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  1. #241
    Champion goochy is on a distinguished road goochy's Avatar
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    I take nothing away from Spain's win. They were technically and tactically the best team in South Africa (and Germany were excellent too).

    However....I have watched every World Cup pretty seriously since 1978 and overall this was a poor World Cup....the worst since Italia 1990 (and maybe even worse than that)

    The standard of play was poor, England, Italy, France and Portugal were all average or worse. The Dutch were outragous in the Final. The level of gamesmanship and referee intimidation has sunk to an all time low I believe. As an example, the winning goal in the final was beautifully taken, but immediately the Dutch, as they had all game, crowded the referee and assistant referee believing Iniesta was offside. He was not, it was an excellent decision under huge pressure by the official. The intimidation of officials now is appalling and should not be tolerated. I don't mean to preach, but if I, or any player, swore abusively at a ref or rushed and crowded a ref in Rugby, we would be sent off...immediately, every time...result....it is very rare that you see that kind of behaviour.

    Why Football tolerates it is beyond me. I agree with nokids, Football is a beautiful game, the world's game, a game that brings people from every corner of the globe together like no other BUT..it could use this power to promote fair play and honesty way more than it does and stamp out what is, when all is said and done, cheating.

    I actually take my hat off to the officials. Their were mistakes of course, but the number of times they got close calls under huge pressure correct was I think amazing.....they should be helped by technology, they have a tough enough job as it is.

    Lastly, although I bet on the Dutch, by the end of the game I was actually praying for a Spanish goal, because if it had gone to PKs and Holland won, Football would have been a real loser

  2. #242
    Champion goochy is on a distinguished road goochy's Avatar
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    Now, fundonny, where's that beer becuase I have no idea about NFL and need an education..lol

  3. #243
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goochy View Post
    I take nothing away from Spain's win. They were technically and tactically the best team in South Africa (and Germany were excellent too).

    However....I have watched every World Cup pretty seriously since 1978 and overall this was a poor World Cup....the worst since Italia 1990 (and maybe even worse than that)

    The standard of play was poor, England, Italy, France and Portugal were all average or worse. The Dutch were outragous in the Final. The level of gamesmanship and referee intimidation has sunk to an all time low I believe. As an example, the winning goal in the final was beautifully taken, but immediately the Dutch, as they had all game, crowded the referee and assistant referee believing Iniesta was offside. He was not, it was an excellent decision under huge pressure by the official. The intimidation of officials now is appalling and should not be tolerated. I don't mean to preach, but if I, or any player, swore abusively at a ref or rushed and crowded a ref in Rugby, we would be sent off...immediately, every time...result....it is very rare that you see that kind of behaviour.

    Why Football tolerates it is beyond me. I agree with nokids, Football is a beautiful game, the world's game, a game that brings people from every corner of the globe together like no other BUT..it could use this power to promote fair play and honesty way more than it does and stamp out what is, when all is said and done, cheating.

    I actually take my hat off to the officials. Their were mistakes of course, but the number of times they got close calls under huge pressure correct was I think amazing.....they should be helped by technology, they have a tough enough job as it is.

    Lastly, although I bet on the Dutch, by the end of the game I was actually praying for a Spanish goal, because if it had gone to PKs and Holland won, Football would have been a real loser
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  4. #244
    Need a Caddy golfinteg is on a distinguished road golfinteg's Avatar
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    Lesser European (Serbia, Slovenia et al) & the Asian teams (Japan & South Korea) including the US & ANZAC teams have more or less reach parity, not the typical Tier 2 opponents we come to associate with in previous WCs.
    Last edited by golfinteg; 05-05-2011 at 04:29 AM.
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  5. #245
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    I don't know who to agree with, every time someone writes a post i jump to the other side.

    Well said Golfinteg!!!!! There was nothing ugly about watching Spain play. All 7 matches I saw were a joy to watch. I didn't catch many of the other European teams, but I can appreciate how Germany were clinical (even though they play like a bunch of robots without creativity). The rest of europe stunk. While the Dutch get their own place in history, you described them perfectly. Thanks
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  6. #246
    Hall of Fame jeffc is on a distinguished road jeffc's Avatar
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    In other soccer news, Canada is now ranked 100th in the world.
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  7. #247
    Champion goochy is on a distinguished road goochy's Avatar
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    With all due respect golfinteg, I disagree with almost everything you write.


