GC2 - Game Changer - Foresightsports - Feedback

[db-webser]

Hi,

does anybody run a GC2 system? And can give feedback to the pro and contra of the system? Thanks for reply!

Dieter

[bubba22]

The GC2 looks awesome. No real reviews although Cory has talked a little bit about it. The pros are accuracy, ease of use, GSA graphics, ability to hit off multiple surfaces etc. The cons are lack of club data feedback, inconvenience with left and right users and the cost. If anybody has a review that would be great. db do you have a sim or are you shopping?

[bubba22]

I had a long chat with the folks at Foresight golf today. What a good system they have in the gc2. I asked about the ability to use limited flight balls but he was not sure. I mentioned the almost, Cayman, Brush T etc and he said he would get back to me. The sim has 2 cameras that use stereotopic high speed inches for only the first 10 inches and simulate launch, side spin, backspin and azumuth to determine the ball flight. They estimate club head speed and carry/distance. Awesome loking sim but at a hefty price. For now no real club data.

[rdh]

The GC2 definitely looks cool - the accuracy sounds pretty amazing. In hindsight I probably still would have went with the Pro 7 for the right/left hand limitation and wanting club feedback, but if they are ever able to address those issues it will pretty much be the only way to go for a system in the next tier up from the P3Pro, etc...albeit a big tier jump. I would LOVE to be able to hit off of rough and sand panels.

[bubba22]

Ya it is a big jump. My wife has totally given me the go ahead but I want to wait and see what else is in the horizon (GGS,ProTee etc). I totally agree with you about the left right issues and definitely lack of club feedback. I think the sensor based systems have that advantage of good, accurate club feed back. Disadvantage however of hitting from a specified location. You can't win .

[rdh]

If you go to the BLOG link on the foresight sports website, there's a posting about being at the Ontario PGA Golf Merchandise Show next week. Could be a good venue to see the product first hand for anyone in this area considering it.

[bubba22]

I looked at that and think that it is only for the golf industry folks. Anybody know?

[rdh]

With the amount of posting you do on here bubba, you've gotta be considered part of the industry by now!!!

[bubba22]

You would think! I would love to go and test the gc2. Maybe I'll look into it.

[db-webser]

I've talk to the foresight team at the Golf Europe in munich. At the next merchandise show in USA maybe april 2011 there will be an add-on with another two cams for the club head. The developing of this add-on is at final stage.

The actual GC2 has a connection port for this add-on at his right side.

The GC2 definitely looks cool - the accuracy sounds pretty amazing. In hindsight I probably still would have went with the Pro 7 for the right/left hand limitation and wanting club feedback, but if they are ever able to address those issues it will pretty much be the only way to go for a system in the next tier up from the P3Pro, etc...albeit a big tier jump. I would LOVE to be able to hit off of rough and sand panels.

[rdh]

Very cool - that will close one of the big gaps with the device. Once that's in place, I may have opted for the GC2 rather than the Pro 7, although I still hate the left/right hand limitation (my father is left handed and I have him over to play sometimes). But man, the accuracy sounds amazing...and hitting off the different surfaces would be fantastic.

[bubba22]

That is the approach I thought they would take to get more club data as opposed to indirectly estimating the club data from the ball data. The problem is more cameras like that mean more money$$$$$. I wonder how much more?

[rdh]

Right...I wasn't even thinking of that. How much is the GC2 with GSA Golf right now anyway?

[bubba22]

Base GC2 unit is roughly 6500. Software is 1500. Courses are roughly 10 for 1000 but I am not sure how many courses are ready now.

[walb0034]

I was seriously considering purchasing a GC2 a few months back (went with the P3Pro mainly because of clubhead feedback as a learning tool) but the folks at foresight were really great about helping me out.

I spoke with Matt Baumgardner and he arranged for me to demo the unit at a local country club that had purchased 2 of them. They did not have the purchased software/simulation to go along with it, only the unit on the driving range as a tool to measure spin/distance/etc... but I will say it was super fast and worked amazingly well. Distances/spin seemed perfect on the range for every shot.

I hit real balls at the range so I can't comment on compatibility with limited flight golf balls.

Once I really figure out my swing and become a little more consistent I will probably ebay my p3pro and move into one of these. Such a sweet package!

[psace]

It's definitely a big jump from the p3pro to the next level. If I were younger I would definitely go for the this one. The p3pro still leaves me wanting more so I will just stay with DD for now.

