What do you think of Tiger now?

[fundonny]

Wonder if Tiger will get a new caddy... Elen might insist.

[Colby]

Wonder if Tiger will get a new caddy... Elen might insist.

Maybe Rosie...

Certainly not one of these...

http://www.theplatinumtees.com/caddies.php

[Kilroy]

LOL Yah, but it's a great saying as is.

[tmacgolf]

I too don't really see an option in the poll that I really feels fits for my thinking on this. I have always been a big fan of Tiger's and will continue to be in awe of his abilities. However, I feel a bit let down (I know this is probably a silly feeling for someone I have never and will never meet). I bought into the marketing of him and the image he portrayed. I too accepted the on course antics as a high level of competitiveness and drive, but also bought into the "good guy" image portrayed off the course. I bought the quiet, reserved and devoted family man spiel that I had been sold. I don't look up to athletes as role models, but am certainly drawn in to the notion that some people are given gifts and talents far beyond the average population. In this case I thought that this was an example of one of those humans who not only had amazing talent but was also very grounded, honest, and appreciative of all the gifts that this talent afforded him aka "a good guy". I'm not naive enough to expect that athletes, celebrities and "ordinary folk" won't make mistakes, but I feel lied to in this instance. Charles Barkley never claimed to be anything that he was not. Kobe was a priveldged phenom out of high school and "family man" was never a marketing angle for him. Tiger was different, or at least I was fooled by handlers to believe. Of course he will overcome this in terms of marketing and revenue and yes fans will forget, however, I think his agents are probably busy finding the angle and spin that will be used to build his new image from this point forward. I personally, will not be fooled again.

[SGH]

I like the angle of the following article:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...rticle1386228/

Suggests a lot of what's already been discussed on this board. He's hardly the first, and perhaps we as fans are a bit naive to think he would be any different. Not to say we should assume all athletes are unfaithful, but it may be wrong to assume they're any less likely to be than anyone else simply due to their deemed public accountability.

We, the general public, build up these people to such an unattainable level, and then seem surprised when something like this happens. I admit that I bought into the portrayal of Tiger, but on the other hand, I'm not utterly shocked or disappointed. My opinion of him will remain the same. I'll watch him when he plays golf, and hope he wins. At least when he's on the golf course, we're still witnessing something special.

[Hacker]

I'm getting a big kick out of the morality comparisons between Tiger and Phil. These are nothing more then weak attempts at trying to somehow put Phil on equal footing with Tiger.

When it comes to on-course accomplishments Phil pales in comparison to Tiger. When it comes to morality the story is different but I personally don't care.

I don't go around preaching about my morals or try to hold anyone else to my personal moral standards. Morality for me is a personal thing and it will always remain thus.

[3Jack]

When it comes to on-course accomplishments Phil pales in comparison to Tiger. When it comes to morality the story is different but I personally don't care.

As far as we know.

[Hacker]

As far as we know.

Fair enough

[jonf]

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it in this one. Everyone is passing judgement, but we still don't know what actually happened, or why it happened. Who knows at this point what drove Tiger to his 'transgressions.' We assume it's Tiger because, well, that's more interesting, but none of us have any idea what actually went on behind closed doors.

[tmacgolf]

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it in this one. Everyone is passing judgement, but we still don't know what actually happened, or why it happened. Who knows at this point what drove Tiger to his 'transgressions.' We assume it's Tiger because, well, that's more interesting, but none of us have any idea what actually went on behind closed doors.

You're right. For all we know his pregnant wife was suffering through her pregnancy and not in the mood for sex. What was he to do? Please.....
If he wasn't happy, he had options. Get a divorce, or, don't get married and have kids in the first place. I agree, we don't know what was going on in the house that may have caused this, but still, it does not excuse his actions. As always, he had choices, unfortunately he made the wrong choices and got caught. This "she asked for it" justification for poor life decisions is tired.

[jonf]

You're right. For all we know his pregnant wife was suffering through her pregnancy and not in the mood for sex. What was he to do? Please.....
If he wasn't happy, he had options. Get a divorce, or, don't get married and have kids in the first place. I agree, we don't know what was going on in the house that may have caused this, but still, it does not excuse his actions. As always, he had choices, unfortunately he made the wrong choices and got caught. This "she asked for it" justification for poor life decisions is tired.

And the "let's assume the worst when a famous person is involved" mentality is also quite tired.

