Am I wrong in my thinking...

[rezadue]

I have played the Greensmere challenge and had no hope in hell of winning anything, whether Thunder and lightning played or not. And that is ok. Them is the breaks. The best people usually win.

What I did think though, was that it would have been nice if the prizes were split such that, the best people still got the best prizes, but at least those of us with no chance of winning still had a chance of winnning something worthy via pure luck (Name draw or 50:50 or something) so that it would still be appealing to a hacker like me.

To that end, I would suggest you talk to the tournament organizer about the re-division and distribution of prizes.

[Shushu]

I don't want anything to happen to these guy's. I've said repeatedly that they seemed like nice guy's and really....who doesn't play for some sort of money on a game to game basis. They found a winning combination and I beleive I would stick with something that works too. I am new to this type of competition I guess. So far it looks like there is a 50/50 outlook on if this is fair competition or not. This was a learning lesson for me. Would you enter a tourney knowing they were in it and you have no chance. Nice guy's or not. They'll kill you with score.

If you dont want to play with the big boys than stay at home or stick to handicap/flight tournaments. Im pretty sure that they played in this tournament last year and didnt win, as well as many other tournaments they eneter. As for Blueman, you think that Koski and Mcgee make $10 000 a year in scramble tournaments, give your head a shake. I guess you know this first hand because.... and as far as ratting people out to the "governing boards", give me a break. Im sure that the 75 teams that were playing in the event were trying to make some money, are you gonna rat on them aswell. Im pretty sure Smith Falls had a four man scramble where some team won some money..... all it takes is one call to the RCGA.

Give me a break to all the complainers out there. If you dont want to play in these types of tournament because you dont think you are good enough, then dont. But come on, ratting people out thats weak.

[Shushu]

HAHA...Thunder and Lightning...Really?

I have played the Greensmere challenge and had no hope in hell of winning anything, whether Thunder and lightning played or not. And that is ok. Them is the breaks. The best people usually win.

What I did think though, was that it would have been nice if the prizes were split such that, the best people still got the best prizes, but at least those of us with no chance of winning still had a chance of winnning something worthy via pure luck (Name draw or 50:50 or something) so that it would still be appealing to a hacker like me.

To that end, I would suggest you talk to the tournament organizer about the re-division and distribution of prizes.

[sharkshooter]

I guess I have to start thinking about whether or not I like not winning. I don't buy lottery tickets because I know I'm going to lose. I bought a Cheo Lottery Ticket with the full intention of someone handing over the keys to the Grand Prize house to me. I don't enter competitions to lose either.

You might have a better chance of winning the golf than the CHEO lottery, or any lottery, that is. However, the chance of having a good time is much better at a golf tournament, than at a ticket kiosk, buying a lottery ticket.

[4jag]

Why would you play in a tournament if you didnt have a chance to win it

In the words of Ricky-Bobby "If you ain't first, you're last."

[albatrossman]

If this really was an amateur tournament, I am wondering why one team was awarded more than one prize. At many clubs, they would be given the most prestigious prize (and perhaps any longest drive/closest to the pin prizes), but they would not qualify for the other prizes. If this was what I would call a "gray" zone amateur tournament, I assume that all of the participants would know this in advance. Apparently, this was not the case here.

[BC MIST]

Amateur status Rule 3-1 (page 155 of the RCGA Rule book) states "An amateur golfer must not play for prize money or its equivalent in a match, competition or exhibition."

[Kilroy]

That seems to be in direct conflict with the Acceptable Forms of Gambling

[Kilroy]

So if this is an amateur only competition and some players win money, none of them would be eligible to re-enter in the years to come?

[mikelaurin]

If thats the case dont think there would be to many amateurs on this board

[Kilroy]

Pssst.... Here, look inside this can of worms...

[Shushu]

You haven't seen my game lately. I very well could win the lottery first before winning a tourney with that 2 some in it.

You might have a better chance of winning the golf than the CHEO lottery, or any lottery, that is. However, the chance of having a good time is much better at a golf tournament, than at a ticket kiosk, buying a lottery ticket.

[ping66]

The RCGA and the OVGA are well aware of these kinds of cash events, they are well aware of the individuals that play and win money in them too. I would suspect that they will be coming down on these events soon. There is alot of $$ that is made at these events. I think as long as you keep it within reason its not a problem. Look at college players, they get room board, tuition, clubs, travel etc. WHats the difference if a few players make $2-3k a year............

