Average putts per round? (AKA: Does putting really matter?)

[jvincent]

OK, so I'm working on getting the index into single digits. The conventional wisdom would say "Work on your putting". But I tend to disagree.

If you look at the PGA tour stats, the number one guy is at 27.97 putts per round and the number 187 ranked guy is at 30.43. Not a very big spread. You'd figure if there was a lot to be gained by being a putting super man, these guys would be able to go really low.

Since I'm generally around 31 ppr, I figure I need to work more on other stuff like making sure I keep it in play off the tee and not making stupid mistakes in the fairway, which is where I seem to lose most of my strokes.

Any of the low handicappers out there want to challenge this?

[powerlefty]

I think putting and short game should have a different emphasis depending on skill level. For the beginner it's probably more important to work on the full swing so as to just get the ball around the course. They'll still make a few putts and even if they take 45 putts, they'll probably take 50 full strokes.

Once you get a decent swing established, I think putting and short game become more dominant. I am an 11 and average around 33 putts a round. Improve that by a couple and I am a single handicapper. Improve my up-and-down rate form below 40% to 50% or more and I would save another couple of strokes per round.

Once you get down to the lower single digits maybe the full swing becomes more important again because with a decent putting stroke and short game, now the emphasis becomes more on hitting more greens and hitting it closer to the pins to lower the handicap.

Just my thoughts...

[jonf]

3 shots a game translates into 12 over a tournament, so, i'd say that's a pretty big spread

[BC MIST]

OK, so I'm working on getting the index into single digits. The conventional wisdom would say "Work on your putting". But I tend to disagree.

If you look at the PGA tour stats, the number one guy is at 27.97 putts per round and the number 187 ranked guy is at 30.43. Not a very big spread. You'd figure if there was a lot to be gained by being a putting super man, these guys would be able to go really low.

Since I'm generally around 31 ppr, I figure I need to work more on other stuff like making sure I keep it in play off the tee and not making stupid mistakes in the fairway, which is where I seem to lose most of my strokes.

Any of the low handicappers out there want to challenge this?

My putting average is 32 point something which would put me in the average category, however, I an averaging fractionally over 14 greens in regulation which explains why the average is so high. A golfer who hits 5 greens but is a good putter has a very low average putts per round, so that stat is very misleading. Two other stats are more important than average strokes per round.

One is putts per green in regulation," and the other is save or up and down percentage.

Putting is the most important aspect of the game. Regardless of how you hit the ball or how good your short game is, if you can't putt, you can't score.

[jvincent]

My putting average is 32 point something which would put me in the average category, however, I an averaging fractionally over 14 greens in regulation which explains why the average is so high. A golfer who hits 5 greens but is a good putter has a very low average putts per round, so that stat is very misleading. Two other stats are more important than average strokes per round.

This is the part that I'm looking for some validation/proof of. I have yet to see anyone who actually misses a lot of greens and gets into the mid 20's PPR.

Most of the time they end up not chipping very well either and ultimately end up around 30 putts.

[NoBack]

the number one guy is at 27.97 putts per round and the number 187 ranked guy is at 30.43. Not a very big spread.

I agree with jonf. This at 4 rounds is a BIG spread IMO too.

I usually come in around 29-32 putts. But missing greens and chipping close helps.

[jvincent]

I agree with jonf. This at 4 rounds is a BIG spread IMO too.

True, forgot about the 4 rounds / tournament context.

[broken27]

I am a higher handicap (22) but putting is the strongest part of my game. I don't get many GIRs, thus find myself within about 12 feet for my first putt quite frequently since I will putt from anything close to the green rather than chipping. I'm sure that there is merit to improving your putting regardless of your skill level overall. But how much will it improve your handicap? Well, judging by the calculation method, it may take a while to notice anything major....

Dan

[guyinottawa]

Putting, in my opinion, is probably the most important part of the game. However, I rarely work on it. I have a two ball putter - its a great tool. So far...

[mberube]

My putting average is 32 point something which would put me in the average category, however, I an averaging fractionally over 14 greens in regulation which explains why the average is so high. A golfer who hits 5 greens but is a good putter has a very low average putts per round, so that stat is very misleading. Two other stats are more important than average strokes per round.

One is putts per green in regulation," and the other is save or up and down percentage.

Putting is the most important aspect of the game. Regardless of how you hit the ball or how good your short game is, if you can't putt, you can't score.