How can anyone possibly pass judgement on this situation given the information that we currently have? Nobody knows what was going on...to simply presume that Tiger was in the wrong is irresponsible. Are there better ways to deal with a problem? Yes. But perhaps Tiger was trying to keep the marriage together for the sake of his children, but sought happiness elsewhere? Who knows? My point is, nobody should be passing judgement based on the tiny piece of info we have.


For what it's worth, I think it probably was all Tiger's fault. BUT, I'm not in a position to pass such intense personal judgement on him (as everyone else is doing), because I do not actually KNOW what happened. So, while I suspect that he has nobody to blame but himself, I'm not going to judge the man based on that assumption.

[tmacgolf]

And the "let's assume the worst when a famous person is involved" mentality is also quite tired.

How can anyone possibly pass judgement on this situation given the information that we currently have? Nobody knows what was going on...to simply presume that Tiger was in the wrong is irresponsible. Are there better ways to deal with a problem? Yes. But perhaps Tiger was trying to keep the marriage together for the sake of his children, but sought happiness elsewhere? Who knows? My point is, nobody should be passing judgement based on the tiny piece of info we have.


For what it's worth, I think it probably was all Tiger's fault. BUT, I'm not in a position to pass such intense personal judgement on him (as everyone else is doing), because I do not actually KNOW what happened. So, while I suspect that he has nobody to blame but himself, I'm not going to judge the man based on that assumption.

Regardless of what your intentions are, by playing devil's advocate, to prove a point, you are doing exactly what you are chastizing others for doing. However, instead of doing it to Tiger, you are doing it to his wife by making statements to the effect of, "Yes, he cheated, but perhaps she drove him to it". There is a lot more speculation in those comments, then many of the others on this site that are at least based on evidence that is out there. I realize you are just trying to prove a point about speculating, but it ends up the same as all the other posts. We don't know what led Tiger to do this. All we know now, based on the evidence that is out their, is that he did have "indescretions". He admitted this! Those are the only facts. Speculating why he did what he did is irrelevant. In his very cryptic and well scripted way, he admitted to the affairs. That is what people are passing judgement on. And, like it or not, when morality is the issue, people will make judgements. Trying to justifying it, for whatever reason, only fuels the debate.

[jonf]

Regardless of what your intentions are, by playing devil's advocate, to prove a point or not you are doing exactly what you are chastizing others for doing. By speculating that perhaps it is his wife that has issues at home that led Tiger to this, You are doing to her (probably inadvertently), exactly what others for doing to Tiger.

That is an absolutely preposterous line of reasoning. There is an infinite number of possible things that could have happened. I am not saying that any of the things I mentioned did or didn't happen. I am simply pointing out that, while everybody assumes one particular chain of events, there are, in reality, a plethora of alternatives. I am not trying to defend Tiger, I am trying to defend logic and good judgement. You don't conclude a trial based purely on the opening statements. You wait until all the evidence has been shown, and at that point, you come to a conclusion.

I would also say that I am not truly playing devil's advocate. I am playing "don't speak about that which you have know knowledge" advocate.

From what I actually KNOW of both individuals, I have no reason to believe they are anything but good people, with a few character flaws. I do not presume to know any more than that, and so I do not presume to be able to pass judgement on either of them.

We don't know what led Tiger to do this. All we know now, based on the evidence that is out their, is that he did have "indescretions". He admitted this! Those are the only facts. Speculating why he did what he did is irrelevant. In his very cryptic and well scripted way, he admitted to the affairs. That is what people are passing judgement on. And, like it or not, when morality is the issue, people will make judgements. Trying to justifying it, for whatever reason, only fuels the debate.

I am not trying to justify anything, as I don't even know what I'm trying to justify. I'm pointing out that we don't have enough information to pass judgement on anything. Perhaps Tiger's confession was a self sacrificing act designed to hide the truth, and maintain as much normalcy as possible. Perhaps he is jumping in front of the bullet, so to speak, to save his family. Such things have been known to happen.

As you have said, we have basically nothing upon which to judge. So STOP judging.

[Colby]

From the Golf Channel - http://www.thegolfchannel.com/golf-v...26000&rsec=207

[John]

Wow.

[nokids]

the only people you can safely idolize as role models are those who are dead. The living ones still have time to fall from grace.

