GC2 - Game Changer - Foresightsports - Feedback

[js1010]

Bubba, how are you getting 15K - are you talking price for all the courses or are you talking CDN dollars?
I paid 6500 US for Unit , the Learning center and one course - I now have 5 courses - (was upgraded because I waited for the software to be ready after I bought the unit).

~5.5K for Unit and now 3K for Club Add-on (which is more than I hoped) - I haven't inquired about pricing for courses recently - how much did they tell you ?

[db-webser]

3k was the price they tell me - i think for a add-on the price must be lower than 3k.

I think 9k for GC2, 10 courses incl. fitting and the add-on will be a good price.

[js1010]

This is a good topic on the importance of accurate spin numbers and one that I thought about a lot before buying the GC2. Foresight claims accuracy of +/-50 RPM on side spin and back spin number - which I believe is as good as any publicly sold device out, currently.

They have told me that there is nothing more accurate in measuring the ball launch data and is as good as it gets for accuracy in an indoor unit. Outdoors, I believe Trackman is the standard because it tracks the ball most of the way so the distances it provides would be more accurate than a calculation of distance.

As far as the Pro 7 it is a great all around system, no doubt – what I wonder and would love to have more information on is the effect of spin rates on the actual ball flight – In my mind having to select a club means something, and the spin numbers generated from Club Head at impact is not accurate enough to depict flight on its own so you need to tell it what loft you are using.

The overall question is what is this difference in the resulting flight and is it worth the price of a system like the GC2. For most, I am sure the ball flight from the Pro 7 will be more than acceptable. I wish I could have tried both before buying to see–The other big issue for me with the Pro 7 was building the platform which I just didn’t want to do.

On another note, I read Martin’s technical news updates once in a while and note how many bugs are being fixed because there seems to be so many different pieces to some of the systems that have to work together - devices reading different things with relays and such - just seems like a lot can go wrong – one self contained unit is a better way, in my opinion.

I like that the GC2 is self contained and have not had issues with it reading a shot. You wait for the unit to give you a green light which means it has locked on to the ball and hit. You get some play where you can place the ball – probably 6-8 inch square or so.

[rdh]

The Pro 7 is a great product, but you're right - it is just estimating spin using the club selection. I drool thinking about a system where you don't need to select your club and can just hit, and the accuracy sounds amazing. I find the accuracy on the pro 7 outstanding...but again, how can I really judge it? If I hit a shot on the Pro 7 that has the right general shape and goes 150 yards and backs up a bit on the green, I have no way to know if the ball REALLY would have gone 5 yards further and a bit more to the side with a bit more or less spin. Then again, I'm not really concerned if it's off slightly. When I play on it, I feel like it's consistent with how I usually play, so I'm happy with that. But, we all want the most accurate experience we can get, don't we?

So with the GC2, if you want to have fairway / sand / rough panels, it sounds like you'd have to move the unit to hit from them if they're more than 6-8 inches apart...is that correct?

The only thing with the Pro 7 that I wish was better (and is an area for improvement for Golftek) is the 40 degree launch angle limit. I have coded my interface to be able to simulate higher launches, but at that point it's guessing based on club data. I assume the GC2 can go up to 60 degrees js1010?

[js1010]

GC2 Launch Angle can read up to 70 degrees per their specs.

And yes, if you had different surfaces - you would have to move the unit.

This is all great info for those that are buying - you really need to know once important to you when picking a unit.

For me, a practice tool is the biggest thing and actually haven't been playing much Sim Golf on it- so the surfaces don't really interest me that much as its not real anyway. I like to go out to the various courses and use the drop the ball feature to hit to famous greens and hit the tee shots - was doing 18th at pebble the other day. I also think the short game chips are difficult in a sim. Tough to gage the distances and for me I get frustrated because my chipping is good outdoors.

Seeing I don't have club head data - I do have two video cameras (front and down line) that replay my swing a few times after impact. I have a seperate monitor for this display and the Simulation projected on my impact screen.

For me this setup is awesome - I can swing see the simulated flight on the screen and then look over to my monitor and watch the replay of last swing from two angles. I have found myself working at home vs. going to the range because I can get some much more feedback in my home sim.

Once I get the club head data - I may not leave... my woman already thinks I am nuts.. and probably so...

[bubba22]

The price of the unit has gone up to 6500 us. The software costs 1900 with 1 courses. Courses are 1000 for 10 courses. Add on for 3000. Depending on how many courses you buy you are up to close to 15 grand.

[rdh]

Come on js1010...WE'RE ALL NUTS!

Your setup sounds pretty amazing. Glad you're enjoying it and getting your money's worth out of it!

