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  1. #1
    Moderator Big Johnny69 is on a distinguished road Big Johnny69's Avatar
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    Golf Instruction in the Year 2010

    This isn't so much of a rant, as it is a thread to see how people perceive the golf teaching industry.

    With the invention of the internet, the amount of information at your fingertips is incredible. So naturally golf instruction has progressed where by simplying talking about golf swing issues or posting a vid of your swing, you can get help without ever having to actually meet a teaching pro.

    A bit of a scenario for you:

    You find a golf related website you thoroughly enjoy. And as an avid golfer, you are always looking for ways to improve. So you constantly browse the instruction section looking for help with your particular problems or posting your own questions looking for help. To help you along the way there are many certified teaching instructors that visit the website to help with questions. Their credentials are either clearly listed in their signature, or they are one of the forum sponsors and all their details can be found in links on the sponsor page. These are hard working, honest teaching pros, who for the good or bad are putting their methods out there to the public in hopes of improving golfer's games.

    So when one of these teachers answer your questions, you can feel confident in trusting their answers. Now whether their methods work for you or not, that is a different question, but can be assured these guys know their stuff and if one idea doesn't work for you, maybe they have another that will.

    Now while reading in the instruction forum, you notice a new poster that is constantly posting tips and instructions, but is only backing his statements via previously released material from other well respected instructors. Also this poster tends to shoot down long standing and well proved instructional theories based on the fact that he's tried them and he deems them to be wrong.

    Now when questioned by the other teachers on the board as to his credentials, the poster refuses to mention who they are or where they studied. And when presented with much proof to disspell his own preached theories, he reiterates that they are wrong because he's tried them and they don't work for him (maybe not all the details, but the that is the gist of it).

    So my question to you is:

    1) What do you look for in an instructor? Do you want to know their credentials? What are their teaching methods and beliefs (do they have a style they like to follow or do they adapt to the abilities of the student)?

    2) Do you take any of what this guy says to heart, or simply put them on the ignore for constantly challenging, insulting and looking down on others that are supposed to be his colleagues, but prefers to hide behind the safety of his computer screen?

    Thanks in advance for the input.
    "A life lived in fear of the new and the untried is not a life lived to its fullest." M.Pare 10/09/08

  2. #2
    Scratch Player byerxa is on a distinguished road byerxa's Avatar
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    I look for an instructor that is able to recognize what the individual needs are for a given golfer. Everyone has different physical characteristics and hence will have their "own" swing that will work best for them. To me a good instructor is one that will teach you the fundamentals of golf and then work with that foundation to build your own swing.

    On the flip side, the student must be willing to educate themselves about the golf swing. They are then more able to work with their instructor at seeing the problems and how they can be fixed. This is also helpful in self diagnosing bad habits that always creep into our game.

    As for methodologies and the such, there are many ways you can hit the golf ball effectively. Be it "old style" excessive hip drive resulting in the old fashion reverse-C finish, the more "modern" quieter lower body swing, single plane/double plane/hybid, stack and tilt, single axis, etc., you could take any half decent golfer and get them to hit the ball reasonably well with any of these. To me it is a matter of finding a swing is best fits the individual's physical attributes and is most resiliant to "off" days.

    I personally dislike these "tip of the day" things. Sure some of the more general tips such as course strategy and fundamentals may be useful, but unless you know a student needs help in a specific area, the tip could make things worse or break something that is not broken. Like medicinal drugs, they only help if the problem they fix actually exists. What really amuses me is seeing tips in the same magazine issue that contradict each other
    I don't have an ulcer - I am just a carrier.

  3. #3
    Hall of Fame jvincent is on a distinguished road jvincent's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with instruction is that every person learns differently.

    Some people are better are reading, some need to hear it in person, some need to feel it byt having an instructor put them into specific positions.

    If you can find an instructor that figures out what teaching method works best for you then you will make progress. If you are out of sync, you will get worse.
    Not fat anymore. Need to get better at golf now!

  4. #4
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Johnny69 View Post
    With the invention of the internet, the amount of information at your fingertips is incredible. So naturally golf instruction has progressed where by simplying talking about golf swing issues or posting a vid of your swing, you can get help without ever having to actually meet a teaching pro.
    hallelujah
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  5. #5
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Johnny69 View Post
    1) What do you look for in an instructor? Do you want to know their credentials? What are their teaching methods and beliefs (do they have a style they like to follow or do they adapt to the abilities of the student)?

    2) Do you take any of what this guy says to heart, or simply put them on the ignore for constantly challenging, insulting and looking down on others that are supposed to be his colleagues, but prefers to hide behind the safety of his computer screen?
    You may have guessed I'd have some thoughts on what is a very interesting and very important topic.

    1. Nothing. I have little use for the traditional approach to teaching. While instructors have knowledge of WHAT to teach, from decades of discussions with various pros and listening to countless lessons, and reading dozens of instructional books/methods, I have come to the brilliant conclusion that, to be politically correct, there are better ways to learn. The golf swing has been broken down into so many little microscopic pieces, based solely on perception and feeling, that "All the Kings horses and all the King's men," have no clue HOW to put Humpty Dumpty together again.

