Impact screen

[archv6625]

My original wording may have been a little misleading. Its not distance from the projector that needs to remain constant, it is the distance from the focal plane that needs to remain constant. THe focal plane is (ideally) perfectly flat. SO if you have a 1 foot difference, you can either have the whole screen a little out of focus except 2 vertical columns somewhere between the edge and the center where the focal plane and screen intersect, or you could have the center in focus and the edges progressively more out of focus. On my own projector, a 1 foot change throws the image unaccepatably out of focus for my eyes.

[syhlif32]

Archv6625. No, you were perfectly clear! I just got this idea shucked in my head and wanted it to be a good idea.
I did try to setup a pvc fabric in one side and that did look ok, no issues with focus but will make a better test if I get any kind of pincushion effect!

[ZMax]

I can confirm that the Protee screen is a good one. I got it installed last Thursday and have played a few rounds on it. The Protee screen is made up of two layers and is considered a double sided screen. It has grommets on the top and sides. No grommets on the bottom. My CDG screen is a cloth material but I'm not sure what the Protee is made of.

Picture quality wise, the Protee is a little brighter. Black level was good and about the same as the CDG. Sharpness is about the same. What really stood out was the fact that whites were much whiter than on the CDG screen. GSA and Bluerays looked good. Again, better whites put the Protee ahead of the CDG on overall image quality.

Bounce was also better. Most shots had about 2 ft of bounce. The dual layer made the screen heavier but not really a big deal since it appears to be more durable than the CDG. The screen was also very quiet, like the CDG. I'll update if things change.

Screen size: 8'X10'
Projector: Vivitek 1080P using zero zoom.

[TheGolfer]

Everyone knows the exaggerated rebound problem I had with the foresight textiline screeen.

Received my new PR-20 impact panel from westcoastnetting.com.

Positives:
* Zero rebound with balls > 160mph - they literally hit the screen and drop straight down
* Since its an impact panel its meant to take a beating - will let you know on durability but it does look like it will last
* Quite
* Price - on the lower end
* Great friendly service
* Purchased other golf netting from them and it was solid quality


Neutral:
* Sim Image quality not as strong compared to the plastic like textiline product from foresight but you won't worry about killing anyone with the rebound. For the sim its good enough just a little darker. I have a black carpet 15" behind. Will hang black weed prevention material from HD literaly right behind it to see if that helps. You see the material patterns in the image slightly. Again, for the sim good enough.

Areas of improvement:
* It was not sold as an HD screen nor tested for this purpose so I do not hold them responsible for this. I think when you try to get both qualities in a single screen its next to impossible especially trying to get a 1/1.5 gains screen.
* It's a strong impact panel with zero rebound, quite, and looks durable with an ok picture on the sim.
* HD movies are clearly not the same compared to the textiline material
* I watched another movie tonight and its liveable, but I may over the next 6 months order the high end cinema raw screen material from da-lite for 6 sq/foot that has relefective gains of 1/1.5. Sew grommets on the sides and when I want to watch it should be a quick hang with few connectors. This way get the best of both worlds - solid impact panel with zero rebound and a high quality cinema screen with a high quality reflective gain. Need to research some of the da-lite material since there are some that can optimize the 3D experience.

summary:
* excellent choice
* literally ball drops at speeds > 160mph literally right in front of impact panel
* great price
* picture good enough for sim and ok for HD (may look at seperate cinema screen but not required)

[goatbarn]

TheGolfer totally mirrors my opinion of this product.

Great for durability, noise, price ($90 for my screen), nice for simulated image. I will take hitting real balls with all clubs for a long time over a slightly better image but way more $$$ any day. Everyone I have over says the image looks great.

TheGolfer, I put blackout material behind my PR-20 screen and it made the image much better. Deeper blacks, and more vibrant colors. The fact that the screen is a tight mesh is always going to hurt the image quality, but I believe that's what also makes it such a good impact screen. Did you get the webbing and grommets around all sides?

[TheGolfer]

@goatbarn

i agree for the sim screen i would take decent image, zero rebound, durable, quite any day.

i have webbing all sides and grommets on left, right, and top.

they do have a seem if your screen is > 8ft tall but for me its perfect since my screen is 8ft so the seem is on the floor.

what kind of blackout did you use? i will do the same. do you have it literally right behind the PR-20 or a couple inches? my black carpet for this one is too far away i think ~ 15 inches.

after the last screen it feels great to hit the balls hard and the balls literally drop straight down after impact.

[goatbarn]

I just bought one of the many blackout curtains from ebay. 2 Panels, total of 104" x 96" or something. Just enough to cover my PR-20 screen.

