which sports debate is the most tiresome?

[nokids]

I always try & make the following argument, which tends to anger many out there. More people play basketball globally than hockey, golf and tennis combined. That's why I say Jordan is the greatest. He had to be greater than millions (maybe hundreds of millions) more players than Federer did. You will notice I kept soccer out of it.

in that case, that Jamaican guy who runs the fastest 100meters is the greatest athlete in the history of the world because everyone on the planet runs.

[jeffc]

There is an ignore option if we have become 'tiresome'

then what would I do for entertainment

[Strangebrew]

I always try & make the following argument, which tends to anger many out there. More people play basketball globally than hockey, golf and tennis combined. That's why I say Jordan is the greatest. He had to be greater than millions (maybe hundreds of millions) more players than Federer did. You will notice I kept soccer out of it.

when did basketball become a global sport?

[Hacker]

in that case, that Jamaican guy who runs the fastest 100meters is the greatest athlete in the history of the world because everyone on the planet runs.

Point of clarification..........I do NOT run

[3Jack]

One slight flaw in that logic.......all of Jacks FCs were using the same technology in their balsl. It's not like Jack was playing against guys who were using Pro V1s.

Actually, the Macgregor ball that Jack was contractually tied too at the time was significantly inferior to the other balls in use at the time, and everyone knew it. The Macgregor ball would go out of round in as few as one strike.

[Sakuraba]

in that case, that Jamaican guy who runs the fastest 100meters is the greatest athlete in the history of the world because everyone on the planet runs.

Thats a valid point. He is a great athlete.

[Hacker]

Actually, the Macgregor ball that Jack was contractually tied too at the time was significantly inferior to the other balls in use at the time, and everyone knew it. The Macgregor ball would go out of round in as few as one strike.

Fair enough, but Jack still chose to use that ball. This is almost akin to saying that FIGJAM could have won more majors if he would have played it safe and not hit driver off of every tee or gone for every pin - all conscious decisions made by each player..........why you wouldn't give yourself the absolute BEST possible chance of winning?? I guess we should really be factoring in intelligence when we talk about what goes into making a player great.

Great fact on Jack though, I didn't know that

[nokids]

Point of clarification..........I do NOT run

how about: everyone on the planet has tried to run at some time in their life.

[rezadue]

Megan Fox vs. Angelina Jolie

[Hacker]

how about: everyone on the planet has tried to run at some time in their life.

That I can support

[3Jack]

Fair enough, but Jack still chose to use that ball. This is almost akin to saying that FIGJAM could have won more majors if he would have played it safe and not hit driver off of every tee or gone for every pin - all conscious decisions made by each player..........why you wouldn't give yourself the absolute BEST possible chance of winning?? I guess we should really be factoring in intelligence when we talk about what goes into making a player great.

Great fact on Jack though, I didn't know that

It is interesting isn't it - Jack being tied to an inferior ball through an equipment deal - not sure why he didn't void the contract by playing something better at the time. Here's more background...

Frank Thomas, a former South African recently retired from the United States Golf Association after 26 years in the position of technical director.

Thomas developed and directed one of the most respected research and testing teams in golf and was responsible for having set the International Equipment Standards (IES), designed to protect the game, and which govern balls and clubs for the multi-billion dollar equipment industry.

Thomas is now working as technical advisor to the Golf Digest magazine.


Nicklaus, of course, is a great advocate of “reigning in the ball” to preserve the integrity of the game and, interviewed by Dale Hayes, Thomas revealed that he and his team had on occasion actually taken balls from the great man’s own stock for testing.


What they found defies belief. Far from getting an advantage from the MacGregor balls he was using, Nicklaus was, in fact, playing with one of the poorer balls tested.


Technicians found that the balls were often not spherical, that they did not go as far as some others and that they displayed quite serious deflection – in other words when hit by the “Iron Byron” machine developed to give a uniform strike they would fly either to the right or left and not end in a nice tight cluster.

[Hacker]

It is interesting isn't it - Jack being tied to an inferior ball through an equipment deal - not sure why he didn't void the contract by playing something better at the time. Here's more background...

Frank Thomas, a former South African recently retired from the United States Golf Association after 26 years in the position of technical director.

Thomas developed and directed one of the most respected research and testing teams in golf and was responsible for having set the International Equipment Standards (IES), designed to protect the game, and which govern balls and clubs for the multi-billion dollar equipment industry.

Thomas is now working as technical advisor to the Golf Digest magazine.


Nicklaus, of course, is a great advocate of “reigning in the ball” to preserve the integrity of the game and, interviewed by Dale Hayes, Thomas revealed that he and his team had on occasion actually taken balls from the great man’s own stock for testing.


What they found defies belief. Far from getting an advantage from the MacGregor balls he was using, Nicklaus was, in fact, playing with one of the poorer balls tested.


Technicians found that the balls were often not spherical, that they did not go as far as some others and that they displayed quite serious deflection – in other words when hit by the “Iron Byron” machine developed to give a uniform strike they would fly either to the right or left and not end in a nice tight cluster.

I find that incredible. How is that not common knowledge? I grew up idolizing Jack he is still my Father's favorite golfer yet I'd never heard of this before....

[3Jack]

I find that incredible. How is that not common knowledge? I grew up idolizing Jack he is still my Father's favorite golfer yet I'd never heard of this before....

This excerpt was pulled from a story published in 2002, but it really hasn't had much play, although if you google 'Frank Thomas Macgregor ball Nicklaus', you'll get many instances returned.

I grew up with Jack still in his prime in the 70s, and always called him my favorite - Tiger is now my favorite, and I still think he's fantastic and will break Jack's records. It's amazing though to think had Jack played a ball other than the Macgregor Tourney during the 70s how many of those second place finishes in majors would have been wins. We can only speculate.

[3Jack]

More on the inferior Macgregor ball from Golf Week.

[Hacker]

Thanks

[tmacgolf]

I didn't know that about Jack's golf balls either. Very interesting. Did he have a lot of shots go off target during rounds? Was he aware at the time the he was playing with inferiour equipment?
Also, in keeping with the theme of the thread....
Gretzky, Jordan, and Joe Montanna in their respective sports.