Provisional ball played twice before finding original ball

[mberube]

A friend played a match play last week. His opponent hit his second shot in the woods on the right side of the green. He dropped a provisional and chunked it 20 yards. He then walked up to his provisional 20 yards farther and hit it on the green without looking for his original ball because he was still far from the green. Walks up to the green, finds his original ball, chips it close and saved par.

When the player hit the provisional ball a second time, did he automatically declare the original ball lost?

[NoBack]

I believe you can play your provisional right up to your first ball then abandon the provisional if you find the original and not count the strokes taken with the provisional.

[mberube]

I believe you can play your provisional right up to your first ball then abandon the provisional if you find the original and not count the strokes taken with the provisional.

That surprises me.

I can’t find any ruling for this.

Mike

[jvincent]

This is an easy one. From Rule 27-2, I quote:

" b. When Provisional Ball Becomes Ball in Play
The player may play a provisional ball until he reaches the place where the original ball is likely to be. If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost and the provisional ball becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1). "

[4jag]

I'm still a little confused by this. Where my ball is likely to be and where I actually found it could be different spots.

The ball entered the trees here and therefore is likely to be near here, but it actually bounced ahead some 20 yards up the fairway. So if it takes me two strokes with my provisional to get to the spot where my ball really is I'm stuck with the provisional?

[Kilroy]

I always thought it was, play your provisional. Once you are past where you think the ball is, you may keep looking if you like (max 5 min) if you find your original ball 100 yards farther up ( hit a rock or the like) then you had not really passed your ball when you thought you had and therefore may play the original. You may have taken 6 shots with the provisional but none of them count if you find the original ball.

Perhaps Gary can give us a hand with the interpretation of the phrasing on this one

[Gary Hill]

Where my ball is likely to be and where I actually found it could be different spots.

You may play your provisional ball as many times as it takes to get to the place where your original ball is likely to be.

Once you reach that place, you may not play the provisional ball again or it will become the ball in play.

It is irrelevant where the ball is actually found.

[Kilroy]

That seems to favour an obviously mistaken assumption (the ball is likely to be here) over a fact (Ball is here).

I do not understand how this can be.

[Gary Hill]

That seems to favour an obviously mistaken assumption (the ball is likely to be here) over a fact (Ball is here).I do not understand how this can be.

There are NO facts.
You don't know where the ball is.
The intent of a provisional ball is ONLY to save you a walk back to the spot of the original stroke.

You designate a place where you think the ball is likelly to be.
You have no idea whether or not the ball is at that place.
You must play a provisional ball BEFORE you go forward to that place.
You may play the provisional ball as many times as necessary to reach that place.

Once you reach that place, the provisional ball becomes "frozen".
You may search for 5 minutes anywhere you like for the original ball.

There can only be two results:

1. You find the original ball within the five minutes. This automatically makes the provisional ball "abandoned".

2. You dont find the original ball within 5 minutes. The provisional ball automatically becomes the ball in play.

Also, after reaching that place, if you make another stroke at the provisional ball BEFORE either of these numbered events; then the provisional ball automatically becomes the ball in play and the original ball is automatically lost whether or not the 5 minutes has elapsed.

[Kilroy]

Thanks for clarifying, but it still seems pretty odd that I am out of luck just because I look for it where I think it is, continue to play the provisional and then then find it farther up. Good to know.

[Gary Hill]

but it still seems pretty odd that I am out of luck

You have 5 minutes to find your ball whether or not you play a provisional ball.

The provisional ball Rule changes nothing in that regard.

So the only "luck" involved is whether or not you find your ball.

If you dont find it, then you either go back to spot of the original stroke or have the convenience of playing a nearby provisional ball. Nothing more; nothing less.

[g8r]

so what if you take a quick look, say for 1 minute and think that the area is too wooded, rough too thick, etc, hit your provisional, but not 10 steps later you find your original (one could argue that you believe that your ball may be further ahead, but you are going to hit your provisional and keep looking), you are within the 5 minutes, can you play your original sans penalty?

[Gary Hill]

10 steps later you find your original

It is IMPOSSIBLE to find your orginal ball.

Rule 27-2b
...... If he makes a stroke with the provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place, the original ball is lost....