    Quote Originally Posted by golfinteg View Post
    au contrairie to those who think that the standard of this 2010 WC play was poor. I think you'll find pretty much every expert in the world disagrees with you here

    IMO teams like England & its players were overrated & overhyped by the jingoistic media & parochial fans. England lost only one game in 2 years during qualification stages...no mean feat in Europe...and that loss was after they had already qualified..England have a very good team that just had a poor tournament...statistically their worse

    Lesser European (Serbia, Slovenia et al) & the Asian teams (Japan & South Korea) including the US & ANZAC teams have more or less reach parity, not the typical Tier 2 opponents we come to associate with in previous WCs. Case in point the cracking Japan vs Holland match could have turn out otherwise if Japan had attacked from the get go. Their talents, techniques have more or less surpassed that of England, France etc. wow...I don;t even know how to respond to that...if you honestly, hand on heart, believe that a team like New Zealand or Japan have reached parity with a team like England or France I am simply stunned....NZ played with tremendous organisation and determination and fortitude, but equal talent and techniques....come on..

    The days of perennial powerhouses like France, Italy (I have never consider England & the other British teams because of their football style, 'gun & run, hoof & Hail Mary mentality & approach with an overwhelming reliance on grit & size rather than finesse) are over.
    Spain were hardly underdogs...the semi finalists were World ranked, 2, 4, 6 and 16 before the tournament. Italy, France, England, Portugal and to a lesser extent Brazil and Argentina all underperformed....simple as that. Spain vs Holland in the WC final is hardly a changing of the guard.


    The South American Teams (Uruguay, Mexico, Paraguay, Argentina et al) were a delight to watch . On the other hand African teams & players need to be cognizant that they need the ball to work for them rather than them 'working & running with the ball' i.e relying on the individual sheer talent, pace & power to win matches. Ghana displayed that & but for Suarez who knows might have gone far. I think the performance of the African teams in Africa was one of the biggest disappointment of the WC

    As to suggesting that the beautiful game has suffered & deteriorated. I DISAGREE! In my blog I posted (Coppa del Mondo 2010: Un bel calcio - Il buono, il brutto, il cattivo) otherwise & share it here; As I have written before and will happily write again...I take nothing at all away from Spain...they were a deserving winner and the best team in South Africa. They are a great team, who played attractive football during a poor World Cup...They were one of the few bright spots I believe.
    If you believ this was a high quality World Cup we will have to agree to disagree



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  8. #248
    Champion goochy is on a distinguished road goochy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffc View Post
    In other soccer news, Canada is now ranked 100th in the world.
    And in a crazy twist of fate...after Englands lacklustre performance at the WC, they actually CLIMB the World Rankings to 7th...mostly due the the EVEN WORSE performances of Italy and France and Portugal who all tumble. Brazil are down 2 spots too...no prizes for guessing who the new number one is...can you guess nokids

    The big climbers up 10 spots to 6th...Uruguay!

  9. #249
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goochy View Post
    no prizes for guessing who the new number one is...can you guess nokids
    The country that's been crushing German dreams lately.
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  10. #250
    NFL Guru fundonny is on a distinguished road fundonny's Avatar
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    Somehow, I think German fans are okay and optimistic.
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  11. #251
    Need a Caddy golfinteg is on a distinguished road golfinteg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goochy View Post
    With all due respect golfinteg, I disagree with almost everything you write.
    Likewise, goochy regarding your response to my post. Please hear me out then with my general comments;

    1. Which team went out of the 2010 WC tournament but never lost a WC match?
    And had better 2010 WC stats than Italy?
    http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/t...978/index.html

    2. Japan defeated Denmark & Cameroon. Right?
    In a cracking game lost to Holland 0-1. Most pundits agree that If Japan had attacked from the beginning the outcome might have been different.

    Entering Group of 16 Japan lost to Paraguay (in PKs) on 1 Japanese penalty kick that hit crossbar.
    http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/t...819/index.html

    So Japan like US cannot compete with European teams especially England?

    3. Now regarding US on par with England. Did US topped the Group?
    http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/teams/t...942/index.html
    It will be helpful if you revisit US 2010 Confederation Cup record

    4. Regarding England.
    Entering 2010 WC tourney England was rated & hyped up to be in Last 8 (even to have a chance at winning the WC) and expected to be in an easy group ( i.e. to rollover even teams like US, Slovenia).
    England could not even defeat the artistic, creative & finesse (OK OK I'm going overboard here in comparison with the Spanish team) lowly ranked Algerians. Following that the British media (BBC, News like Times, Guardian etc) in a complete reversal of 'rating' slagged IMO a 'mediocre' England team. The overriding theme is that the English players were overhyped, their talents especially as a TEAM were overrated (couldn't even stringed a couple of passes etc.). The bottom line is that England was 'OUTED' by the talented Algerian TEAM. No?

    In the qualifying stage as per your reply, IMO England defeated a weakened Croatian (debilitated by key 'figures or injuries') in the same group, with England having an easy time with the minnows of Europe. Noting that England did not qualify for the 2008 Euro Cup essentially because they were defeated by Croatia then.

