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  1. #1
    Playing Winter Rules Farzin is on a distinguished road
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    Playing the wrong ball

    On our road trip last weekend, I got penalized twice for playing the wrong ball.
    First time, it was a friendly game that my playing partner had played my ball first and after I made my shot to the green, I found out that in fact it wasn't my ball, When I asked him if he has my ball, the answer was yes. Therefore we both got penalized 2 stroke for playing the wrong ball.
    The second time it happened on a competition round the day after. My playing partner had hit my ball first and after I made my shot to the green I saw that it is not my ball on the green, again I was penalized. For somebody else played my ball first and me being penalized for playing his ball second. although the ruling is clear for playing the wrong ball. I found that it is not fair that I be penalized 2 strokes " same penalty as my playing partner" for the reason that he has played my ball first.
    I like to see what is your opinion on this. should we both be penalized the same although I was not the one who initiated the wrong doing and I was the one who found out the wrong doing both times. In both cases the balls were not far apart and they were on the fairway but the markings were not obvious. Both times same brand of balls were used by both players and the order of play was in effect. :cryin

  2. #2
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    err... what was preventing you from idtentifying the ball you were about to play?

    (it's the only one left on the fairway so it "must" be mine ???? )

    Because the first player did not identify the ball he was about to hit, he suffered the consequences and was penalized.

    You also did not identify the ball you were about to play and suffered the same consequences.

    I don't see the relevance of who played the wrong ball first. You are both guilty of playing the wrong ball.


    BTW - In match play, the penalty is loss of hole. Therefore, it is irrelevant whether or not you hit his ball. The hole is over and won by you the instant your opponent hits your ball.

  3. #3
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    Farzin. I think the outcome may have been the same, meaning loss of hole, but here's the rule from USGA:

    If it was during singles play:
    15-3. Wrong Ball
    a. Match Play
    If a player makes a stroke at a wrong ball that is not in a hazard, he loses the hole.

    If the wrong ball belongs to another player, its owner must place a ball on the spot from which the wrong ball was first played.

    If the player and opponent exchange balls during the play of a hole, the first to make a stroke at a wrong ball that is not in a hazard, loses the hole; when this cannot be determined, the hole must be played out with the balls exchanged.


    If it was best-ball:
    30-3.
    d. Wrong Ball
    If a player makes a stroke at a wrong ball that is not in a hazard, he is disqualified for that hole, but his partner incurs no penalty even if the wrong ball belongs to him. If the wrong ball belongs to another player, its owner must place a ball on the spot from which the wrong ball was first played.
    But since you BOTH played a wrong ball, I'd imagine you'd BOTH be out of the hole. Because you didn't check your ball before shooting, you are subject to the penalty. You are not being penalized for anything your partner did. You should have dropped a ball from where he played your ball in the first place.

    BTW, did you win the hole?

    Dan
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  4. #4
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken27
    did you win the hole?
    Where did you get the idea that it was match play?

  5. #5
    Playing Winter Rules Farzin is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hill
    err... what was preventing you from idtentifying the ball you were about to play?

    (it's the only one left on the fairway so it "must" be mine ???? )

    .
    Exactly Gary.I didn't make a fuss out of it either, but I gave my partner a kick in the butt both times for not identifying his ball and having me make a forced error......

    BTW. I learned my lesson I hope.

  6. #6
    Playing Winter Rules Farzin is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken27

    BTW, did you win the hole?

    Dan
    Thanks for the trouble. Broken.
    The first round was not a match play, just a friendly round, but the second time I can't remember where during our 36 hole "different format" it happened. I wish I could have remembered.

  7. #7
    Hall of Fame NoBack is on a distinguished road NoBack's Avatar
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    Doesnt make any difference Farzin. All four 9 holes we played on saturday were match play (best ball/alternate shot/scramble and singles)
    I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
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  8. #8
    Playing Winter Rules Farzin is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Karam
    Doesnt make any difference Farzin. All four 9 holes we played on saturday were match play (best ball/alternate shot/scramble and singles)
    ya: you are right. In any case we both took 2 penalty strokes and we proceeded from there on. DQ is in effect.

  9. #9
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Hill
    Where did you get the idea that it was match play?
    I was there.....

    Dan
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  10. #10
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 BC MIST is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farzin
    Exactly Gary.I didn't make a fuss out of it either, but I gave my partner a kick in the butt both times for not identifying his ball and having me make a forced error......

    BTW. I learned my lesson I hope.
    Take a coloured permanent marker and make a large circle, at least the size of a quarter, around the name and number of the ball, and then fill it in.

    Problem solved.