[rdh]

Foresight is making some pretty big money on the software and courses, assuming their cost is similar to everyone else selling the Red Chain software in the $1500-$2000 range including all courses.

[rdh]

Back on the topic of having to select clubs...

I made a suggestion to Red Chain for a software enhancement that probably won't come out in the current version, but may be something to build in to their next gen. product. If GSA Golf's user setup screen had a place to define typical ranges for each club, plus a default club to select for chipping (I have to switch from PW to SW a lot), the software could suggest the right club automatically most of the time. I suggested that they take the distance from the pin, then factor it for certain variables. For example, add 5% to the distance for a lie in the rough or sand, add a percentage factor if the hole is uphill or downhill, and add a percentage factor for the wind with/against you. Then, take the resulting adjusted distance, and look up and automatically select the right club for the player.

It wouldn't work 100% of the time, but I expect it would be fine 80% of the time which would mean far less club selections.

I was going to enhance my own interface to build this in, but I had one problem with my interface when trying to read the distance out of GSA Golf and wasn't able to get around that without spending a lot of time...which I don't have right now.

[js1010]

My setup is good - still a little raw as I am in my garage – always a work in progress

My biggest issue right now is lighting - I need / want a lot of lot over me hitting so the video from cameras comes out clear - (less light you lose the ability to see the shaft through impact) but i don't want the light going on the sim screen as you lose contrast fast.


That’s a good idea about club selection and sounds vey do-able, RDH . I have also sent numerous emails to Foresight about improving the software game play. These are really general GSA software enhancement I believe and not sure how they work it out with them.

Teeing off - I a lot of times I have to go to the computer to see distances to bunkers and other hazards – I would like them to show me distances to bunkers and other things by default on the mini map so I don’t have to go to the computer to check all the time. Some holes are better than other on this.

Also, show me distances to the front , back, center of green on approach shots. I have a sky caddie that I use in real golf – why not show this kind of info. THis data has to be there already – just display it so the game play experience improves.

[rdh]

Those are great suggestions js1010. I think I'll start compiling a list of suggested improvements here that I can pass over to GSA for their next-generation product. They're in an enviable position having the widest-used software in the simulator industry, and with the way pricing on the software works, they should invest some time for their next-gen product to make sure they capitalize on their position. There's a lot of money to be made for them if they do it right.

[bubba22]

Good points. Fully agree.

[db-webser]

OK - let us start up a list with additional features...

1.) the water in blue color
2.) distance markers at the course - in germany we have yellow sticke beside the fairway with 3 rings (150 m), 2 rings (100m), 1 ring (50 m) to the center of the green
3.) a great hot key list

[bubba22]

Very good discussion on the need for direct measurement of spin on the home sims. It certainly seems obviousthat knowing the spin would improve the accuracy. i would love it. About golf sims look at not just backspin and side spin but also rifle spin. There is no way to tell how inaccurate a system is unless there was some independant testing done that would compare the different sims. I think the club add on for the gc2 will make it a great hybrid machine that exists both as a launch monitor and great simulator giving both ball and club data. Very, very impressed. js1010 did you get a chance to experiment with any of the limited flight balls?

[js1010]

Just had a nice little session for you, bubba.

I had some Brush T and Almost Balls that I tried against a Pro V .

Limited Flight balls were good with a sand wedge but bigger differences in ball speed as I went to longer clubs – ball speeds starting falling short and so were the distances. Its just felt like the physical light weight of the limited flight balls could not come off the face fast enough to generate the ball speed of a real ball - especially when hitting longer clubs.

SW was about 3-5 yards short , 6i Iron was about ~10-15 yards shorter and 3 wood – Brush being 20 yards shorter and Almost ball being 30 shorter…

My take is If you are going to the spend money on a GC2 then you want to hit real balls, otherwise you are negating the reason to buy a system like this. Its possible a system that lets you select a club would have done better with these balls – just a guess – seems like the lower spin caused the balls to fly lower and shorter – especially with longer clubs. Low launch and low spin is not a good combo for distance…

You have no option for hitting real balls with your setup, bubba?

[bubba22]

Thanks a lot js1010. Awesome info and what I suspected. I could add a net to hit real balls. GC2 is an awesome unit. I think this company will do really well.

[blackfire]

My setup is good - still a little raw as I am in my garage – always a work in progress

My biggest issue right now is lighting - I need / want a lot of lot over me hitting so the video from cameras comes out clear - (less light you lose the ability to see the shaft through impact) but i don't want the light going on the sim screen as you lose contrast fast.


