Stupid rule...

[The Shtick]

I just got to get this one off my mind....

What really sucks is when you hit a ball out of bounds and one of your competitors finds your ball. During the "B" Class City & District this happened to someone in the group ahead of me. One player hit a ball off the tee and it went out of bounds. He hit a provisional (down the middle-great shot) and he was on his merry way. Then, one of his competitors found the ball out of bounds and he had to come back to the tee to play the original ball- since it was found. Needless to say, his next shot was far from spectactular.

As for myself, I hit two balls OB during the two day event and declared a lost ball both times since both my provisional shots were in good shape.

What sucks most of all is the fact that you DON'T want to find that $5 golf ball you just hit OB!!

Wazzup with that???

[NoBack]

??????????????

You must mean a hazard or in the trees (lost ball). Cuz if OB, you dont have the choice, you MUST hit again.

[Kilroy]

If you find your ball and it is out of bounds, the provisional is in play. There is no need to return to the tee unless the ball you find is in bounds, but unplayable, and then you have all the options for an unplayable lie.

[mkemila]

If you find your ball and it is out of bounds, the provisional is in play. There is no need to return to the tee unless the ball you find is in bounds, but unplayable, and then you have all the options for an unplayable lie.

That is what confused me....if you hit a provisional ball why return to the tee....to hit a provisional provisional?

[Kilroy]

You hit a provisional when your ball may be lost OR out of bounds (cannot be both)

IF OB - play the provisional

IF lost - play the provisional

IF found in bounds, the provisional is to be abandoned. If your found ball is unplayable, you can, with a penalty, drop within 2 clublengths no closer to the hole, go back as far as you like on a line from the flag through the ball's position, or return to the place where you hit from (in this case the tee) In this case you cannot play the provisional.

There is nothing in the rules regarding finding a ball that is OB.

[Gary Hill]

As for myself, I hit two balls OB during the two day event and declared a lost ball both times since both my provisional shots were in good shape.

You cannot declare a ball lost.

[The Shtick]

If you find your ball and it is out of bounds, the provisional is in play. There is no need to return to the tee unless the ball you find is in bounds, but unplayable, and then you have all the options for an unplayable lie.

It was an unplayable lie for the person.... best option was to go back to the tee... To be more accurate, it was at Mont Cascades on hole #11. There is also a drop area which was not in play..... The OVGA had a spotter there and that was the ruling.

[The Shtick]

You cannot declare a ball lost.

Should I declare it unplayable since I can't find it??

[Gary Hill]

A ball is lost if and only if:

1. It is not found within 5 minutes.
2. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.
3. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place.

After hitting a nice provisional, you cannot "DECLARE" that the original is lost.

If the original ball is found before any of the 3 statements above are true, you MUST abandon the provisional ball.

[The Shtick]

A ball is lost if and only if:

1. It is not found within 5 minutes.
2. The player has made a stroke at a substituted ball.
3. The player has made a stroke at a provisional ball from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place.

After hitting a nice provisional, you cannot "DECLARE" that the original is lost.

If the original ball is found before any of the 3 statements above are true, you MUST abandon the provisional ball.

So I guess the question is that do I HAVE TO look for 5 minutes for my ball? And why did the OVGA official tell the player that he had to re-hit his original ball from his choice of options???? Lemme count here, that's 2 questions...

[el tigre]

It was an unplayable lie for the person.... best option was to go back to the tee... To be more accurate, it was at Mont Cascades on hole #11. There is also a drop area which was not in play..... The OVGA had a spotter there and that was the ruling.

Shtick, you obviously are much more familiar with Mont Cascades than I, but to the best of my knowledge there are no white stakes indicating OB on hole #11. Of course, there are a lot of woods surrounding the hole, so a "lost ball" is a very real possibility - but without stakes or lines indicating OB, you can hit a ball as far into the woods as you want and your ball would not be OB.