    Do not use blue. I have the copyright.
    Last edited by BC MIST; 07-08-2004 at 01:24 PM.

  11. #11
    Playing Winter Rules Farzin is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC MIST
    Take a coloured permanent marker and make a large circle, at least the size of a quarter, around the name and number of the ball, and then fill it in.

    Problem solved.

    Do not use blue. I have the copywrite.
    Good suggestion BC. How about four different colour ball for a foursome, everybody knows it's colour.

  12. #12
    Hall of Fame NoBack is on a distinguished road NoBack's Avatar
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    I'll take the white one Farzin, you can have the pink ball.
    I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
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  13. #13
    Golf Canada Rules Official L4 LobWedge is on a distinguished road LobWedge's Avatar
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    Farzin. It's always a good idea to put some kind of identification mark on your ball with a permanent marker, as BCMIST has pointed out. It's also a good idea that before any round, tournament or otherwise, to check with your fellow competitors on the first tee what make and model of ball they're playing and letting them know what you're playing. If you switch your ball type or number during your round (only before you start a hole, not during one ), let everyone else know what you're doing. It saves a lot of confusion later.
    When applying the Rules, you follow them line by line. You don't read between them.

  14. #14
    Playing Winter Rules Farzin is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by LobWedge
    Farzin. It's always a good idea to put some kind of identification mark on your ball with a permanent marker, as BCMIST has pointed out. It's also a good idea that before any round, tournament or otherwise, to check with your fellow competitors on the first tee what make and model of ball they're playing and letting them know what you're playing. If you switch your ball type or number during your round (only before you start a hole, not during one ), let everyone else know what you're doing. It saves a lot of confusion later.
    I went out and bought for markers, black ones ( not pink Steve). I learned my lesson.
    It usually doesn't happen if you are the last guy on the fairway to hit the last ball, Naturally you wouldn't check the ball, assuming everybody played his ball. :shake

  15. #15
    Eagle Deep Woods is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farzin
    I like to see what is your opinion on this. should we both be penalized the same although I was not the one who initiated the wrong doing and I was the one who found out the wrong doing both times.
    Personally, rules aside, I don't think its fair.

    Can I ask, if Farzin HAD identified the ball before hitting it, what happens? Does he drop an alternative ball for free in the spot his original had been?

  16. #16
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deep Woods
    Personally, rules aside, I don't think its fair.

    Can I ask, if Farzin HAD identified the ball before hitting it, what happens? Does he drop an alternative ball for free in the spot his original had been?
    They would have ensured that the ball the other player hit was Farzin's, retrieved the ball, and Farzin would have it it from a spot as colse to the the original spot as can be determined. The player who had hit Farzin's ball would be penalized, Farzin would have received no penalty, and both players would finish the hole out with their respective ball.
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  17. #17
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby
    The player who had hit Farzin's ball would be penalized, Farzin would have received no penalty, and both players would finish the hole out with their respective ball.
    Farzin would drop his/a ball at the point closest to the original lie and play on from there.

    BOLD TEXT - This is only true in stroke play. In match play, the offending player is out of the hole. Technically, they should have both been out of the hole, but since there was no rules expert in their group, I guess they got away with it! :blush

    Dan
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  18. #18
    Founder Kilroy is on a distinguished road Kilroy's Avatar
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    They lost the hole anyway, but it was called as 2 strokes each, so technically you are correct. We messed up.

  19. #19
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broken27
    Farzin would drop his/a ball at the point closest to the original lie and play on from there.

    BOLD TEXT - This is only true in stroke play. In match play, the offending player is out of the hole. Technically, they should have both been out of the hole, but since there was no rules expert in their group, I guess they got away with it! :blush

    Dan
    It was the right call for Friday
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  20. #20
    Hopelessly Addicted broken27 is on a distinguished road broken27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby
    It was the right call for Friday
    It was indeed. I just wanted to make sure the differences were noted.

    Dan
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  21. #21
    Hall of Fame NoBack is on a distinguished road NoBack's Avatar
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    A twist to this...................

    Gary

    What if Farzin's competitor had played another ball left by someone not in his group? Then found his ball? Would the stroke taken with the wrong ball be counted??

    The reason I ask is someone said that because the ball was not a ball being played by any of their foursome, there is no penalty??? Can this be??
    I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
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  22. #22
    Way Beyond Help Colby is on a distinguished road Colby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Karam
    Gary

    What if Farzin's competitor had played another ball left by someone not in his group? Then found his ball? Would the stroke taken with the wrong ball be counted??

    The reason I ask is someone said that because the ball was not a ball being played by any of their foursome, there is no penalty??? Can this be??
    There is still a penalty, and the player has to go and play his own ball.