[3Jack]

I think Whitlock is completely self aware in his latest article, and actually condemns himself along with the rest of the media - as evidenced by his constant use of 'we' when referring to the media.

[Colby]

People thought of Tiger as more of a role model because of the image that was portayed of him, either through his handlers or himself. Charity events, the First T program, all of the commercials that put this guy out in front of us as some sort of perfect entity. Fit, handsome, beuatiful wife, money galore, someone to be put on a pedestal and revered. And millions did. And now the fall from grace, and the eventual return to grace. It's something that America loves to do. Shot their heroes and then re-build them. Even Superman died.

[Chieflongtee]

[QUOTE=Colby;338500. Fit, handsome, beuatiful wife, .[/QUOTE]


Handsome I do not think so but I am no woman.Theyn all went nuts for Mick Jagger

Would she have been with him had he not been rich and famous???????

[nokids]

People thought of Tiger as more of a role model because of the image that was portayed of him, either through his handlers or himself. Charity events, the First T program, all of the commercials that put this guy out in front of us as some sort of perfect entity. Fit, handsome, beuatiful wife, money galore, someone to be put on a pedestal and revered. And millions did. And now the fall from grace, and the eventual return to grace. It's something that America loves to do. Shot their heroes and then re-build them. Even Superman died.

i can certainly understand everything you said. except for the "put on a pedestal and revered". he's like 31 years old, we have barely had a chance to know the guy. it's like reading a book halfway through and recommending it to your friends. why not wait until you've read the whole thing? it's like jumping on the Colts or Saints bandwagon because they're 11-0 thinking they're gonna win the superbowl. it's like the leafs winning two in a row and they start planning the parade.

[Colby]

i can certainly understand everything you said. except for the "put on a pedestal and revered". he's like 31 years old, we have barely had a chance to know the guy. it's like reading a book halfway through and recommending it to your friends. why not wait until you've read the whole thing? it's like jumping on the Colts or Saints bandwagon because they're 11-0 thinking they're gonna win the superbowl. it's like the leafs winning two in a row and they start planning the parade.

Are you serious? Tiger has been put on a pedestal and revered before he turned pro! I've been to tournaments where people are dressed like him and follow him around every hole. They wear the Tiger Wood collection of clothes right down to trying to match his red shirt on Sundays. Tournaments that do not have Tiger play are second-class affairs that attract weaker sponsors, have lower purses and have smaller amounts of TV viewers. Some have changed sponsors, or have disappeared completely. And if Tiger is in the field, his tee times are usually during prime time if that can be arranged and the commentators are always mentioning/showing Tiger even when he is out of contention.

I've felt Tiger is a self-centered, selfish person from the moment I first saw him live at the Skins game in California some years back, and everything that I have personally seen since then has simply confirmed that including the latest events. His golf game is fantastic, he however is a grade a jerk in my eyes.

[Big Johnny69]

I'll be honest, I haven't read every post in this thread so this might've been already said.

I don't care what Tiger does off the course. I've never really had an opinion about what type of person Tiger is. I'm not a personal friend so this means nothing to me. Do I enjoy watching him on the course. Absolutely. He could end up being the greatest "golfer" of all-time. We already know he won't be the greatest "person" of all-time.

[Hearzy]

I'll be honest, I haven't read every post in this thread so this might've been already said.

I don't care what Tiger does off the course. I've never really had an opinion about what type of person Tiger is. I'm not a personal friend so this means nothing to me. Do I enjoy watching him on the course. Absolutely. He could end up being the greatest "golfer" of all-time. We already know he won't be the greatest "person" of all-time.

I agree with Johnny. Who cares what happens off the course. I enjoy watching him on TV when he is playing golf. I dont know him, and will never know him, only through a TV screen and maybe walking by if I ever go see the PGA live. lol...
This is brings me to another point... All those magazines, tv shows like... Entertainment Tonight... and is there one called Starz?.... Who wants to watch someone elses life stories and problems? I think people have enough problems to deal with than worrying about somebody elses. They are just like you and I. Just have much more money. Everyone makes mistakes.
This does not change my opinion of him at all. He is still one of the best ever and the best of the current time. Give it a year and everyone will forget.

[macspesh]

I'll be honest, I haven't read every post in this thread so this might've been already said.

