Sand filled divots

[larry]

For us Florida bound folks:

My ball comes to rest in a sand filled divot. Can I ground my club in the sand behind the ball? It would seem that this would push down the sand behind the ball and make for an easier shot. Not that any of us would do this on purpose of course. Thanks.

[Gary Hill]

The prohibition against touching the ground before making a stroke ("grounding the club") applies only in a hazard.

1. ... before making a stroke at a ball which is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard)... the player shall not: ...
...b.Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with a club or otherwise ...

2. The player shall not improve or allow to be improved the position or lie of his ball...
[snip] ...by removing or pressing down sand...[snip]

3. The club may be grounded only lightly and shall not be pressed on the ground.

A club is considered "grounded" when the ground (or sand or grass, etc.) is compressed to the point where it will support the weight of the club.

FYI - An incident occurred a couple years ago in a Tour Event (can't recall the event) where Greg Norman accused Vijay Singh of pressing down pine needles behind his ball. The officials were called and apparently Greg and V.J. almost came to blows. Apparently they are still not speaking.

Question: Is the reverse true? eg. Can you ground your club if your ball is resting on grass growing within the hazard?

[Kilroy]

Personally, I agree with Jack Nicholas when he argues that a sand filled divot should be ruled ground under repair. However I'd cary it farther and include all divots.

Jack is right. the ground is under repair until the grass grows back. Forcing a player to play a mini bunker in the middle of the fairway is just stupid. I am sure Payne would agree, as one of these cost him big afew years ago.

I also always felt that the spike mark rule should be changed, but then we all started wearing soft spikes, so the problem is gone and the point is pretty much moot.

[Gary Hill]

Yeah, and we should cut down all the trees, and remove all the brush, and carpet the greens, and get rid of the water, and only play when the wind doesn't blow, and straighten out all the doglegs, and make the hole bigger, and .........

[Kilroy]

Now come on Gary, do you really disagree that when filling in divots with sand they are "repairing" the ground? Why is it nessesary to draw a circle around it?

Speaking of painted GUR
At the Eagle Creek Classic the last few years I have seen the paint around GUR. Most of these areas were just bare hard pan, where no effort was being made to repair the turf. If they get relief from that, why can't we get relief from ground that is truly being repaired?

If I play that same course one week later, after the rain has washed the markings away, I must play the ball down. Nobody is going to mark these areas on a day to day basis.
Now that is unfair. :crying

Why can't we judge for ourselves what reasonably constitutes GUR? Frankly I thought the commity was way more generous in these markings than I would have expected. I think the average group of players would be less accomodating in allowing relief.

[Gary Hill]

Rule 25 is abnormal ground conditions.

Would you like to wager on trying to find someone at the U.S.G.A or the R.C.G.A. who would agree that a divot on a golf course is an ABNORMAL ground condition.

Yes, white lines are sometimes painted off for true abnormal ground conditions. A heavy rain might wash-out a part of the fairway between rounds of a competition. No golf course (other than Augusta National ) has the money or resources to fix catastrophic damage between rounds.

I personally go out before Ottawa Zone Tournaments and mark areas as ground under repair.

Anytime a player is in doubt as to whether an area should have been marked as ground under repair (GUR), he may call for an official or if an official is not readily available, he may invoke Rule 3-3 (Doubt as to Procedure) and play TWO BALLS. One played as it lies and the other from where the player thinks relief should be granted. The matter will then be decided after the round. What could be more fair!!! ( It pays to know the Rules )

If the players themselves were allowed to determine what was or was not GUR, you can imagine the "give em an inch and they will take a mile" that would go on. It wouldn't make any sense for Tiger Woods to be rolling his ball around in the fairway because the lie was not to his liking.

Remember, in this forum, I am giving the "official" point of view as it relates to a COMPETITION.

However, my personal view may be different with respect to a weekend player taking a few "liberties" with the Rules for the sake of an enjoyable day.

But then I would have to change hats!!!!

[Kilroy]

Hehehe

See what you started Larry! Now I gotta order more hats!