BC said it all. PPR is a good stats if you hit a lot of GIR. I am a 7.2 index and hit an average of 7 GIR. My putting stats (avr less then 30 ppr) are very good cause my shot game is good. Up and down stats and PPGIR are the two most important aspect in playing low rounds.

[jvincent]

BC said it all. PPR is a good stats if you hit a lot of GIR. I am a 7.2 index and hit an average of 7 GIR. My putting stats (avr less then 30 ppr) are very good cause my shot game is good. Up and down stats and PPGIR are the two most important aspect in playing low rounds.

I sort of agree with you and BC in that what really matters are, in order of priority:

1. Hit as many GIR as you can.
2. Practice your short game, specifically pitching and chipping.
3. Putting.

Putting as a number one priority is what I'm challenging since from what I can gather, it doesn't have as strong a correlation to lower scores as GIR.

Way back when I used to be good (shot in the 70's regulary) I had the kind of game BC described, hit a lot of greens, and was average on the putting front. If I compare my game now to then, I actually think I putt a little better but my iron play isn't as good as it used to be so I'm missing a lot more greens.

[Farzin]

Each hole starts from tee to green. putting doesn't count, If the ball is not on the green. The more strokes it takes to put the ball on the green, the higher the score becomes regardless of putting stats.... My 1/2 cent.

[NoBack]

putting doesn't count

????????????????????

Let's see about this now. Every pro golfer can get to the greens in regulation just as much as the others, but whomever putts best that week will win. I'm pretty sure whoever putts the best this week at "The Open" will win. IMO no contest on this debate.

[GarthM]

Keep in mind that the pros' stats are putts per green in regulation, not average putts per round total.

That is why their stats seem a little high, the one-putt up-and-downs are not counted in the average.

While it is important to put the ball in the fairway, if you can't put it in the hole, forget it -- short game, short game, short game....

[BC MIST]

Each hole starts from tee to green. putting doesn't count, If the ball is not on the green. The more strokes it takes to put the ball on the green, the higher the score becomes regardless of putting stats.... My 1/2 cent.

While par is a meaningless term, on a typical hole par allows you one drive, one approach and two putts. The only true variable of par is putts, as you must take 1 drive, you must make one approach, but you do not have to take 2 putts. If you are a good putter and are putting on good greens, then your putts per green in regulation will be less than 2.00. This is where you can save strokes. You can't save a drive nor can you save an approach but you can take fewer putts than par allows you. Of course this is based on par which means that you hit every green in regulation.

Hitting every green in regulation is a rarity, so how do we save strokes now? We still have to hit a drive, but if we are skillful with the short pitches and chips we can put the ball in a position to make the putt for the par. But, if you can't putt well, you will not save the par, so putting is still more important. In Dave Pelz initial book, "Putt Like the Pros," he proved that a tour professional makes a 6' putt, 50% of the time. Obviously, our percentages will be lower, making the par more difficult if your putting is weak.

How else can strokes be saved? While a good drive creates a positive mindset, unless you can get the next shot close to or on the green, AND unless you can putt, par becomes elusive. However, if you are hitting your drives into the bush, then obviously extra strokes need to be taken so working on your swing until you can avoid the penalty strokes is necessary. Because the margin for error off the tee is extremely large, the odds of hitting the ball into play with the driver is quite good. It is harder for the average golfer to hit a green in regulation than it is to hit a fairway, so working on iron play is next in order of priority. As stated above the odds of the best players in the world making a 6 foot putt are only 50%, so the margin for error is very small, but the importance is very high and important.

If the above makes any sense, then the aspects of your game that determine your scores, in order of importance, are: putting, short game, iron play and lastly, driving. In yesterday's Citizen, I hit every drive in play, hit the same number of greens on the front as I did on the back, but on the front I made 3 lengthy putts for a 37, but on the back, none, for 40. Not pretty, but the putting was the difference.

I would agree though, if the scores or handicap of the player are higher, the reasons for the highers scores are more likely to be driving and iron play, however, good putting can save a lot of strokes, regardless of handicap. Who wins most PGA Tour events, the players who hit the ball well, or the ones who have a good putting week?

[mberube]

Keep in mind that the pros' stats are putts per green in regulation, not average putts per round total.

Not true! The putts per round stats we are talking about in this poll are the total amount of PPR. This is the quote from the PGA tour web site:

Putts per round is the average number of putts per round played.

Best average in 27.94 PPR


Putting average is what you are talking about.

