Disappointing Ovechkin.

[mberube]

This is another example why IMO Sid is a better player. Ovy has proved again that in big games he is just not the franchise player you need on your team to get the job done. We will be able to compare adequately this next series since both will have faced the same team.

Ovy was continuously doing the same move over and over and got trapped. He did not elevate his game to make his team better.

What do you think?

[SGH]

I think 5 goals (should have been 6) in seven games is elevating your game just fine. Semin did nothing, and others failed to elevate their games to even their regular season form. Makes it tough for a star player when he feels a need to do it on his own. That being said, Montreal played unbelievably well, and stuck to a game plan that may have exposed Ovie's weaknesses.

I don't think this will serve much in the way of settling the OV/Sid debate, but it does add fuel to the fire, that's for sure. Crosby got a lot of help from his team to get by Ottawa, and I think Pittsburg is a much better constructed team than Washington (easy to say that now, of course).

That being said, I hope Montreal carries on as a giant killer and knocks off the Pens in 5. A Habs/Bruins conference final would be incredible.

[nokids]

This is another example why IMO Sid is a better player. Ovy has proved again that in big games he is just not the franchise player you need on your team to get the job done. We will be able to compare adequately this next series since both will have faced the same team.

Ovy was continuously doing the same move over and over and got trapped. He did not elevate his game to make his team better.

What do you think?

where was Sidney Crosby in last year's finals? and the finals before that? those are big games no? does he suck because he played like crap vs the Wings?

OV scored the game tying goal that was disallowed and assisted on the other legit goal. he worked his butt off for that win. his team failed.

[mberube]

5 goals is good but he was not what we would expect from a 50+ goal scorer. Is he good, yes, is he entertaining and dangerous, yes, but he was not a difference maker as he should especially in the first round or two. When you get to the final 4 or 2 then the depth is what makes the difference.

IMO the caps have more talent then the Pens. More punch on the attack. I agree that it's a team game especially in the post season but Crosby with 14 points in 6 games was a far superior performance. I will give credit to the Habs though. They did shut Ovy down and that is why I’m anxious to see how Sid will do against the same D.

[nokids]

5 goals is good but he was not what we would expect from a 50+ goal scorer. When you get to the final 4 or 2 then the depth is what makes the difference.

so you're saying the role of a superstar is to pad their stats in the first 2 or 3 rounds, and when the competition becomes hard then it's ok for them to just disappear and let other players step up? Jeebus.

[mberube]

where was Sidney Crosby in last year's finals? and the finals before that?

Circling the ice with the cup over his head.

If you know hockey you should know that when you get to the final 4 or 2 teams the superstars are highly checked and it’s the depth lines that make the difference. Don’t forget that at the end last year the Pens were playing the best defensive team in the league for the past 2 to 4 years. It’s normal that the best players on the ice have no room.

You are comparing a highly offensive team (Caps) against the 16th seed in the playoffs to a cup final. Be realistic a bit. The Caps hade 100+ goals over the Habs and the habs were not even supposed to make the post season.

[nokids]

If you know hockey you should know that when you get to the final 4 or 2 teams the superstars are highly checked and it’s the depth lines that make the difference.

Do you have any facts to back this up? Any at all?

[mberube]

Do you have any facts to back this up? Any at all?

Look it up if you want. Who scored every goal and every assists in the final matchup for the past 5 years? And then compare that to the top scores of both teams.

Depth is what makes a good team. You should know that, look the Detroit. When your third and forth line scores goals, you win big games because your best lines are usually shut down.

Question since this is a debate about Sid and Ovy, what has Ovy accomplished in his career other then regular season accomplishments?

[nokids]

Every time OV's team loses you are here to bash him, and say Sid > OV. Are you trying to convince other people or yourself?

Crosby had 0 goals, 0 assists in game 6 vs the Sens and was a -2. Yet the Penguins win. If you know hockey you should know its a Team sport. No way can you blame OV for his team's failure. He did his part, 10 pts in 7 games.

Green and Semin should be traded, the Caps were disorganized on their own end, they lost the special teams battle, 1 for 33 on the PP, they were outcoached, and you turn all of this on OV. ?

[jeffc]

At the end of the day its all about winning. So far Crosby has proved he is a winner. A World Junior Championship, Olympic Gold Medallist, Stanley Cup Champion. Ovie, has won none of those. Ovie will win a cup one day, though it won't be this year. Crosby will win several more.

[jeffc]

Every time OV's team loses you are here to bash him, and say Sid > OV. Are you trying to convince other people or yourself?

Crosby had 0 goals, 0 assists in game 6 vs the Sens and was a -2. Yet the Penguins win. If you know hockey you should know its a Team sport. No way can you blame OV for his team's failure. He did his part, 10 pts in 7 games.

Green and Semin should be traded, the Caps were disorganized on their own end, they lost the special teams battle, 1 for 33 on the PP, they were outcoached, and you turn all of this on OV. ?

sure, trade Green, a Norris trophy candidate and the likely winner this year. Nice move.