Amatuer in latin means "for the love of the game"

[HoganWoods]

I'm not sure where I com down on this. I know that when I enter an event like this one I do not expect to win even if I were to play my very best and have tiger woods with me. I also don't blame these guys for what they are doing, I'd probably do the same. I do however see how going from tourney to tourney like they do (according to some of you) could be considered "hustling", if they are winning most of them. However, most tournament do give more than half their prizes out as draws anyways, so it's not like all is lost for the rest of the field. Tough call... I personally would love to be able to see them play and it would be worth it for me. If i played 5 tourneys a year and they won every one, then I might be **.

On another note, this is why tourneys with different flights are great. (except for the sandbaggers)

[nokids]

Look at college players, they get room board, tuition, clubs, travel etc. WHats the difference if a few players make $2-3k a year............

yep, yesterday I read this article about a 12 handicap golfer who won some money in the States, went to the USGA to admit he made some money, and they stripped him of amateur status. yet college players get wayy more than $1000 in tuition/clubs/travel/board. what a joke.

http://www.inaga.org/jpros-a-cons-of-amateur

[Slicer&Dicer]

Good topic.

I have never played in any of these (paid tourneys) but to me it all seems like what do you expect for your money.

If you enter an open tourney like this, it sounds like you know you have no hope of winning, regardless of who's in the field and that's ok, so what does it matter if the winners have won say their last 1000 tourneys?

If you want to really avoid these guys, make sure any tourney you sign up has a cancellation policy (if possible) for these guys?

How can any tourney avoid this kind of dominance?

- Maybe have the all winning money and prizes handed out randomly amongst all category winners so that even the team or person with the worst score has a chance to win the top prize(s)?
- You are only allowed to win once (50/50 not included)
- Have categories for bad golf as well, like shortest/worst drive, etc.

It's up to the tourney’s director to set the rules and make sure everyone has fun. I would talk to them if it really kinda bothers you and see what their take on this is.

If the idea of the tourney is to award a large prize (say $1000) to the best scoring team, I wouldn't enter if I knew I would have a problem if someone particular won.

Sounds like these two folks should be commended on their skills and if they are not breaking any tourney or RCGA amateur rules, then kudos to them.

They can't dominate forever.

However, if a tourney is almost over before it begins, to me it loses something.

[BC MIST]

yep, yesterday I read this article about a 12 handicap golfer who won some money in the States, went to the USGA to admit he made some money, and they stripped him of amateur status. yet college players get wayy more than $1000 in tuition/clubs/travel/board. what a joke.

A $1000 voucher is an acceptable prize but $1000 in CASH is not. To which one is what college players get more comparable?

The author of your article implied that if you accept cash you are a professional. Rather, you are a "non-amateur,' obviously meaning that participating in am or pro events is not possible.

Additionally, my partner and I went into the ST to enjoy a unique format and to test our skills against the course and other golfers. Winning what we did was incidental to everything else and as I stated elsewhere, it was one of the most enjoyable days on the course in a long time, money won or not.

But in the back of my mind there is something inherently wrong with those amateurs who travel from scramble to scramble where the love of the game is replaced by the lust for money. Scrambles with a Calcutta, where others or the players can "buy" a team or individuals, are not only against the Rules of Golf but against the gambling laws. Again, the money is of paramount importance, not the game.

It will be interesting to what if anything happens regarding these money tournaments and if changes are required, and if prize vouchers are awarded in lieu of cash, if participation will go down.

[HoganWoods]

But in the back of my mind there is something inherently wrong with those amateurs who travel from scramble to scramble where the love of the game is replaced by the lust for money.

It's called hustling. If they were pool players things would get ugly.

[sharkshooter]

The RCGA and the OVGA are well aware of these kinds of cash events, they are well aware of the individuals that play and win money in them too. I would suspect that they will be coming down on these events soon.

Perhaps even the CRA will become aware of it and tax the winnings as professional income.

[Chambokl]

It's called hustling. If they were pool players things would get ugly.

Why... are you telling me it doesn't happen in pool, what about bowling, what about hockey, what about slo-pitch, dart, .... the same thing happens at all open tournament.

Note: The rest is a general comment not directed to HoganWoods

I can't believe the attitude of some people... If I don't have a chance to win I am going home... please don't go home, just stay home... open tournament are just what they are open.... sandbaggers tournament with flight are also what they are...