Putting Leaders measures putting performance on those holes where the green is hit in regulation (GIR). For these holes, the total putts are divided by the total holes played. By using greens hit in regulation we are able to eliminate the effects of chipping close and one putting in the computation.

Best stat is 1.716 PPGIR.

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/r

[jvincent]

Hitting every green in regulation is a rarity, so how do we save strokes now? We still have to hit a drive, but if we are skillful with the short pitches and chips we can put the ball in a position to make the putt for the par. But, if you can't putt well, you will not save the par, so putting is still more important. In Dave Pelz initial book, "Putt Like the Pros," he proved that a tour professional makes a 6' putt, 50% of the time. Obviously, our percentages will be lower, making the par more difficult if your putting is weak.

I was going to look for the Pelz statistic.

My take on this, from a statistical point of view, is that ranking putting #3 on the list, still holds.

If you are on the green in reg or close to it and a good chipper, the odds are you are going to have pretty much all of your par tries be 6' or less. Let's assume we, the non pros, make 50% of all those putts, since quite a few will be less than 6'. That's 9 over par on a consistent basis. I'm pretty sure many of us would take that.

I know that if I could guarantee that I was <6' from every hole for par I would take in a second because I make a lot more than 50% of all those putts. It's the 10 and 12 footers for par (or bogey, ugh) that kill me.

Having said all that, don't get me wrong, putting is still important and if you are on fire with the putter, you are going to do well. If anything I think putting is probably more important for the low handicappers than the higher ones.

[mberube]

I was going to look for the Pelz statistic.

My take on this, from a statistical point of view, is that ranking putting #3 on the list, still holds.

If you are on the green in reg or close to it and a good chipper, the odds are you are going to have pretty much all of your par tries be 6' or less. Let's assume we, the non pros, make 50% of all those putts, since quite a few will be less than 6'. That's 9 over par on a consistent basis. I'm pretty sure many of us would take that.

I know that if I could guarantee that I was <6' from every hole for par I would take in a second because I make a lot more than 50% of all those putts. It's the 10 and 12 footers for par (or bogey, ugh) that kill me.

Having said all that, don't get me wrong, putting is still important and if you are on fire with the putter, you are going to do well. If anything I think putting is probably more important for the low handicappers than the higher ones.

The best way to find out what you should work on is to sit down after a round. Go hole by hole and write down what shot or shots per hole you should of not mist. Especially on your short game and putting. You will be amazed on how many putts within 3-4-5 feet you mist. Your eyes will probably pop out your head.

[jvincent]

The best way to find out what you should work on is to sit down after a round. Go hole by hole and write down what shot or shots per hole you should of not mist. Especially on your short game and putting. You will be amazed on how many putts within 3-4-5 feet you mist. Your eyes will probably pop out your head.

Agreed, and in fact I do that and that was the premise for the start of this thread.

Playing back my rounds, I seem to always find that I'm losing more strokes tee to green, than on the green. Yes, there's always a couple of putts per round that I think I should have made, but those aren't nearly as detrimental to my overall score as turning off my brain for 30 seconds and grabbing 8-iron instead of SW and airmailing the green like I did the other day.

[mberube]

Agreed, and in fact I do that and that was the premise for the start of this thread.

Playing back my rounds, I seem to always find that I'm losing more strokes tee to green, than on the green. Yes, there's always a couple of putts per round that I think I should have made, but those aren't nearly as detrimental to my overall score as turning off my brain for 30 seconds and grabbing 8-iron instead of SW and airmailing the green like I did the other day.

The fact is that most of us will never hit an average of 50% GIR. This gives you 9+ holes to scramble for a decent score. I personally think that chipping and pitching is the most important aspect of the game but you must be able to strike the flat stick with confidence to finish up you’re beautiful touch around the greens.

Short game is a lot easier to learn then the complex full swing.

[Colby]

The fact is that most of us will never hit an average of 50% GIR. This gives you 9+ holes to scramble for a decent score. I personally think that chipping and pitching is the most important aspect of the game but you must be able to strike the flat stick with confidence to finish up you’re beautiful touch around the greens.

Short game is a lot easier to learn then the complex full swing.

My index is running just over 10, not great, but not terrible. I keep pretty close track of my stats, being the computer geek that I am, and although I hit a fair number of fairways, 57.9%, my GIR is quite low, 26.6. My PPR is 32.58, or 1.81 putts per hole. My putts per hole when GIR is much higher at 2.12, or if I hit all 18 green sin a round, or 38.16 PPR.