    15-3. Wrong Ball
    a. Match Play
    If a player makes a stroke at a wrong ball that is not in a hazard, he loses the hole.


    There is no penalty if a player makes a stroke at a wrong ball in a hazard. Any strokes made at a wrong ball in a hazard do not count in the player’s score.
    If the wrong ball belongs to another player, its owner must place a ball on the spot from which the wrong ball was first played.

    If the player and opponent exchange balls during the play of a hole, the first to make a stroke at a wrong ball that is not in a hazard, loses the hole; when this cannot be determined, the hole must be played out with the balls exchanged.

    b. Stroke Play
    If a competitor makes a stroke or strokes at a wrong ball that is not in a hazard, he incurs a penalty of two strokes.


    There is no penalty if a competitor makes a stroke at a wrong ball in a hazard. Any strokes made at a wrong ball in a hazard do not count in the competitor’s score.

    The competitor must correct his mistake by playing the correct ball or by proceeding under the Rules. If he fails to correct his mistake before making a stroke on the next teeing ground, or in the case of the last hole of the round, fails to declare his intention to correct his mistake before leaving the putting green, he is disqualified.

    Strokesmade by a competitor with a wrong ball do not count in his score.
    If the wrong ball belongs to another competitor, its owner must place a ball on the spot from which the wrong ball was first played.
    (Lie of ball to be placed or replaced altered — see Rule 20-3b.)
    (Spot not determinable — see Rule 20-3c.)
    It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.
    Colby

  23. #23
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Karam
    What if Farzin's competitor had played another ball left by someone not in his group? Then found his ball? Would the stroke taken with the wrong ball be counted?
    The stroke taken with the wrong ball would not be counted in the player's score, but there would be a penalty of two strokes for playing the wrong ball (or loss of hole in match play).

    If the stroke was made in a hazard, it would not count in the players score nor would there be a penalty.

    BTW - Lots of people seems to be confused about the status of other players on the course.

    Other humans are "outside agencies" whether in your group, in the competition field, spectators, officials, or anything else.

    Generally speaking, from a Rules perspective, you should consider yourself alone on the course.

    (One of the few exceptions is asking to lift your ball for identification under Rule 12-2.
    You must give your opponent, marker, or fellow-competitor an opportunity to observe the lifting and replacement.)

  24. #24
    Hall of Fame NoBack is on a distinguished road NoBack's Avatar
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    thanks
    I've spent most of my life golfing .... the rest I've just wasted"
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  25. #25
    Must be Single Sakuraba is on a distinguished road Sakuraba's Avatar
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    This happened in my group during a club qualifier last weekend: a par 5, both balls are driven in the fairway, golfer #1 hit his (correctly identified) approach, to about 100yrds out. golfer #2 hits his 2nd shot (also his correctly identified ball) right at the pin, but it is in a blind spot, and as the greens are lightning, he believes he's rolled off the back. we get back to golfer#1, who now hits his ball at the stick, also blind, and thinks he's on.

    We get to the green, and golfer #2 is disappointed because he believes that he has rolled off and is in the rough. There is a ball next to the stick, and golfer #1 is confident its his. (can you guess that this is where the switch occurred?) Both men are playing the same ball, but one has black dots on one side, and one doesn't. Golfer #2 chips close and taps in the bird, never clearly identifying his ball. Golfer #1 misses the bird, taps in a par, and also fails to identify the ball, even though he marked it, picked it up and replaced it.

    On the next tee, they realize that they have each other's ball. (BTW it was golfer #2 who noticed the mistake, when he teed up the ball in his pocket and saw no dots) They each add 2 strokes to their scorecard for that hole. Was this the proper procedure?

  26. #26
    RulesNut Gary Hill is on a distinguished road Gary Hill's Avatar
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    They each correctly applied a 2 stroke penalty for playing a wrong ball, but the important thing is what happened after the discovery.

    Both players must go back and correct the mistake from the spot where the wrong balls were first played.
    Rule 15-3b.
    The competitor must correct his mistake by playing the correct ball or by proceeding under the Rules.


    If they continued play from the tee, they are both disqualified.
    Rule 15-3b.
    If he fails to correct his mistake before making a stroke on the next teeing ground, or in the case of the last hole of the round, fails to declare his intention to correct his mistake before leaving the putting green, he is disqualified.
    The competitor must correct his mistake by playing the correct ball or by proceeding under the Rules.

  27. #27
    Must be Single Sakuraba is on a distinguished road Sakuraba's Avatar
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    Thank you, that was my suspicion.

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