[nokids]

Look it up if you want. Who scored every goal and every assists in the final matchup for the past 5 years? And then compare that to the top scores of both teams.

I'm not going to do your homework for you. You stated something without any facts. Please cite where you got this idea that 3rd and 4th lines decide stanley cup finals because the top lines are shut down. lol.

Depth is what makes a good team. You should know that, look the Detroit. When your third and forth line scores goals, you win big games because your best lines are usually shut down.

Isn't that true for any team?

Question since this is a debate about Sid and Ovy, what has Ovy accomplished in his career other then regular season accomplishments?[/QUOTE]

OV can't accomplish anything if his team doesn't perform well. Ever heard of Ray Bourque?

[mberube]

Every time OV's team loses you are here to bash him, and say Sid > OV. Are you trying to convince other people or yourself?

Crosby had 0 goals, 0 assists in game 6 vs the Sens and was a -2. Yet the Penguins win. If you know hockey you should know its a Team sport. No way can you blame OV for his team's failure. He did his part, 10 pts in 7 games.

Green and Semin should be traded, the Caps were disorganized on their own end, they lost the special teams battle, 1 for 33 on the PP, they were outcoached, and you turn all of this on OV. ?

That’s your opinion and I respect that.

BTW, I like Ovy. I picked him in my regular season pool, witch I won and in my post season pool and by the looks of it I will lose unless Chicago wins the finals.

[nokids]

sure, trade Green, a Norris trophy candidate and the likely winner this year. Nice move.

what good are all those goals and assists during the regular season if you can't step it up in the playoffs? I'll take Hal Gill over Mike Green for any cup run. Green needs a heart transplant.

[nokids]

That’s your opinion and I respect that.

BTW, I like Ovy. I picked him in my regular season pool, witch I won and in my post season pool and by the looks of it I will lose unless Chicago wins the finals.

And here's my point. Ovechkin was the capitals' best player in every game except that one game where backstrom went off. So to come down hard on OV doesn't make any sense. He's on a team that doesn't have heart. He himself does have plenty of heart. Sure he tried the same dumb move every time and was blocked, but he did the same thing against pittsburgh last year and his persistence paid off with some huge goals. give credit to that freak Gill for outsmarting OV. and dont forget halak. he was sensational. i don't think it's fair to say OV's a choker or loser. i give him a 'pass' for his performance this playoffs. i respect your opinion to give him a 'fail'. i just disagree.

[mberube]

And here's my point. Ovechkin was the capitals' best player in every game except that one game where backstrom went off. So to come down hard on OV doesn't make any sense. He's on a team that doesn't have heart. He himself does have plenty of heart. Sure he tried the same dumb move every time and was blocked, but he did the same thing against pittsburgh last year and his persistence paid off with some huge goals. give credit to that freak Gill for outsmarting OV. and dont forget halak. he was sensational. i don't think it's fair to say OV's a choker or loser. i give him a 'pass' for his performance this playoffs. i respect your opinion to give him a 'fail'. i just disagree.

OK let's make something clear, I never said he was a loser. I watched him in every game and I acknowledge that the effort was there. He tried all he could yesterday with lots of effort but he does not step up his game to the next level like Sid does IMO. Full credit to Gill, Georges and Halak. I was one of the only fan on this forum that said we should respect Gill when the Habs signed him. He was the reason the Pens shut Ovy down last year. Everyone laughed but look at him now…

Heck I picked the Caps to win in 5 and took 6 Caps players in my pool and the Sens in 6 over the Pens.

The fact is that Ovy and Sid will always be compared just like Gretz and Mario. Ovy is entertaining but Sid is the kid that has it all IMO.

[mberube]

On a personal note, how low class is this move?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyOA7SRPwxU

[nokids]

I don't agree OV and Sid should be compared. All you can do is compare their stats. One is a center the other a powerforward. Can you compare Brett Hull and Steve Yzerman? Barkely vs Jordan? Jim Brown vs Jerry Rice? Two different things.

[goochy]

I think Washington underperformed but I think it is harsh to say Ovechkin was disappointing. He did his share and more I would suggest.

I am delighted the Habs won (my wife is a Montrealer so my house is happy for at least a little longer) but I think they won because they battled amazingly well, were fantastically well coached and had a goalie who was simply on fire.

I would rather emphasis the positives of Montreal's achievement than try to lay the blame of defeat on the shoulders of someone who really probably doesn't deserve it (this time)

[nokids]

At the end of the day its all about winning. So far Crosby has proved he is a winner. A World Junior Championship, Olympic Gold Medallist, Stanley Cup Champion. Ovie, has won none of those. Ovie will win a cup one day, though it won't be this year. Crosby will win several more.

so far Crosby has proved he's played on better teams than OV

Canada > Russia
Penguins > Crappytools

[sillywilly]

i was waiting for this thread lol.

they ran into a hot goalie, a team that played out of their mind. not ov's fault. semin had 44 shots... no goals. i'm sure if he had scored on 7 of them, and OV picked up the assists... all the Ov haters would be talking about how he only had 5 goals.

