of having a ball sensor for ball speed and direction but not launch. The fact that they are measuring the ball direction and speed will make that unit more accurate than the dd/p3pro. It is slightly more expensive than the p3pro and uses GPS software which I think is quite good. If they had included launch with that unit I would have bought it. My understanding is that they are not going to develop a launch add on for the st1. The dd/p3pro work by measuring the club (face angle, path, speed and estimates where ball is hit on clubface and in the p3pro angle of attack and vertical as well as horizontal position of ball contact) and translate that potential towards what the computer thinks the ball is doing. Extreme club positions and ball contact (shanks, topping, hitting toe) usually will not register well and not show a accurate result. That happens with both dd/p3pro. They are certainly not perfect. In a perfect world a ball sensor would be good to improve the accuracy. As far as I know the st1 is the next priced sim to have a ball sensor. I just wanted to clearify that as there are some people who want the ultimate in accuracy which you won't get with the dd or the p3pro.

[Bruce Balog]

I already have a computer, so that is not an issue. Budget wise, I am just guessing with the following estimates:

P3Pro with courses: $1,700
Stance mat: $300
Grass Top: $100
Impact Screen: $400
Projector: $500
Total: $3,000

I guess I have never really considered the ST-1. Maybe I should look into it a little more. I remember reading Cory's review, and I think he stated it as being on par or maybe even slightly below as the P3Pro as far as total value goes. Is the ST-1 definitely more accurate than the P3Pro? I know it calculates ball data, but is the club data as accurate as the P3Pro? Too bad neither have launch angle. I emailed P3Pro and asked them about launch angle and they were insistent that the launch angle does not work for the P3Pro courses and that it is a club fitting tool only. I responded by saying that I disagree, and asked why they think the P3Pro is better than the Optishot, and never received a response. Makes me wonder a little since this was about a week ago. Maybe if everyone continues to let these companies know the importance of launch angle, someone will produce an add-on for the courses.

[rdh]

I agree with you Bruce that the launch angle is not just a club fitting tool. The launch angle was a BIG reason I went with the Pro 7 when I moved up from the DD, and I never regretted that. I was a lot like you in that I was far more interested in the best simulated golf experience (and not necessarily game analysis/improvement) and I can tell you that the launch angle makes a BIG difference for that. With it, if you catch the ball really thin from 100 yards out, you see it shoot low and skim across the green. Without launch angle, it's a nice lofted shot that lands softly. It's a BIG difference. Maybe if you're a 2-handicap player who catches the ball solidly 95% of the time, it wouldn't mean a lot (most shots leave the club at the expected angle) but for me it does. Plus, when you're in the simulator and you have a tree in front of you and want to play a punch shot under the branches, you can only do it with launch angle detection.

I do hope P3Pro gets enough of you requesting the webcam launch integration to the GSA software to make it happen.

One interesting thing that happened to me and you may be surprised with as well, is that after I got my system, I ended up spending FAR more time on the range in the software working on my game than I did playing rounds. I thought I'd just stick to playing and having fun, but once I had the tools to get great feedback on my swing, I became more interested in really WORKING on my swing to improve it. Hitting the course became more something to do if I had a friend over, or to gage my progress from time to time. I still love playing a round (it's fun as heck!) but I actually enjoyed working on my game on the range and seeing the results more. You simply get more detailed feedback with these devices than you do on the "real" range. I never spent much time on ranges in the real world (although I should have) due to boredom, but on the device it has been a much different experience for me.

[bubba22]

Well put rdh. Everybody know my view of knowing the launch angle angle. For me it is absolutely critical. The reason I got the p3pro was the fact that it was the next sim that had a LA option. I liked the fact that they did have integration with the Zelocity. I still hit a lot on the driving range with the unit and love the launch option. I went with the p3pro ans webcam LA over the st1 because I felt that knowing the launch angle with the p3pro was better than knowing the ball speed-direction of the st1. At least the direction and speed are estimated with the p3pro based on club data whereas without launch the computer asigns how high the shot is hit based on the club selected not how you hit the ball. Some may find this ok but obviously the ball flight is not accurate without the launch. Which is more accurate the p3pro or the st1? Probably best to talk with Cory. I do think if the st1 had launch it would be awesome. I would like to get more feedback from st1 users. Balc if you are still around, how is it going?

[rdh]

Ah yes...the myserious balc. Maybe with golf season winding down he'll pop back in at some point.

[bubba22]

Probably right rdh. As we know there are 2 golf seasons --> SUMMER and SIMULATOR .

[big hitter]

Thanks, HoganWoods and Par2Pro. I will definately look at getting a desktop instead of a laptop. That makes a lot of sense regarding upgrading. HoganWoods, I have 15 foot ceilings in my living room. That is why I have no problem swinging in the living room. Par2Pro, good idea with the flowers Thanks, guys.

I just got done building my platform (4ft x 5ft) this past weekend. The wood cost me $50 at Lowes. Next step is to order my mat. Can't wait until I am up and running

[psace]

Enjoy Bighitter. I sure am! Be sure to tweak everything well to get the most out of it. If you read the posts here you will find everything you need. The newer courses are looking better than the original ones, I am finding.

[big hitter]

Anyone know if I will have a problem putting my DD software onto another computer? I installed it onto my current computer and now that I know it won't work, I am going to have to install it onto another computer. Can I use my same product key on another computer?

[psace]

Yes, I have installed the DD software on a different computer. I don't know about the premium courses, however.

[bubba22]

Not an issue. The courses including the premium courses are linked to your product key number. I have reinstalled in an upgraded computer with no issues.

[big hitter]

Thanks, guys. That's good to know.