The difference is important. If the ball is OB, then you play the provisional. If the ball is merely hit a long way into the woods, then it may be a "lost ball" (in which case, play the provisional) but if it is found within 5 minutes then you have to abandon the provisional. It sounds like that was the ruling.

[Gary Hill]

It was an unplayable lie for the person

A ball lying out of bounds is out of bounds.
There is no "option" to declare it unplayable.

The OVGA had a spotter there and that was the ruling.

A spotter is not a Rules Official and has NO POWER to make on course rulings.

[el tigre]

So I guess the question is that do I HAVE TO look for 5 minutes for my ball?

No, but there is nothing preventing other people from looking for your ball - and if they find it then you are stuck with the consequences of that.

[NoBack]

but to the best of my knowledge there are no white stakes indicating OB on hole #11. Of course, there are a lot of woods surrounding the hole, so a "lost ball" is a very real possibility - but without stakes or lines indicating OB, you can hit a ball as far into the woods as you want and your ball would not be OB.

The OB is through those trees on the right side of the fairway. There is a road just right of all the trees. So off course = OB. Left is so deep it would'nt matter.

[Gary Hill]

So I guess the question is that do I HAVE TO look for 5 minutes for my ball?

No. Run like mad up to your provisional and hit it before anybody has a chance find your original ball (there is no penalty for playing out of turn in stroke play).

[The Shtick]

Shtick, you obviously are much more familiar with Mont Cascades than I, but to the best of my knowledge there are no white stakes indicating OB on hole #11. Of course, there are a lot of woods surrounding the hole, so a "lost ball" is a very real possibility - but without stakes or lines indicating OB, you can hit a ball as far into the woods as you want and your ball would not be OB.

The difference is important. If the ball is OB, then you play the provisional. If the ball is merely hit a long way into the woods, then it may be a "lost ball" (in which case, play the provisional) but if it is found within 5 minutes then you have to abandon the provisional. It sounds like that was the ruling.

Bang on Terry! There are no stakes there (on the right side). The ball was found and the best place to go was back to the tee. Too bad he couldn't use the provisional though.....

So, in my case where the ball went over white stakes my provisional was indeed in play and if I found my original ball nothing would change??

[NoBack]

Now you got it!

[The Shtick]

No. Run like mad up to your provisional and hit it before anybody has a chance find your original ball (there is no penalty for playing out of turn in stroke play).

That's what I did.... after all, I was in contention to win the tourney!

[el tigre]

The OB is through those trees on the right side of the fairway. There is a road just right of all the trees. So off course = OB. Left is so deep it would'nt matter.

If the ball was found on the road, then it could very well be OB if the road is OUTSIDE the boundaries of the course (I say that because I know there is a road at Mont Cascades WITHIN the boundaries of the course, although I believe it has white stakes defining OB along it). If the ball was found in the woods, it would not be OB.

And as I explained, just going DEEP into the woods on the left DOES matter. Strange things can happen in 5 minutes!

[Farzin]

Also your provisional ball becomes the ball in play only if you didn't declare that it is a provisinal ball that you are about to hit. In this case you do not have to look for your first ball., and if the first ball is found by you or anybody, it is not the ball in play anymore.

[The Shtick]

Also your provisional ball becomes the ball in play only if you didn't declare that it is a provisinal ball that you are about to hit. In this case you do not have to look for your first ball., and if the first ball is found by you or anybody, it is not the ball in play anymore.

Whenever in doubt, I always state that I am hitting a provisional. Not "another one" or "I'm re-loading"....... I am usually in the position to call someone on that!

[Farzin]

Sometimes it's better not to declare a provisional if you are in doubt and you know if your ball is found, it's either unplayable or you have to come back to tee after hitting your provisianol. why not take the stroke and distance penalty right then and there and save yourself time and trouble. Greg Norman did it.

[Gary Hill]

Sometimes it's better not to declare a provisional if you are in doubt

In that case, you would declare your original ball unplayable from the teeing ground and hit another ball. That would immediately clarify that you are not intending the second ball to be a provisional ball.