Helloooooo??????

[NoBack]

Hey Gary.... (sorry if I waked you!!! )

During saturday's round there were 2 balls in the trap very close to each other's and one had to be marked. Then the sand raked and the ball placed back in the sand. I know this is allowed but to what extent?

What would happen if the ball that was marked was deeper into the sand? You know, one of those fried egg kinda lies. Does he still to get to place it on top or does he have to make it as close to the condition it was in?

[Gary Hill]

Two Rules are in effect here.

Rule 22 covers why the ball was entitled to be lifted:

It says that any player may a. Lift his ball if he considers that the ball might assist any other player or b. Have any other ball lifted if he considers that the ball might interfere with his play or assist the play of any other player ...

Rule 20-3b(iii) covers the replacement of a ball in a bunker.

In a bunker, the original lie shall be recreated as nearly as possible and the ball shall be placed in that lie.

Therefore, if the ball was ball was buried, he must bury it again to the satisfaction of both players.


Anybody know what would happen if the incident happened in the fairway and the first player's shot obliterated the second player's lie?

[Kilroy]

My guess would be that he could place as near as possible to the original position, without interference from the new divot.

[Gary Hill]

Correctomundo!!!

In a bunker, the lie is recreated because it CAN be.

When not in a bunker, it is impossible to recreate the original lie so: Rule 20-3b(i.) except in a hazard, the ball shall be placed in the nearest lie most similar to the original lie which is not more than one club-length from the original lie, not nearer the hole and not in a hazard.

And the final circumstance: Rule 20-3b(ii). in a water hazard, the ball shall be placed in accordance with Clause (i) above, except that the ball must be placed in the water hazard.

[4jag]

If the lie is going to be re-created anyway why did the player closer to the hole play his bunker shot first on Sat.? As it was they still spent 5 minutes looking for the second player's (was it Duffy?) ball mark anyway (and I'm not sure they ever found it)before re-creating his lie after the first player shot. Seems to me they should have just played in proper order.

[Gary Hill]

I didn't see the incident, but from your description, the proper procedure was not followed. (Duh! PGA Tour again)

The proper procedure should have been for the player nearer the hole to mark his ball. Then re-mark as many club-lengths away as will insure his ball-marker will not be lost; using a point of reference such as a tree or gallery control stake. (Exactly the same procedure as repeatedly re-marking one or more putterhead-lengths on the putting green until you are out of your fellow-competitor's line of putt.)

The player who is away would play; then the other player would replace his ball (using the re-marking procedure backwards) after re-creating the lie.

FYI - The R.C.G.A. also made an error in this procedure on their "RULES OF GOLF" video. https://www.rcga.org/order-about.htm

Because of time and monetary constraints, they decided to leave the error as an "Easter Egg" for those pedantic enough to catch it.

Anybody want to guess who caught it?

[bigeasy6]

Hey Gary

Sounds like your unhappy with the PGA's efforts to play the sport of golf by its intended rules. What would be your advice to them if you knew that your suggestion would be taken seriously? I've been to a variety of tour events and it's always the same situation: whenever a rules official is required there never seems to be one around or it takes them 5-10 minutes to show up.

Question: I'm playing my 3rd shot out of a greenside bunker and my fellow players ball is laying inches from the hole. He decides not to mark it, possibly in an attemp to intimidate me. I blast out of the sand and my ball lands and then hits his ball right off the green. My ball ends up in the hole and I marked myself down as having a 3 on the hole. Was this correct and what should my partner have done if following the correct procedure?

[spidey]

I know Gary will be much more detailed in his response, but I am 100% sure that if you ask your opponent to mark his ball, he does NOT have the option of not marking. He MUST mark.

[Gary Hill]

spidey is 150% correct on this one !!!!!!

ANY player may have ANY ball lifted if he considers that the ball might interfere with his play OR assist the play of another player.

That means ANY player, not just the players whose ball are players involved.

If I would have been in the group, I would have FORCED the player near the hole to mark his ball as it was clearly in a position to assist you.

Also, players purposely not marking balls in a position to assist another player would be subect to disqualification.

And YES, I am unhappy with the PGA Tour officials "efforts", or more specifically, their lack of effort.

[spidey]

I agree with Gary on tour officials, they're a bunch of marshmallows. I think the telecasts are avoiding close-ups of ball lies and players touching their balls etc, because the viewers are catching the players more than the officials are, thereby showing the pathetic job by officials.

AND, I'm pretty dismayed at tour players. You'd suspect that since it's their job, that they'd know the rules, or at least the main body of rules.

I'm sure I saw last weekend, on the Canadian Tour... a player hit into a lateral hazard, and drop his ball using only one club-length relief. Although he did take relief and count the penalty stroke, you'd think this one is a common enough one that he'd know by now.

26 1-c

As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole.