Going from best to worst - Help Needed

[Spezza_Fan]

Hi Guys,
Please help me out here because I'm in desperate need of saving. 4 weeks ago this upcoming Saturday, I played my best round of golf ever. 10 of 14 fairways hit, 29 putts for an unimaginable (for me) round of 75 at the Gatineau. I still call this a fluke round and I couldn't believe how everything I hit went exactly where I wanted. 1 week later, I play a round of 86 with only 1 fairway hit, and 35 putts at the Champlain. 1 week later, I shoot a horrid round at the Meadows. I shot a 97 with only 2 fairways hit (with irons) and 34 putts. I had 5 penalty strokes there because of lost drives. Fast forward to yesterday where I played the Vieux Moulins. I play my worst round there for 93 with only 3 fairways hit (1 with iron and 2 with my hybrid. My putting was off at 39 but my scrambling is what's been saving me lately.

Anyways, here's the story and the question. I'm a really big guy (400 pounds) and I used to be able to really lean into the ball. I wasn't a monster hitter but 270 was my average. My drive consisted of a fade not a slice. In the last 2 years I've seen it go from dead straight to full out slice where I'm playing from 1-2 fairways over. Now I've totally lost my trust in this driver. My irons play straight with a very subtle fade to them and I hit them well. I've gone to the range over 20 times this year to try and correct this. Everytime I go, I end up being able to hit them straight by the end of my bucket. Everytime however, I end up finding something new. Open face, no release, stance is wrong. But last time I went I really think I found what my problem was. I have a severe out-to-in swing. I think this may be due to my size and my lack of movement (the gut is in the way you know). My question is, other than the fact that I need to lose weight, what kind of tips or techniques are out there to cure an out-to-in swing? I'm really getting discouraged with this game the way I'm playing. I'm at the point now that I don't even swear or talk, I just hit/miss and bite my lip and hit my second shot from the other fairway of from the trees. Also, because I'm trying to straighten everything out, I'm trying to slow my swing speed and that's causing me to a lot of distance. I usually end up being 200-225 from the tee-box that's 50-70 yards shorter than normally.

Do I need to take lessons? I'd like to just get this out-to-in thing fixed to see if that's the problem. If it isn't that, I'll be booking a couple of lessons with someone.

Thanks for your help guys!

Derek

[nokids]

Two weeks ago I was in your situation. Slicing balls so badly right that I lost about 10 tee shots at Stonebridge. I'm sure I had the out-to-in swing, plus the open clubface. So how did I fix it? Two things:

a) i went to the range and started hitting balls at HALF power. I had to swallow a lot of my ego, and started hitting balls like a senior. i hardly ever slice and sometimes the ball draws very nicely. little by little i'm getting more confidence back, and little by little i'm increasing the power in which i hit the driver. i'll sacrifice distance for accuracy anytime.

b) i have been practicing a tip i saw on the golf channel (golf fix) which says that my right hip is farthest away from my target (the hole) at setup. Which means that as I'm taking my swing, the right hip doesn't move to the right, it actually gets closer to the hole (slightly left). I'm the kind of person who used to sway back (to the right) as i took my backswing and swayed left (to the left) as I hit the ball. Practicing this tip has promoted a 'twisting' sensation to my swing. I have very sore ribs these days because of this new movement, but i am sure this is the right way to swing the clubs.

I've hit 10 or more fairways ever since I started doing these two things. I still fade the ball, but the aweful slice is gone. knock on wood.

[DenisO]

Out-to-in swing has got to be the most common swing issue, which is why most people slice, and I've tried a number of things.
Some key things I used to do to work on getting to a slight in-to-out swing is when I complete my backswing feel like you're holding your back toward the target a little bit longer as you start the downswing. Another thing I try to do is start my downswing from the bottom up, getting those legs moving and hips turning while you still feel like you're holding at the top. If you're firing those hips first before your arms, then they'll just fall into place instead of coming around and doing all the work, resulting in swinging out-to-in.

It's funny, I'll ask my friend to look at my swing as I'm doing some practice swings, and ask what its doing. I'm swinging and thinking I'm going in-to-out by a large amount, but he's like nope, that's pretty straight now. Good thing is I'm beginning to draw my ball now instead of fading/slicing which looks really nice and the added roll doesn't hurt

[Spezza_Fan]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I will try and go back to the range this week to try these things out. I noticed that when I go to the driving range and use the awful mats, I always hit straigh. Why? Well that's because the visual of the mat forces you to swing straight. How you ask, well you know how the carpet is different where the little "nipple" is? That mat is vertically pointed to where you want to go. It plays with you head forcing your club to come across it straight and that is why I normally hit it straigth. I want to be able to vizualize a straight line so I can focus on hitting from in to out. If played with a closed face it should technically produce a draw right?

[Big Johnny69]

D, I'll assume you are a right handed golfer. If you want to try your range/mat idea on the course, do the following. When you go to tee your ball, tee it right next to the right tee marker. You won't be able to swing out to in or you will hit the marker first. I got my buddy to try this the other day and his slice disappeared instantly. Granted it's a swing path you'd have to work on, but it's a great way to feel the proper swing path. He told me afterwards he was so nervous because he thought he was going to ruin his driver on the marker.