I have them both on the same black iron pipe (my curtain track), so yes, the blackout material is right behind the PR-20.

I also sowed a pocket along the bottom of the blackout material, and put light chain inside, so that it stops my tee from flying underneath and keeps the blackout material nice and tight to the PR-20 for image quality. It's been great.

[jwright]

Came across this impact screen on ebay. Has seen or used this screen before?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/170-GOLF-Simulator-Impact-Screen-Material-86-x-150-projection-material-/140664651677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c044 3f9d

[Par2Pro]

Hey All,

Just a couple of quick notes:
1. I was able to order in a bulk supply of the HQ material, so I was able to lower the price:
http://www.par2pro.com/shop/product_...products_id=98

2. We now have the new M6 mesh screens in stock and available (after tonnes of testing):
http://www.par2pro.com/shop/product_...roducts_id=162


Sorry for being so brief, but I have to get back to changing diapers and doing laundry LOL! For those interested, we had a baby boy 6 lbs 11 oz and named him Maxwell. He had a golf ball in his hand within 4 hours of being born

[ZMax]

Congratulations on the baby boy!!!! That's awesome....

[bubba22]

Awesome Cory. Congratulations.

[psace]

Yes, congratulations are in order, Cory. Will you nickname him Maxifli?

[js1010]

jwright, I actually requested a sample of this stuff from them. Got it yesterday.

Its definitely gray and feels vinyl like - is pretty thick and seems strong but don't know how well it will hold up and if it would stretch and cause "pooching" ??? in the middle where it gets hit most. My guess is that this material would be somewhat loud at impact. Can's say about the picutre but my guess is it would be great seeing its a smooth surface and no light getting through and also this company mainly deals with home theater screens.


From what I have seen thus far and I have ordered samples from a lot of different places. Cory's HQ in my mind would yield a very good picture and be fairly low noise. In terms of strength and reliability, I would think the PR-20 stuff that thegolfer has or netttingmasters has similar stuff - are thick clothy weave material and ball drops pretty much straight down with very low noise. Picture is pretty good but not great - this is very durable material and my guess would last longer than HQ.

I have also seen a sample of Cory's new mesh material and that might also be a consideration and probably somewhere in between the HQ and the Pr-20. It it mesh so it has small holes therefore picutre will suffer a bit but I think would be a bit better than the PR-20 in picture quality but not as strong.

I will need to replace my CDG screen in the coming months and at this point would lean toward Cory's HQ or his new mesh - probably go with the HQ because of picture quality as this is important to me. I will also say that the CDG screen is a good screen, I am on my second and just want to try something else. Picture is very good but it will break down (for me about a year -10K balls hit)

Came across this impact screen on ebay. Has seen or used this screen before?
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/170-GOLF-Simulator-Impact-Screen-Material-86-x-150-projection-material-/140664651677?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c044 3f9d

[psace]

I can vouch for Cory's HQ material. Very nice picture even with blu-ray movies, it is almost as good as my electric elite screen. Can't see using anything else, myself.

[bubba22]

Cory is awesome as is his screen http://www.par2pro.com/

[Tommy2Ball]

When I started my sim project, I got permission from the war department because I stressed both the low cost of the project and the fact that the game room would be for movies and a golf simulator. I already had a very nice 12’x7’ projection screen (non-impact) and calculated that I had enough room for a good HD projector.

I got an Epson 8350 (1080 full HD resolution) and it is fabulous. I can see a huge difference between a standard DVD and a Blue Ray movie and have now bought many of my favorite movies on blue ray (which legitimately is not a cost of the sim project).

The only problem with this set up was that I had to put netting in front of the projection screen. As I quickly found out, netting in front of a screen sucks. As such, I had to rethink my plan of attack. Based on the feedback, I followed TheGolfer’s recommendation and got an Optima GT750E short throw projector. No, I didn’t return the Epson 8350, I added the Optima as a second projector just for the sim (and possibly the XBox).

Now, instead of having a net in front of my screen, I have an impact screen in front of my screen. I got samples of the PR-20 from Preston Hicks at West Coast Netting (westcoastnetting.com) and of the HQ material from Cory at Par2Pro. Both were very helpful and shipped the samples right away.

Because of the money I already had invested in the original non-impact screen and two projectors (not to mention the cost of the PX-5), I went with the PR-20 from West Coat Netting. For the most part, I echo TheGolfer’s extensive review (see his post under Impact Screen thread on 12/26/11).