I agree that the short game is very important, and for me, sand play was vital to learn. I worked hard on my sand game as a couple of years ago, a visit to a greenside bunker could add 2-3 strokes per hole, now my sand save percentage is 25%, which strangley is higher than my up and down percentage at 24.6! I need to get back to practicing some chipping and pitching drills!

My big problem now is my approach shots, I need to get things a bit closer to get more GIR and less putts per hole GIR.

[Kilroy]

Now there is a man using the software as it should be used; to analize the stats and arrive at conclusions on what needs work.

[broken27]

Is there any free software, or a trial version, that would allow me to input all these stats? I just don't want to download and install 50 different programs andd find that they are useless for what I need. I'd like to calculate GIR, FIR, Putts, and possibly Sand Save %.

Thanks,
Dan

[Kilroy]

Gstat is what we use on the tour, and what Colby uses. It is $29 US. Well worth it, and we already have a pretty good database of area courses.

www.gstatpro.com

[Weazl]

I'll tell you if I hadn't 3 putted 6 times this weekend at Cloverdale my round would of been much better! Putting is very important. Would of changed a 92, to an 86!

[el tigre]

My index is running just over 10, not great, but not terrible. I keep pretty close track of my stats, being the computer geek that I am, and although I hit a fair number of fairways, 57.9%, my GIR is quite low, 26.6.

Just curious Colby, is your average score for the same period somewhere between 83.5 - 87.5? Seems about right with an index of 10.

Reason I ask is that in another thread I was discussing with mberube the relationship between GIRs and average score. Golf Digest did a study a number of years ago that showed a very strong correlation between the two (stronger than any other stat) - basically saying that you can predict someones average score +- 2 strokes if you know their average GIR with virtually no exceptions. I've verified it with my own stats and mberube's, and I was wondering if it holds for other people as well.

[el tigre]

Is there any free software, or a trial version, that would allow me to input all these stats? I just don't want to download and install 50 different programs andd find that they are useless for what I need. I'd like to calculate GIR, FIR, Putts, and possibly Sand Save %.

There are actually a lot of web-based services available, most with a (free) registration requirement. Golf Magazine, The Golf Channel, Golf Digest - they all have them. Here's a Canadian one I found:

http://www.canadagolfguide.com/

Might want to check them out.

[mberube]

I personally think it’s a waist of time and it brings frustration in play to keep stats on everything. I did in the past and I felt I played my worst golf because the stats frustrated me.

I believe that if you are not a very low handicapper, you need to work on all aspects of the game. Be honest with yourself and you won need stats to point out what you need to work at.

Just my personal experience.

[broken27]

I personally think it’s a waist of time and it brings frustration in play to keep stats on everything. I did in the past and I felt I played my worst golf because the stats frustrated me.

I believe that if you are not a very low handicapper, you need to work on all aspects of the game. Be honest with yourself and you won need stats to point out what you need to work at.

Just my personal experience.

I generally agree with you here Mike, in that I know all facets of my game need work. The thing is that I hit a high percentage of fairways, and have decent distance off the tee (220-260) with my 3W. I'm just interested in checking out what my stats are for pure self-indulgent reasons. I like stats, and although I am aware of the potential for frustration, I know it's being done on my own request, so I'm sure I can overlook any frustrating element of my game enough to continue to enjoy playing.

It's more of an experiment than something I'd do regularly.

Thanks for the link el tigre.
Dan

[jvincent]

Just curious Colby, is your average score for the same period somewhere between 83.5 - 87.5? Seems about right with an index of 10.

Reason I ask is that in another thread I was discussing with mberube the relationship between GIRs and average score. Golf Digest did a study a number of years ago that showed a very strong correlation between the two (stronger than any other stat) - basically saying that you can predict someones average score +- 2 strokes if you know their average GIR with virtually no exceptions. I've verified it with my own stats and mberube's, and I was wondering if it holds for other people as well.

I'm not Colby, but my index is close (11.2) and our games are statistically very similar. I don't actually track all my stats, just score, putts, and GIR.

I saw that Gold Digest study and the golfers I worked with started checking it out and indeed found that it was generally accurate.

We also developed our own rating called "Spaz Factor" which you applied if you were over the formula predicted score. I.e. if you hit 10 GIR and shoot 105, you were a tremendous spaz that day.