Please, everyone should just enjoy the game... if you go into a tournament and ONLY winning would make you happy, try something else... but be warn the something happens in most sports.

[Brewcee]

You can hardly call this hustling. For one, everyone knows they are good and likely to win if they enter, so who is getting hustled. Its not like they show up and ask if they can rent a set of clubs and pretend they don't know what hand they are.

[HoganWoods]

You can hardly call this hustling. For one, everyone
knows they are good and likely to win if they enter, so who is getting hustled. Its not like they show up and ask if they can rent a set of clubs and pretend they don't know what hand they are.

Alot of people don't know who they are, case in point this thread wouldn't exist otherwise.

I'm not sure if hustle is the right word either. As mentioned before I would probably do the same thing if these tourneys allowed me to play.. if I were them. So I'm not sure where I stand on this, but if they do go from tourney to tourney (again, I don't know if they do, it was mentioned earlier), then that is a bit sketchy to me. These aren't professional tournament, they are meant to be for fun and not for profit.

[GarthM]

These aren't professional tournament, they are meant to be for fun and not for profit.

No offense but this type of tournament is for profit, plain and simple. As is Smith Falls, Maniwaki etc.

The Brian Smith Charity Tournament is for fun. The Pigale's tournament is for fun . Your work scramble tournament is for fun.

If you want to have fun play in a charity scramble. If you want to put your $$ up against the big boys, play in the money scrambles but buyer beware, there are some damn good golfers out there.

Why do you think there was a whole thread devoted to the "Fall $$$ Scrambles"? Because folks want to make some $$$.

[HoganWoods]

Half you say its for fun and now you come and say it's for profit. I guess it depends on the person.

Where do I sign up for Pigale's tourney? lol Sounds more fun...

[GarthM]

Half you say its for fun and now you come and say it's for profit.

Never said it was for fun dude...

[HoganWoods]

Nah, not you. But as I was reading this thread most comments were that it doesn't bother them because they join these events for the fun of it. But now I realize (after reading your posts) that some do it for the money, just like the 2 players we are discussing do. I don't know enough about what tourneys they play or how many they've won to comment further.

[Ruskie]

Alot of people don't know who they are, case in point this thread wouldn't exist otherwise.

If you're entering an open scramble tourney you can be pretty sure there'll be some scratch golfers there, regardless of who they are, so if you're new to tournament play you're not likely to win anyway. If you're a scratch golfer yourself, you would most likely know who's entered and what your chances are.

As for "hustling", I don't see how you can apply the term to open tournaments. They're called "open" for a reason, and unless you're a star player, there'll always be someone better, especially if there's money involved.

[Brewcee]

Maybe barnstorming is a better word than hustling.

[jeffc]

No offense but this type of tournament is for profit, plain and simple. As is Smith Falls, Maniwaki etc.

The Brian Smith Charity Tournament is for fun. The Pigale's tournament is for fun . Your work scramble tournament is for fun.

If you want to have fun play in a charity scramble. If you want to put your $$ up against the big boys, play in the money scrambles but buyer beware, there are some damn good golfers out there.

Why do you think there was a whole thread devoted to the "Fall $$$ Scrambles"? Because folks want to make some $$$.

more importantly...THERE'S A PIGALES TOURNAMENT?????

[ironmaster15213]

Why does everybody assume that everybody that plays in these tournaments are just looking for cash??? Is it not possible that they just want to improve their skills against a lot of very good golfers. The prizes are nice but sometimes very incidental. I was just invited to fill a spot in a two man scramble at a very tough course, I couldn't afford the entry fee but the gentleman running the event asked me to take another persons spot since he couldn't make it. I was paired with a 12 handicap player that I didn't even know, but I play to pit my skills against others not to take home big bucks even though I could use every buck. Well we played very well together, he kept his ball near the fairway about 230 out and gave me a chance to bomb the ball 40 yards further sometimes even more. But it really came down to putting and we putted very well on the very tough undulating greens and came in at 6 under, I must confess that I didn't think we would be under par. It was a very enjoyable day and I heard my share of unbelief that we could shoot so low but luckily there was that other team playing with us to vouch for our play. I donated all my winnings back to the foundation that they were trying to raise money for so I don't have any guilty conscience about not having to pay for anything and winning money. Personally I would play with pros all day long and lose lots of money just to see how this wonderful game can be played if you put your time and effort into it. Always try to push yourself to be better than you think you can be.