    While it has been 40 years since university psychology, in the last several years I have been doing a lot of reading of neuroscience type publications trying to find out how the brain establishes motion circuits and obviously, in particular, in how we BEST learn a golf swing, and how make this golf swing permanent. There are different structures involved, one for the actual motion and one for emotion or FEAR. Based on what I have learned thus far, the way some instructors teach, IMO, impedes progress and I have first hand proof of this.

    2. IF you are referring to 'cornerstone,' RUN. While there is no doubt that some of his points MAY be valid, his perceptions are so off the wall and his manner so arrogant, that he is of little help. Again, while the WHAT of a golf swing IS important, it's HOW you learn it that is more important. Learning HOW to learn, and secondly, learning HOW to take whatever you have to the course under scoring or tournament pressure, and one's golf game will move to that elusive next level. Bob Rotella and fire the hips, swing down the line, shift your weight...won't get you there.

  6. #6
    Sleeps here davevandyk is on a distinguished road davevandyk's Avatar
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    I have a 'coach' although not in the traditional definition of the word... meaning I don't pay him!! So I can tell you what I look for in an instructor.

    Now before I could look for an instructor, I had to assess my own game and take an HONEST look in the mirror and see what was holding me back from going really low. This is a really important part, as there is no point having a coach solely focused on my swing mechanics when I feel my swing is not what's holding me back. So once I did that, this is what I looked for:

    1. Someone who has a good base knowledge of the golf game, the golf swing and a GREAT understanding of the golfer's mind. I have a good knowledge of all of these, but I needed someone who could pinpoint my downfalls and where I lose precious strokes.

    2. Someone who is enthusiastic about the game and is enthusiastic about MY game. I needed to feel I had a coach who believed in my game and believed I had the ability to get to where I want to be; in the plus.

    3. Someone who is/has been where I want to be. Especially since the mental game is so vital to me, I needed to have someone who has experienced what I am going to be experiencing and knows the best strategy for dealing with those situations.

    4. Most importantly, someone I enjoy being around and am comfortable with.

  7. #7
    Hall of Fame jonf is on a distinguished road jonf's Avatar
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    You would never hire a contractor who wouldn't give you his info and provide you with references, so why would it be any different for a golf instructor.

    Someone who is good at what they do will be eager to tell you all about themselves and their successes. The fact that someone is unwilling to do this is a sign that you should run.

  8. #8
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC MIST View Post
    1. Nothing. I have little use for the traditional approach to teaching. While instructors have knowledge of WHAT to teach, from decades of discussions with various pros and listening to countless lessons, and reading dozens of instructional books/methods, I have come to the brilliant conclusion that, to be politically correct, there are better ways to learn. The golf swing has been broken down into so many little microscopic pieces, based solely on perception and feeling, that "All the Kings horses and all the King's men," have no clue HOW to put Humpty Dumpty together again.
    i agree with this!

    if you stop to think about it, all golfers are self taught. whether they have a coach standing by them all the time telling them what to do, or they study their own swing with a webcam, laptop, and free swing software. either way, it is the golfer who has to 'walk the walk' and apply the knowledge he has been given. the golfer has to pick and choose what advice works for him and what doesn't.

    there are benefits to having a coach. i think hiring a golf coach will save a golfer a lot of time, in the sense that the knowledge he is looking for is right there with his coach, as opposed to searching around the internet for the answer. but in this day and age of internet and technology availalbe to all, i think a golfer can become just as good with or without a coach IF he's motiviated enough to want to better himself. or herself
    You only get out of something what you put into it

  9. #9
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by davevandyk View Post
    Now before I could look for an instructor, I had to assess my own game and take an HONEST look in the mirror and see what was holding me back from going really low. This is a really important part, as there is no point having a coach solely focused on my swing mechanics when I feel my swing is not what's holding me back. So once I did that, this is what I looked for:
    You are a low handicap player at the OGHC. To be low, your swing mechanics must be very sound, so that most of your shots are at or close to your target. Question: Is your swing a true, subconscious habit, that is, can you get the same results if you swing NOT thinking about anything golf related? If yes, it is; if no, it's not. If it is not, then (1) What needs to be done to make it a subconscious habit? (2) What are you thinking that may be preventing it from becoming one?

    The answer to (2) is FEAR. Any thoughts related to results, target, swing keys, score et al, cause various substances from the immune system to enter the rest of your body that cause various physiological changes that effectively alters your swing. We all have fear, some just control it better than others. We have touched on this before but the Rotella commit to the shot, be positive, think target, etc., stuff does not work. Some of this stuff may work after the fact to calm you down, but the only time period that really counts starts when you grip the club and ends when you watch the ball fly. If you were to use the Clear Key approach when you play, you temporarily get rid of all the fear. Carey Mumford (keygolf) says it best. The only thing clear key “eliminates,” if implemented properly, is the signal from anxiety that accompanies every instance of threat to one’s activity and/or inner system (the autoimmune function). The clear key blocks it because you can only think one thought at a time. Simply, if your mind is on your clear key, your mind is not on "commit to the shot, be positive, think target, score etc."It just allows your habitualized swing to come out when you play.

    To get back on topic, as long 99% of mental game "instruction" is Rotella, Valiente ...things will stay the same. True progress will be made when we move beyond their traditional approaches and we find something that directly correlates to how our minds and bodies actually work. Clear key does. There may be others.

    To answer (1) from above. The Bertholy programmes combined with clear key, will make your swing a habit. 100% money back guaranteed.

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