For sim purposes and considering the resolution of the courses on GSA, the PR-20 is great. It is not nearly as tightly woven as Cory’s HQ material and would not be as good a screen for HD movies (but as I said, I already had a nice non-impact screen). The price of the PR-20 is also great as is Preston’s customer service at West Coast Netting. My screen was 104” high by 156” wide, and with web binding and grommets was less than $190. I also shipped Preston the black fabric I had for the background opposite the launch angle camera and West Coast Netting joined 2 sections of fabric, cut them to size and had them web bound with grommets for $20. Again, they have fabulous customer service.

If you’re planning to use your impact screen as the screen for your 1080 HD projector, Cory’s HQ material might be a better choice. If the screen is primarily for the sim, the PR-20 is great and is much, much cheaper than the HQ material.

If you’re wondering what my wife thinks about the 2 screens and 2 projectors, you missed the reference to the war department above.

[goatbarn]

I agree. I love my PR-20 screen. 2 solid seasons into it and it still looks like new.

One thing I'd stress is to try and make your screen grommets/holes symmetrical so that maybe once a you can flip it around horizontally or vertically to have the focal impact point moved around which should lengthen the life of the screen material and any impact indents that may show after a long time. Just a suggestion.

[jwright]

thanks all for the great info i will probably go with the screen from cory havn't heard of any negative comments. The PR-20 sounds like a great screen as well, I would probably be please with either. Hope to have everthing setup in the next month just finishing the addition added a 24 x 24 room to the house to double as a theatre/golf simulator room. I currently have a optishot but will probably upgrade to something with LA havn't put that by my war department yet.

[bubba22]

Good luck jwright. Let us know how it comes along.

[TheGolfer]

well i put up my new second screen and tried something different which i thought i would pass along. the second one us pr-20 from Preston @ westcoastnetting.com. see reviews - very pleased.

i have slotted angle iron on the sides and top with grommets on sides and top of screen. rather than using bungie cords i used zip ties on the this one. much better.

i have the PR-20 stretched very tight for better image and the zip ties are great at keeping it very tight - btw even when very tight there is no problem with bounce back with the pr-20. i was able to stretch the screen so that the grommet is literally right next to the angle iron. this makes the finish luck so much better than having the gap between with the bungies. also if you start the zip tie from back of screen grommet then front side angle iron then back to behind screen the zip tie attachment is hidden from view. all you see is the little piece of plastic from the grommet hole but since its next to the side its bairly visible.

i first tried the smaller 8 inch zip ties that are graded ~50 pound tensil strength. since i have the tension very tight within a week a few of them snapped. i then replaced them all with the longer 14" zip ties graded at 75 pound tensil strength. working great.

with the other screen and bungies i needed side and top flaps to fold over and hide the gap so it looks better. with this screen i was able to stretch it right to the edge and the zip ties there is no gap to cover. the only thing you see is the gold / bronze plated grommets. next screen i am going to see if i can special order black grommets then you wouldn't see anything but white screen then black wall with no gaps.

i have started covering the grommets with black permanent marker just to remove the glair. so far so good but next time I will ask if they have black grommets.

the only positive negative i can think with the zip ties is when i replace the screen i will just need to cut them and buy new ones where bungies you can reuse. they are very cheap though. when i had to cut down the smaller 8" 50 pound zip ties it was quick just going with a wire cutter. it does take a little longer to put them up but then again when i had bungies it was initially quick but spent a lot of time playing around with the tension so total time spent not sure if its actually longer or not.

[TheGolfer]

i know there are many do-it-your -selfers out there that made their own impact screen and home cinema screens. interested in hearing what people have found to be the BEST do it yourself material for HD HOME CINEMA screen material? thinking about having two screens, 1) excellent at receiving golf balls and good for sim image, and 2) second that is just used for HD cinmea movies.

I know i can buy the da-lite raw material and make a 8x14 screen but i can probably save a lot of money still. interested in feedback from anyone that made their own CINEMA HD movie - fabric, cost, and image quality.

thanks.

[archv6625]

Short Version:
With all of the variables, you are probably better off paying for a properly made screen. DIY screens are a tricky proposition. It all depends on how picky you are about the image. You could get some white canvas and paint it with screen paint and get a moderately good image. If you are looking for a unity gain screen, the material from most manufacturers is similar. if that's what you are looking for, it is better in my opinion to just buy the PVC based basic screen fabric sold my most manufacturers. Its going to be washable and smooth.

Long Version:

A problem of going the DIY route is waves in the screen. It is much harder than it sounds to get a screen that stays perfectly flat long term. You will easily see small waves in the screen on slow panning shots.

If you are truly concerned about image quality, you first need a totally light controlled room. Flat black Ceiling, very dark walls and carpet. No light falling directly on the screen. If you have that - combined with a reasonable projector - basically any unity gain screen will be just fine.

If you don't have such an ideal situation (and how many of us do) and you really care about image quality, I would recommend going with either a tensioned screen, retro-reflective screen, or a fixed screen on an appropriate frame anchored with snaps every couple inches. All 3 of those solutions will eliminate the waves in the image.

Tensioned screens have a string running through loops on the left and right sides of the screen connected to a heavy bar on the bottom of the screen. The loops redirect some of the downward pull of the bar laterally to pull the screen tight.

Retro-reflective screens generally have a glass beaded surface (I really like the Da-Lite High Power, and in fact own and use it). The High power can be wiped down - although many glass beaded screens cant. Retro-reflective means the surface reflects light back in the same direction it entered (think bike reflector), where a standard screen reflects light at an angle equal and opposite with respect to the surface normal (think mirror in an extreme case) Coatings on the standard screens help with the directivity so its not a perfect analogy but good enough for this thought experiment. Since light is sent back at the same angle it came in, small waves are hidden because no shadows are cast by light being reflected at an angle different than the angle of the light near it.
Retro-reflective screens tend to be high gain and have small viewing angles, so they are best when the projector is mounted as close to the viewers eye as possible. As little as 15-20 degrees off axis and the gain could already be below 1, but you will retain the other benefits of the screen. With a retro-reflective screen, its essentially required that the wall opposite the screen is a dark color and non-reflective or else you will lose contrast.

Fixed is self explanatory - its held tightly enough on the frame to not have wrinkles.

The next thing to consider is color - white, gray or silver. Silver will often have very high gain and occasionally hot spotting. Gray is best used where light control is minimal to enhance apparent contrast. White is fairly standard.

Also, having a substantial black border (3-4 inches wide) around the screen will greatly enhance the perceived contrast.

With all of that said, if you are truly concerned about image quality (and you seem to be if you want to go with 2 screens) you would be best served by purchasing an appropriate screen. You don't need to spend $3000 on a screen, but in the sizes you are looking for, you'll probably be over $1K. If you'd be willing to accept a more "normal" sized screen - say 106"-133", you could probably find a suitable screen in the $500 range.

Hope that helps.

[TheGolfer]

@Archv6625

Greatly appreciate the insight and feedback. Very helpful. I am going to start researching affordable options for the second screen and you gave me a lot of places to start.

Thanks again!

Kind Regards,

[bubba22]

bcgs here is the thread with many posts on impact screens. Read through this post as there are many suggestions. As well look at http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...rround-netting , http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...alls-an-option , http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...ight-retention , http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...r-basement-Sim , http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...pic-of-screens... , http://forum.ottawagolf.com/showthre...n-Cordura-1000

A lot of info here just do a search.

[12tree]

I just ran across this on eBay. Anyone ever use it? They also claim to have clips that can be used to hang a screen instead of grommets. Seems interesting but without any feedback online could be risky. Thanks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140664651677...#ht_2869wt_689

[12tree]

I'm checking with 5 eBay members that purchased the material. I will post what they say. Too bad they did not do reviews on eBay. Also too bad I can only message 5 people per day on eBay. Oh well it's a start.

[TheGolfer]

I just ran across this on eBay. Anyone ever use it? They also claim to have clips that can be used to hang a screen instead of grommets. Seems interesting but without any feedback online could be risky. Thanks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140664651677...#ht_2869wt_689

looks very similar to the urethane carpet padding that was used under one of my putting greens. not the thick squishy kind of padding but a solid urethane pad. i know they come in different weights and colors. home depot has one below. not sure if its the same material but just looked so similar...

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

i have some left over material but not big enough to hang up and hit balls into.

[12tree]

Thus far I have heard that the screen has good resolution, but the bounceback is significant. One customer was pretty upset about the amount of bounceback using foam balls. Overall, this seems like a decent projector solution, but not a true simulator screen unless you are willing to get hit in the head with foam balls. All 5 ebay buyers said they liked the picture but are not using real balls with hit because of the bounce back. I was hopeful, but then again the price was probably too good to be true. Apparently, the clips are pretty good though so perhaps they are worth a look. They keep things tight and are adjustable.

[Santiago]

Foresight just came with a cheaper hitting screen alternative. It was used at the Fujikura booth for the Orlando PGA Show. Here is a pic with some Long Drivers hitting into it, they where hitting it over 400yds, and the ball just died there. The net was not as tight as the one in the Foresight booth, and pic was not as good but still very decent. It is a cheaper alternative tough, and it had vitually no bounce back.

[goatbarn]

Just a friendly reminder, when ordering from West Coast Netting, use discount cod PGA2012 for 10% off your order! Love internet searches.