[justsomeguy]

I will try and go back to the range this week to try these things out. I noticed that when I go to the driving range and use the awful mats, I always hit straigh. Why? Well that's because the visual of the mat forces you to swing straight. How you ask, well you know how the carpet is different where the little "nipple" is? That mat is vertically pointed to where you want to go.

The visual of the mat helps with your alignment - it should do nothing for your actual swing. On the course you should stand behind your ball, pick out something on the ground 6-12 inches in front of your ball that lies on your target line - and line up your stance accordingly.

It plays with your head forcing your club to come across it straight and that is why I normally hit it straight. I want to be able to vizualize a straight line so I can focus on hitting from in to out. If played with a closed face it should technically produce a draw right?

Trying to come across the ball in a straight line will almost guarantee an out-to-in path. If you do this with a closed face you will produce a pull or pull-hook rather than a draw. The hardest part about hitting a true "draw" for someone who normally hits a fade/slice is the commitment to start the ball going TO THE RIGHT. To use a baseball analagy, don't try to hit the ball to centre field. Instead, try to hit the ball over the second baseman's head to the gap in right-centre.

DenisO's tips are good - especially for us "husky gentlemen" who have a tendency to make our first move back to the ball by turning the shoulders (the classic OTT move) instead of dropping the arms/turning the hips. Instead of trying to "slow down" your swing speed to accomplish this, you might find it easier to simply shorten your backswing and focus on making a good turn instead.

[nc_redneck]

I'm not a technical golfer at all, so what worked for me was changing my set up. I didn't want to have to think about my swing path, so instead I set up for every tee shot with my back foot (right for rightys) about 4 inches behind what would be parallel to my left. This forces me to swing more on plane, and I noticed my ball flight went from slice to straight/slight draw with no thoughts on changing my actual swing.

Another tip a local pro gave me sounds crazy but it worked also. He told me to separate my hands (slide right hand down an inch) on my grip which makes me release the club and square it at impact. I use the old 10 finger grip anyway, so this wasn't a big deal to try it. It feels weird at first but the results were great for me.

I basically use these modifications to allow for a faulty swing, but it has really helped.

Good luck!

[goley]

The out to in swing path is caused by an open clubface.... period. You are either opening it up in your backswing or you are opening it up on the downswing. If a persons had good clubface control but on out ot in swing path then they would pull the ball all the time. The other thing to consider is that a bit out to in swing path is needed in order to hit a straight ball with an iron, or a driver on the downswing.( thats a whole other threath on its own.)
First thing that I would do is go get on video, trackman/flightscope in order to identify the real problem. If you dont do that and are going to try to solve the problem on your own I would first make sure that in the takeaway the toe of the club is pointing a bit in half way back. The leading edge of the club should mirror your spine angle at half way back. As you swing the club up to the top of the swing make sure the leading edge of the club is on the same line as your left arm. If you have a netural grip the left wrist should also be flat and matching the clubface and left arm position. If your grip is not netural than just make sure that the leading edge of the clubface is on about a 45 degree angle.
Now that the backswing is in the right position you have to make sure that the transition doesnt open the face on the downswing. If the face is opening on the downswing you might want to try to apply some supinating. Feel as if you are pointing the back of the top hand down to the ground as you swing into impact.
If you fix your clubface but still have a tendancy to not swing on the proper path you will hit alot of shots that just pull to the left (if you are a righty). Once you fix your clubface you can then work on letting your arms work down and not over from the start of you downswing and working on the proper pivot motion.
As for the loss of distance if you are hitting the driver on the downswing instead of the up swing there is some serious loss of distance. The same swing speeds with different angle of attacks will lead to drastically different driving distances.
As for how to make these changes stick.. do a search of some of BCMists post. Slowly learning the static positions correctly and then doing them in slow motion but with full swing and in specific set is the way to make a change so it becomes automatic.

Long post but this is what I see on a daily basis.... Hope this helps.

Goley

[goochy]

Hi Derek

firstly congrats on a 75...that's a great round and if you've done it once there is no reason you can't do it again.

If a swing flaw has crept into your game, at the risk of sounding simplistic or unhelpful, I REALLY recommend seeing a CPGA pro and getting some expert help. They obviously see thousands of swings and by watching you will be able to help you. It could be the best $60 or so you can spend.

Get some recommendations if you like (my vote would be Colin Orr) but there are some great teaching pros around and a quick search on this forum will throw up some names.

Good luck mate

[pmar88]

Spezza, It sounds like you hit the golfer's wall. I was playing exceptional golf in May, hit the wall at the end of the month, took June off and focused on other sports like baseball, went to the range occassionally in June, then played again on July 1st and had an amazing round. It could have been a mental thing and all I needed was something to refresh my batteries. When I hit this wall, I was slicing badly. I made one small adjustment in my swing and now I can hit everything flush. Not to mention, my putting was even better without practice. Weird eh? That's golf for you.

[leftylucas]

The resemblence between your personal best and mine yesterday are uncanny, both the same score and the same venue. I am very pleased to know the end of the season is here. I can appreciate your concern for the game going south. It happened to me this summer after getting the HC to below 10 for the first time I went right back up to 11 in no time. I can second Goochy's sentiment to see a good teacher, that is the reason that my HC has gone from 16 July 09 to 9.5 today. You can analyse all you want but only a teacher is qualified enough to know what is causing problems.

[Wknd_Warrior]

I had open shoulders at address for a while, it promoted a slicing driver. Check you're some kind of square at the plate.