[bubba22]

It is a massive jump from the p3pro. For an equivalent amount of courses with the GC2 you are well over 10 grand and that is not including the extra cameras for club data. Certainly the jump from the dd to p3pro is nothing compared to the jump from the p3pro to the gc2. How much you want the gc2 depends on the individual and their finances. It would be a pleasure to have. I still think that the launch monitors are more geared for clubfitters and teaching pros but the avid home user may want a system like this. If p3pro does gt going with their vector integration and if that integration works with the GSA courses then that option of p3pro and vector would be a serious contender at a much lower cost. The vaue of the vector in launch, spin etc is very similair to the GC2.

[js1010]

Dieter, I bought a GC2 this year and can give you my review of it.. Sorry, Cory – I am US based.

My requirements were:

• Wanted a very accurate system to use as a practice tool for improving my game and swing mechanics.
• Also wanted a system that I could play Simulation Golf. Some of the other launch monitor systems out there do not offer Simulation Golf, just a range software.
• Did not want to build any kind of platform to hit from
• 10K overall – which included my projector, screen, and cage, turf.

After researching just about all the options out there - I eventually chose the GC2 - here are some of the pros and cons I considered

Pros

• Great Accuracy - All Measured Ball Data via high speed cameras (Launch Angle, Ball Speed ,Horizontal Angle (Azimuth),Side Spin ,Back Spin )
• No need to select a club before hitting a shot
• Portable – can take it to the range (has 8 hour battery).
• No Platform or special lighting needed – just set it down in front of you and hit
• Good Software for Practice and Simulation Play - Same as GSA with a few specific modules developed for Foresight (Practice and Fitting Module)

Cons

• No Club head data currently ( soon enough, hopefully – was told they are trying to get something to show at the January PGA show)
• Lefty and Righty switch is a pain. This is not a huge issue for me. I do know they have a Bluetooth wireless feature coming very soon , so it would be easier to move back and forth
• Have to buy the courses in packs and seem to be priced higher than GSA.

Loved all the Pros but struggled with the biggest Con - GC2 lacks the club head data. The only reason I went ahead and bought it (Past Spring) was because they assured me they were working on a way to add club head tracking to the current unit. I figured this was an investment for the longer term and would wait a little while for the club head data.

Not having to select a club before each shot is a great feature that isn’t talked about much. Outside of not having to go to the computer all the time to select - it also tells you something about the accuracy of this ball tracking system vs a system that calculates spin..
All systems that I have researched that calculate spin rates based on club head tracking at impact- you need you to pick a club. I have really enjoyed practicing with different clubs as if I was at an outdoor range – just hitting balls.

6 months after the purchase , I am very happy with my decision even though I still don’t have club head data information. The ball flight it produces is great in my opinion. I am a low single digit and have I have hit thousands of balls on it and at this point. I trust that the resulting Ball Flight is rendered very accurately on screen: draws , fades, pushes , pulls, high and low shots, flops, even a couple shanks - very cool stuff.

Foresight uses Simulation Software from Red Chain - same basic software that is GSA software – Very good graphics and playability. Foresight also has a Learning Center (range product) and a fitting module which can be used to compare - spin rates , distance, carry, offline, angle of decent and other ball launch numbers that you can compare to other clubs.

Obviously, product is not cheap – I am happy with what I got for the cost. But, as others have said – it really on depends on features most important to you and your budget.


Let me know if you have other questions – happy to answer…

[rdh]

Wow - thanks for contributing that js1010. I think you may have been in touch with me to ask about the Pro 7 when you were making your decision. It's great that you pointed out not having to select a club in the software due to the measured spin. You're right...that point hasn't been coming up in recent discussions around the GC2. And not needing overhead lighting or a special platform is another big plus. It really does sound fantastic. I'm happy with my Pro 7, and the left/right thing always bothered me about devices like the GC2, but I have to say that considering all the pros, and with the upcoming club head add-on, I strongly suspect I would have went the GC2 route if it had been on the market when I bought last year. Glad to hear you're enjoying it!

[bubba22]

Just the info we need. js1010 have you or can you try hitting limited flight balls to see what the results are and how accurate with these balls? Brush t/ almost balls etc. Awesome to get your reviews and pros/cons.

[js1010]

Yes, RDH - Pro 7 was the other system it was down to for me - I struggled with the decision for weeks

Pro 7 is great but just didn't want to build a platform and the other issue that turned me off at the time was Golftek not wanting to sell me GSA software.