[mberube]

I don't agree OV and Sid should be compared. All you can do is compare their stats. One is a center the other a powerforward. Can you compare Brett Hull and Steve Yzerman? Barkely vs Jordan? Jim Brown vs Jerry Rice? Two different things.

You are maybe right but it’s a fact of this NHL era. They are compared every year, every post season, every tournament and that will not change.

[Paulio]

I am not an O.V. hater, but, as of right now - there is not much to compare as far as accomplishments go between Sid and Alex. Right now, Crosby has done much more. Is he a better player? Tough to call. If he wins another cup, and possibly the MVP this year, than he probably is.

[sillywilly]

sedin is this years mvp

[jonf]

just to clarify, statistically, 5 goals in 7 games is exactly what you should expect from a 50 goal scorer who missed ten games.

[Paulio]

sedin is this years mvp

Possibly. He certainly has a good shot. But, I would argue that Sid has a better chance than Ovie. Backstrom helped Ovie's stats out, Sid did not have much help. That being said, it probably will go to brother Henrik.

[mberube]

I'm not going to do your homework for you. You stated something without any facts. Please cite where you got this idea that 3rd and 4th lines decide stanley cup finals because the top lines are shut down. lol.

These are the scoring stats of the final 7 games last year.

Recap:
E.MALKIN 8 points
M.TALBOT 7 points
H.ZETTERBERG 6 points
K.LETANG 5 points
M.HOSSA 4 points
R.FEDOTENKO 4 points
J.FRANZEN 4 points
B.RAFALSKI 4 points
S.CROSBY 3 points
J.HUDLER 3 points
J.STAAL 3 points
J.ERICSSON 3 points
T.KENNEDY 3 points
N.LIDSTROM 3P
STUART 3P
J.ABDELKADER (2)
V.FILPPULA 2
S.GONCHAR 2
N.KRONWALL 2
V.LEINO 2
D.HELM (2P)
T.HOLMSTROM(2P)
R.SCUDERI (2
P.DATSYUK (2P)
D.CLEARY 1
K.DRAPER 1
B.GUERIN 1P
M.EATON 1P
C.KUNITZ 1p
M.SAMUELSSON
C.KUNITZ

[nokids]

this is 1 series we're looking at. i think we need to look at least 10 years back to make a judgement. the way the stats break down, it appears that 1st and 2nd liners do contribute as much as 3rd and 4th liners. it's not like 1st and 2nd line gets shut down and the difference in the game is the 3rd and 4th line. talbot had a great series. i dont think it's indicative of a larger trend.

i bolded the 1st and 2nd liner names.


E.MALKIN 8 points
M.TALBOT 7 points
H.ZETTERBERG 6 points
K.LETANG 5 points
M.HOSSA 4 points
R.FEDOTENKO 4 points
J.FRANZEN 4 points
B.RAFALSKI 4 points
S.CROSBY 3 points
J.HUDLER 3 points
J.STAAL 3 points
J.ERICSSON 3 points
T.KENNEDY 3 points
N.LIDSTROM 3P
STUART 3P
J.ABDELKADER (2)
V.FILPPULA 2
S.GONCHAR 2
N.KRONWALL 2
V.LEINO 2
D.HELM (2P)
T.HOLMSTROM(2P)
R.SCUDERI (2
P.DATSYUK (2P)
D.CLEARY 1
K.DRAPER 1
B.GUERIN 1P
M.EATON 1P
C.KUNITZ 1p
M.SAMUELSSON

[Hacker]

On a personal note, how low class is this move?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyOA7SRPwxU

Sorry Mike, you're wrong here.......if you want to point fingers on this one you have to point them at Montreal.

Ovies's pre-game ritual is to be the last guy off the ice and to sprint to the gate and stop like that. Montreal knew this yet decided to put the kids out there early anyway.

Hockey Players are creatures of habit and they are certainly not going to change things up in the play-offs.

Besides, don't you think that kid was thrilled to be able to go to school the next day and say that he got snowed by one of the best hockey players on the planet?

[Hacker]

My take on this is simple.....the vast majority of Washington's top end talent and perhaps more importantly, their Leadership guys, are European and for whatever reason, the Euro's don't seem to have the same desire to win Lord Stanley's cup as North Americans do.

I'm not anti-European or anything like that, but you never hear a Russian about how they dreamed of winning the Stanley cup as kids. The one exception to this could be Swedes, the Swedes love their hockey and are slowly coming to see the NHL as the pinnacle of the sport, but I believe that when they are playing road hockey it is still for the World Championship or Olympic Gold.

I think this is a major factor as to why teams with high-end European talent fail come play-off time.

Maybe Vancouver can prove me wrong this year.