Chipping Yips

[BC MIST]

Many golfers, particularly older ones, suffer from the chipping yips to some extent, where the right hand seemingly flips the club head at the ball, causing fat/thin shots and occasionally, a double hit. An interesting solutions to the problem come from James Lepp, a former Canadian Tour player, NCAA champion and provincial amateur champion and can be found at the following:
http://www.youtube.com/kikkorgolf#p/a/u/0/WhJ6ZB8koIo
http://www.youtube.com/kikkorgolf#p/a/u/1/zujdajT7748
http://www.youtube.com/kikkorgolf#p/a/u/2/WJBZ2-l7OM

Another solution comes from the use of a claw grip when chipping. Many golfers are using this grip for their putting as it keeps the right wrist from flipping coming through impact. Using the claw for chipping eliminates the flip/yip coming through and may be worth a try for those who are struggling with this part of their game.
.

[eyeping]

Is that swing legal ??

[mpare]

This is very interesting and innovative, Lyle. However, is it legal? As I understand it, a ball must be fairly struck for it to constitute a legal stroke. It cannot be pushed, scraped or spooned (Rule 14-1).

Years ago, I purchased a book entitled Scrambling Golf - How to Get Out of Trouble and Into the Cup by George Pepper. The book is a work of shot-making genius. One of the shots that he discussed was what he termed The Slap Shot, in which the club is held by the left hand. Rather than swing the club in the conventional fashion, the shaft is then struck with the right hand, which in turn propels the golf ball some distance - a useful little shot when working in tight quarters. There was only one problem as he admits. The USGA ruled it illegal (see: Ruling 14 - 1/4). In its ruling, the USGA said:

"In order to strike the ball fairly, it must be swung at with the clubhead. If the ball is moved by any other method, it has been pushed, scraped or spooned.

If a ball is fairly struck at, there is only momentary contact between the clubhead and the ball or whatever intervenes between the clubhead and the ball."

My question is: "Does Lepp's method allow "only momentary contact between the clubhead and the ball" or is the contact of longer duration sufficient to breach rule 14-1?

Many years ago I experimented with a similar shot except that I held the club in a conventional fashion and placed the club a couple of inches behind the ball. I then pulled the club through the ball with similar effect to what Mr. Lepp is now doing. My club pro told me that the stroke would be deemed illegal so I stopped experimenting. That said, it was very effective in certain circumstances.

[mpare]

Okay rules officials, what's the answer to my question? Tick, tock ...

[gbower]

To me there is nothing wrong with the way he is playing this shot. When first described to me some time ago I thought that he was putting the club directly behind the ball and dragging it but if you watch the video the club is not near the ball and he is making a stroke at it. I know players that will only take a couple of inch back swing on some very short chip shots and have a long follow through with it. I see nothing wrong with what James is doing here. I'm sure Lyle will chime in as I think he took it to a higher level for an explanation.

[BC MIST]

This is very interesting and innovative, Lyle. However, is it legal? As I understand it, a ball must be fairly struck for it to constitute a legal stroke. It cannot be pushed, scraped or spooned (Rule 14-1).

When I saw Jame's method posted on TGN I questioned the "legality" of the stroke for a rules point of view. In an exchange of emails James assured me that he had been in touch with Canadian Tour rules officials and the same from the USGA, and they both indicated that the stroke was conforming.

I posted this question on The Leith Society in March and while all the RO's were not in agreement, the vast majority were. Keep in mind that: (1) "A scrape is where the clubhead speed is accelerated on contact with the ball so that clubhead remains in contact with the ball for a perceptible length of time," and (2) "A push is when the clubhead speed on contact with the ball is so slow there is no perceptible rebound by the ball off the club." James suggested stroke is neither of the two. There is nothing wrong with NOT taking a backswing and scraping the club along the ground or a putter on the putting green, is not the kind of scraping described above. The stroke is legal.

I have tried Jame's method AND chipping with a claw grip, and the latter is much better.

[mpare]

Thanks for the responses, Lyle and Gerry. I'd still like to see a super slow motion video of what happens to the ball when the club makes contact with it on a short chip using this method. My instincts (which could be wrong) tell me that on a short shot the ball and clubface will remain in contact longer than if struck with a conventional stroke. If that were the case, then would that make any difference to the ruling?

[LobWedge]

Thanks for the responses, Lyle and Gerry. I'd still like to see a super slow motion video of what happens to the ball when the club makes contact with it on a short chip using this method. My instincts (which could be wrong) tell me that on a short shot the ball and clubface will remain in contact longer than if struck with a conventional stroke. If that were the case, then would that make any difference to the ruling?

Mike, I was on the fence with this until I took a closer look at it. If you take in to account that "scraping" is basically a dragging motion where the ball would be in contact with the club face for an inordinate length of time, Mr. Lepp's stroke, while certainly unorthodox, would satisfy the requirements of a stroke in my mind.

He's creating enough speed and momentum to compress the ball enough to make it rebound off the club face at a greater velocity than the club head that's striking it. That's enough to constitute "fairly struck at" in my book.

[Steel]

Hands well in front, weight over the left side (for right handers), lock the wrist's, rotate the shoulders, thats mine in a nutshell

[Wknd_Warrior]

I feel it violates the spirit of the game. You're supposed to swing at the ball, not slide something along the ground into the ball. To take this a bit further, we could design special clubs with wheels on them for this shot, or at least, in all seriousness, a big flat flange to slide along the ground. Not golf IMO.

[BC MIST]

I feel it violates the spirit of the game. You're supposed to swing at the ball, not slide something along the ground into the ball. To take this a bit further, we could design special clubs with wheels on them for this shot, or at least, in all seriousness, a big flat flange to slide along the ground. Not golf IMO.

"A stroke is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball..." As James stroke does just that, how does it violate either the rule or the non existent "spirit?"

Rule 4 covers clubs.

[rezadue]

I am curious if anyone has actually tried this? If you have, did it work for you out of the rough too?
I can only see this working well from tight lies.

[John]

I tried it a few times last year at the range and it's actually a very easy shot to pull off from 10 yards and in. Those 60 yard or so pitches he's hitting seemed to be very difficult. It's hard to fight the urge to try and help the ball up with your right hand but once you get comfortable its actually a pretty useful shot.

[Wknd_Warrior]

"A stroke is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball..." As James stroke does just that, how does it violate either the rule or the non existent "spirit?"

Rule 4 covers clubs.

I very clearly never stated it violates any rule. Do I really have to explain what "the spirit of the game" means? I think you know exacly what I mean.


I shudder at the thought of equipment manufacturers coming out with a new "slide wedge". I don't care what the rules say, from a clean lie in the fairway I expect the creators of the game intended us to "swing" a club, not drag it across the ground.

[justsomeguy]

I feel it violates the spirit of the game. You're supposed to swing at the ball, not slide something along the ground into the ball.

... so a putting stroke violates the spirit of the game??? I don't think so.

[Wknd_Warrior]

you slide your putter along the ground?

[justsomeguy]

you slide your putter along the ground?

I certainly don't swing at the ball - I slide my putter just above the ground like everybody else. Many golfers use a putting stroke with a wedge in exactly the same way. Why do you think contact with the ground changes everything.

[Wknd_Warrior]

Well, I think "swing" applies to the putter, but that's just my opinion. Anyhow, there's a big difference, watch the video we are discussing.

I'm not saying I'd never slide a club along the ground if the situation demanded, and now that I know it doesn't violate the rules that's great and all, but it's not golf to me, I'm just saying...

For the record I don't like belly putters either, I don't think the rules should allow one to moor the end of the club so it hinges easily.