Just checked back in to the forum the other day - great to see the changes in the forum - felt kind of weird after a while posting about non DD stuff in that thread.

Actually checked back because I have been thinking about a 1080P projector as well - will follow your other thread.

[js1010]

Bubba, Seeing the GC2 reads the ball with a bunch of high res images just after impact, my guess is those balls don't generate the same ball speed as a real ball and won't give good distance numbers

I believe I have a few different balls to try, however - will report back tomorrow...

[bubba22]

Thanks. Thew limited flight balls claim to have a normal initial ball velocity and launch which changes during flight to reduce distance compared to real balls. With the vector I find the initial ball velocity near normal with the limited flight balls. I use these balls in my sim and if/when I upgrade sims I would want to continue using them. The GC2 folks did not know the answer to the limited flight balls. Great if you could give us a rough comparison. Thanks in advance.

[db-webser]

@bubba22

in munich i used severall balls like "long distance" and "more spin" - with the GC2 i shot the "long distance" balls longer - but i only test two hits, so i'm not sure if it is the ball or if i had a realy good clubcontact.

@all

in munich the gc2-team told me the club face add-on will presented at the PGA-Show at january and start of selling will be april 2011. pricing for add-on round about 3000 US$

Dieter

[bubba22]

3 thousand for the club add on. Just as I thought. So now the price of that unit with the club add on, software for club analysis and courses is close to 15 grand. That is not cheap. I still think the pro7 is the gold standard for home sims. Don't get me wrong the gc2 is completely awesome. You can debate the need for direct spin measurement for the average home sim. Obviously having it is better but at a higher cost. I just wish the gc2 was a little bit cheaper especially the course add ons. For me knowing what the club is doing at impact is critical as is the launch. Pro7 has all that and more. .

[db-webser]

I think same - if the add-on will be at 3000 the price for the whole system is to high. And the club face measurement is only usefull if the clubface and path is shown in a software.

I think the expensive software (specifically the courses) is the problem. If the complete system incl. 10 courses will be at a price of round about 9.999 US$ - than it will be a money making machine.

If Martin from GSA force all his knowledge and set focus in his LX2-Quad system and will test it and debug the complete system BEFORE release, he can be the winner of the race to a perfect sim under 10.000 US$ - i hope he know about his chance.

[rdh]

Yeah...they're not really targeted at the home market at that price. I wouldn't have been able to spend that much. I went beyond my limit to get the Pro 7 as it was, which was in the $9K range including the GSA software.

The GC2 is a fantastic piece of technology for those that have the budget...but once you get to the $15K range I wonder if you'd be better to look at a stationary camera system that would accommodate left/right handed players. You might be able to get that at a comparable price...so long as you don't need the portability aspect and have the space for the setup. Systems in those price ranges are more for commercial settings or the big-wig executive types though. All in all, I'm happy with my Pro 7 for the price.

[bubba22]

All good points. I do think that if Martins LX2 Quad or the ADX mat ever flies then he will be the winner as you say. The problem for me is that the gc2 is just too pricey when u look at the club add on (a must for me) and the expense of the courses. Martin just needs to focus on i think the LX camera launch monitor as well as the adx sensor pad. The price he is advertising especially with the Prox and GSA courses is well within my budget and certainly cheaper than the gc2.

[rdh]

I do wish Martin would just make a decision that for the next 3 months (or whatever), he would focus purely on properly finishing off one good system and thoroughly testing and tweaking it. If he'd do that, his potential to succeed would be far greater than endlessly developing a series of products that may or may not ever be completed and given a proper launch. He seems to be a real engineer type that just loves creating stuff...he needs a business partner to cross the Ts and dot the Is and work with him to get things done FULLY. I do like him and I do want to see him succeed at this.

[db-webser]

But if he still working with the mat he reduce his customers. Because hitting from diffrent surfaces or maybe going outdoor or in a driving range, the hitting mats won't be strong enough.

But without mat the problem of shock absorbing is eliminated. If i had the decision, i will focus a cam only system as GC2 do. Martin had one advantage, he earns money with his GSA-Software and can neglect the own pricing for software. A very great advantage!

Thumbs up for Martin, but he should focus his development, solve all problems and THAN make business. Not incidentally sell a unstable system! But i like him - he is a great developer with a great software.

But.. if Foresight reduce prices for hardware - Martin will face problems.