    P.S. The tabloid pic was following the US- England WC match. Would the media still have the same 'laugh' at the end of the group matches minding you that US topped the group.
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  12. #252
    Champion goochy is on a distinguished road goochy's Avatar
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    Hey golfinteg mate

    I do hear what you're saying. The English media and fans can be brutally hard on thier team with an often very unrealistic sense of expectation, but I still sense a bit of an anti-English bias to your reasoning.

    England are a decent team, with a decent pedigree and a good manager. I really do not think a top 8 finish should have been an unrealistic expectation for this England team and better considering the draw they got.

    But, they did not play especially well against a decent US team(I wouldn't put the USA in the same level as Japan, NZ, Algeria etc...they are much better) and the Algeria game was dire....one of the worst I have seen. Does this mean that I think Algeria are level on talent and ability with England...no, of course not. England should have won that game but just played really really poorly.

    Japan beat Denmark (hardly a European powerhouse) and Cameroon (again, hardly world beaters) and then tied with Paraguay. New Zealand, as I said earlier, played with great fortitude, but great talent????

    England are a good team who played poorly this World Cup. Italy were even more disappointing. Portugal, France and Brazil also disappointed. Does this mean I believe the other countries (japan etc) are better teams than those European teams, no. I think if those European teams had played to their potential, Spain would still probably have come out on top but the overall standard of the competition would have been greatly improved.

    England are not Spain....but they are better than Japan etc and the reason they got slated in the press is because they underperformed.

    Anyhow, I hope we can both agree the best footballing team won in the end

  13. #253
    Golf Padawan nokids is on a distinguished road nokids's Avatar
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    I still can't believe Spain won the world cup. Seriously!?? I thought Brazil would win it for sure. Spain winning the world cup is like San Jose Sharks winning the Stanley Cup, the Cubs winning the world series, the Chargers winning the Super Bowl, and Michelle Wii winning a major. It's still hard to believe the curse is over. Chokers no mas. The first Euro country to win a WC outside of Europe is Spain!

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  14. #254
    Need a Caddy golfinteg is on a distinguished road golfinteg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goochy View Post
    Hey golfinteg mate

    I do hear what you're saying. The English media and fans can be brutally hard on thier team with an often very unrealistic sense of expectation, but I still sense a bit of an anti-English bias to your reasoning.

    England are a decent team, with a decent pedigree and a good manager. I really do not think a top 8 finish should have been an unrealistic expectation for this England team and better considering the draw they got.

    But, they did not play especially well against a decent US team(I wouldn't put the USA in the same level as Japan, NZ, Algeria etc...they are much better) and the Algeria game was dire....one of the worst I have seen. Does this mean that I think Algeria are level on talent and ability with England...no, of course not. England should have won that game but just played really really poorly.

    Japan beat Denmark (hardly a European powerhouse) and Cameroon (again, hardly world beaters) and then tied with Paraguay. New Zealand, as I said earlier, played with great fortitude, but great talent????

    England are a good team who played poorly this World Cup. Italy were even more disappointing. Portugal, France and Brazil also disappointed. Does this mean I believe the other countries (japan etc) are better teams than those European teams, no. I think if those European teams had played to their potential, Spain would still probably have come out on top but the overall standard of the competition would have been greatly improved.

    England are not Spain....but they are better than Japan etc and the reason they got slated in the press is because they underperformed.

    Anyhow, I hope we can both agree the best footballing team won in the end
    No, not at all. Not more than a typical Welsh, Scot or Irish.

    Seriously, I just tell it like it is WFOF. Its just that I'm a proponent of Jogo Bonito or for that matter golf or any other international sports. .

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  15. #255
    Putter teetime is on a distinguished road
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokids View Post
    best world cup dive so far:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klu8qs8CZzg

  16. #256
    Must be Single Sakuraba is on a distinguished road Sakuraba's Avatar
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    I think they need to initiate an instant replay system for the next world cup. That would take some of the pressure off the referees, and might also curb the referee intimidation, the diving, and the bad sportsmanship.
    That said, I enjoyed this year's matches quite a bit.
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  17. #257
    Need a Caddy golfinteg is on a distinguished road golfinteg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuraba View Post
    I think they need to initiate an instant replay system for the next world cup. That would take some of the pressure off the referees, and might also curb the referee intimidation, the diving, and the bad sportsmanship.
    That said, I enjoyed this year's matches quite a bit.
    I'm also a proponent of individual WC players stats being compiled and ranked just like that of major North American Sports. The Capello Index comes to mind.
    http://www.capelloindex.com/
    Last edited by golfinteg; 05-05-2011 at 04:30 AM.
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