That’s a good idea about club selection and sounds vey do-able, RDH . I have also sent numerous emails to Foresight about improving the software game play. These are really general GSA software enhancement I believe and not sure how they work it out with them.

Teeing off - I a lot of times I have to go to the computer to see distances to bunkers and other hazards – I would like them to show me distances to bunkers and other things by default on the mini map so I don’t have to go to the computer to check all the time. Some holes are better than other on this.

Also, show me distances to the front , back, center of green on approach shots. I have a sky caddie that I use in real golf – why not show this kind of info. THis data has to be there already – just display it so the game play experience improves.

Hey js1010,

I'd like if you can tell me more about your camera setup.

what camera are you using?

witch software V1sports???

what are you using to interface the camera with your computer and the software?

Thanks

[js1010]

Hey BlackFire, I have two Panansonic Gs320 cameras and using them with Cswing software. I have a separate monitor that shows video from down the line and from the front view - these are triggered to replay my swing from both views after each swing.

I had do some scripting to get this to work the way I wanted - I monitor the foresight log file as it updated after every swing to then trigger cswing to replay my swing from both views.

you may not need to do all this as most golf software has a hit detection via a microphone - but I had an issue with cswing not recognizing my shots because of the double hit (impact with ball and then the screen). V1 may do a better job of it.

Only thing that is problematic with doing video and golf simulation is the lighting situation - as you need a lot of light to have clear video but you don't want the light shining on the impact screen as it washes it out.

[blackfire]

thanks i'll ask you more question later about your script I do't understand if you scrip GC2 or cswing

[js1010]

Blackfire,


Not scripting the GC2 software except for the polling of the Foresight logfile to see when a new shot has been struck. I have both cswing and foresight software running at the same time - one on a monitor and the sim software on the projection screen.

Polling of this logfile for a shot which then triggers my script to sort of “send keystrokes” to cswing to tell it a shot has been struck and to replay the last few seconds of live video capture.

You may not need to go the scripting route – most video analysis software have a “hit detection” feature via microphone which should work so you don’t have to do the scripting that I have done and get same outcome. I could not get the “hit detection” feature to work with Cswing and have contacted them about it and they recognized the issue that the double sound is screwing up their hit detection function. I already invested in Cswing so I wanted to make it work.

Another option for video integration is to talk to V1 software folks as they have an integrated version of their software to work with Foreishgt specifically. I believe it will capture the swings and also save the swing numbers along with it the swing so you can reference it all later on. I think it was pretty expensive though >1K so I ended up doing something myself for now although I don’t have the swing launch numbers saved with each swing.


This setup is really beneficial if you are working on your swing – so great to be able to hit a shot – see it rendered on the simulation screen and then also be able to look over at another monitor and watch your swing replay from two angles.

[blackfire]

thant's exactly what I'm in to about camera but if V1 intergrate's with foresight I will probably go this way.

yes almost 2000$ for the V1 software, plus 600$ for the PC card connection and i don't know how mutch for the 2 CAM

[bubba22]

What is your handicap Blackfire?

[blackfire]

13 after too years played 79 once and a few 80 and 81 but was so working differente swing that I was concentrating too mutch on the driver and irons and I forgot to work on my short and putting game.

[bubba22]

Very good. It will get lower. My advice (I also need to take this advice), is to work more on your chipping and putting as well as approach shots inside your wedge range. The sims for me are not great for chipping or putting but the wedge game can really be practiced.

[blackfire]

yes bubba I agree about chipping, putting and everything.

personaly I have a practice green in my garage

your freak or your not

[bubba22]

Perfect setup Blackfire.

[blackfire]

I'm e-mailing wit the GC2 rep sinces a few weeks and As the protee rep joined us yesterday and he's salling is product like arep do I asked the rep from GC2 to comme and do the same for this forum. If he does it will be grate to have them both.

[blackfire]

Well he did'nt to snob maybe

[blackfire]

[QUOTE=js1010;388040]Hey BlackFire, I have two Panansonic Gs320 cameras and using them with Cswing software. I have a separate monitor that shows video from down the line and from the front view - these are triggered to replay my swing from both views after each swing.

whanted to ask if you need a lot of light for the camera to be able to get good image of the swing

[js1010]

Yes, you do need decent light. The more light you have the better the video is and better you can see the shaft throughout the swing, especially at impact.

I have a bunch of lights over my hitting area and have some black fabric hung from the ceiling between the row lights and my simulation screen to prevent most of the light from hitting my impact screen. My setup is in the garage and kind of crude but it works ok for now.

I do plan on having my sim in my home someday so I am still trying to find best ways to keep hitting area bright while leave impact screen in the dark.