I don't care what Tiger does off the course. I've never really had an opinion about what type of person Tiger is. I'm not a personal friend so this means nothing to me. Do I enjoy watching him on the course. Absolutely. He could end up being the greatest "golfer" of all-time. We already know he won't be the greatest "person" of all-time.

Amen to that!
Not sure what's worse, prying into his personal life, or expecting for some reason that the public is owed an answer.

[tmacgolf]

i can certainly understand everything you said. except for the "put on a pedestal and revered". he's like 31 years old, we have barely had a chance to know the guy. it's like reading a book halfway through and recommending it to your friends. why not wait until you've read the whole thing? it's like jumping on the Colts or Saints bandwagon because they're 11-0 thinking they're gonna win the superbowl. it's like the leafs winning two in a row and they start planning the parade.

That might be a bit of a sad way to go through life. Never taking advantage of the good that is happening or living in the moment. Do you only watch the final putt of a golf tournament before deciding who to cheer for? Was it not fun to watch Tom Watson's run this summer? He didn't win, but I'm glad I was along for the ride. What about that kid in Kemptville who raised all that money for the wells in Africa. He was only 13, so I guess we shouldn't have praised him until he reaches 50.

[nokids]

Found some juicy quotes about idols:

Even the people we most admire often feel inadequate.
-Andrew Matthews

Idolatry is really not good for anyone. Not even the idols.
-John Bach

There is not a more unhappy being than a superannuated idol
-Joseph Addison

We all have idols. Play like anyone you care about but try to be yourself while you're doing so.
-B. B. King

[tmacgolf]

Found some juicy quotes about idols:

Even the people we most admire often feel inadequate.
-Andrew Matthews

Idolatry is really not good for anyone. Not even the idols.
-John Bach

There is not a more unhappy being than a superannuated idol
-Joseph Addison

We all have idols. Play like anyone you care about but try to be yourself while you're doing so.
-B. B. King

I found some quotes too!

"I think it's an honor to be a role model to one person or maybe more than that. If you are given a chance to be a role model, I think you should always take it because you can influence a person's life in a positive light, and that's what I want to do. That's what it's all about.”
Tiger Woods

"Honestly, I think I can be better. My marriage is only going to help me. I found a person I can talk to and a person who is going to be by my side through thick and thin. Elin has instilled a lot of confidence in me in all aspects of my life."
Tiger Woods

[nokids]

I found some quotes too!

"I think it's an honor to be a role model to one person or maybe more than that. If you are given a chance to be a role model, I think you should always take it because you can influence a person's life in a positive light, and that's what I want to do. That's what it's all about.”
Tiger Woods

"Honestly, I think I can be better. My marriage is only going to help me. I found a person I can talk to and a person who is going to be by my side through thick and thin. Elin has instilled a lot of confidence in me in all aspects of my life."
Tiger Woods

well. that is .. uh. . interesting.... let's see, how can i spin this?

you have a point that Tiger lied to you (his supporters). those statements are a far cry from the actions of Tiger Woods. but superstar athletes are like politicians, they will always say the politically correct things when talking to the public. what do you expect him to say "I dont want to be a role model, quit immitating me". Maybe that's how he really feels but Tiger has no choice but to say what he is supposed to say. he's a puppet/slave to the Tiger Woods image. he can't say anything that will stirr feathers or he'll lose millions. How about if he said in public "marriage is a joke, i should be able to have as many girls on the side as i want". He would get grilled.

Judging by his actions, Tiger Woods obviously thinks it's ok to cheat. That makes him a pretty crummy guy on a personal level. Prior to this scandal I had no idea if he was loyal or not. And that's my point, his fans should not have assumed that he was loyal to his wife, or a great guy because he said the right things. They all say the right things.

[tmacgolf]

They all say the right things.

Not all.....



I don't care what people think. people are stupid.
Charles Barkley

I'm not a role model... Just because I dunk a basketball doesn't mean I should raise your kids.
Charles Barkley


And my personal favourite.....
These are my new shoes. They're good shoes. They won't make you rich like me, they won't make you rebound like me, they definitely won't make you handsome like me. They'll only make you have shoes like me. That's it.
Charles Barkley


There was no question with Barkley that what you see is what you get.

[Shivas Irons]

And my personal favourite.....
These are my new shoes. They're good shoes. They won't make you rich like me, they won't make you rebound like me, they definitely won't make you handsome like me. They'll only make you have shoes like me. That's it.
Charles Barkley

Classic