Tiger WOW!!!

[Colby]

I don't know if you are talking about me, however I have never said that he is not a good golfer, I have always maintained that I do not like him personally as I feel his attitude towards his fans stink. If you treat people like crap and give millions away and you are a good golfer, you are still a jerk in my eyes. I've played with scratch golfers who are jerks and will never play with again. I have played with 35+ handicap golfers who I would play with again in an instant. A good golfer does not equal a good person.

Tiger earns his money, he can do what he wants with it, I don't really care about that.

Tiger gives millions every year to his foundation:

1 - Rainforest Foundation
2 - Tiger Wood Foundation
3 - Tiger Wood Learning Center

It is not up to Jim Brown, you or me to decide where he should gives his money. I would say all the golfers have their charities that they support. What I don't understand is people cutting his plays or talents because they don't like him. It makes no sense. He is the best golfers and has been for the last 10 years... if somebody doesn't like him it is OK but everybody has to agree he is the best player today!

[Hacker]

I don't know if you are talking about me, however I have never said that he is not a good golfer, I have always maintained that I do not like him personally as I feel his attitude towards his fans stink. If you treat people like crap and give millions away and you are a good golfer, you are still a jerk in my eyes. I've played with scratch golfers who are jerks and will never play with again. I have played with 35+ handicap golfers who I would play with again in an instant. A good golfer does not equal a good person.

Tiger earns his money, he can do what he wants with it, I don't really care about that.

I'm still trying to figure out how your intense dislike of the most popular athlete on the planet is related to the putt that he made on #17 or the approach shot he hit on #18......but I guess once you're a hater you're always a hater and you will continue to voice said hatred whether it is on topic or not

No need to reply Colby, everyone knows where you stand on this

[Indio]

I have always maintained that I do not like him personally as I feel his attitude towards his fans stink.

I take it he refused to sign your $50 Nike hat at one of his Canadian stops???

[DIbit]

People should not take what Tiger does on and off the course personally..
I don't care if he doesn't sign hats and ignores people... I just want to see him hit great shots, win tournaments and break records!
When I take my kids to see Tiger play live, I'm going to tell them that this is how he is.. and he wins!!! He's not there to make fans, shake hands and entertain us.. he just wants to win.. and regardless what he does.. he will still be the best and even if he loses fans, there are a lot more fans that love him then hate him.
If we watch him live, and he drops an 'F-bomb' and my 3 little kids hear that loud and clear.. I will say that it is not right, but that's Tiger.. he expects the best on every shot. So,, unless you can beat Tiger ..then you can swear on a course...
What we are witnessing is a perhaps the best Golfer ever....

[3Jack]

It's bloody easy for any rich dude, through sport, entertainment, or business, who is in the public eye to throw dough at some charity.

What's different about Tiger is through his learning center is he is actively involved in giving people an opportunity they would not normally have.

I'm not saying he's unique in this, but geez, Jim Brown should shut his yap and educate himself before he goes shooting his mouth off.

[3Jack]

On signing autographs...

In the last few events I have been to at which Tiger and Phil have both been there, I have seen the both sign, and I have seen them both move along without signing. Same goes for Mike Weir.

What we sometimes forget is that these guys are actual humans with commitments, be it to practice, to working out, to media, and yes, even to family.

Phil is certainly more engaging with the crowds, but some find his personality to be phony.
Tiger needs to be more locked in concentration than does Phil, and some see this as giving his fans the finger.

Mike Weir is hardly a lovable showman out there either. Having been up close and personal inside the ropes at an exhibition with he and Vijay a few years back in PEI, I could easily rail against him for being as *ly as a porcupine.

But for each individual, they are how their personalities dictate them to be. Some guys can only play well when they are talking all the time - we all know them and have played with them. Some guys are like pieces of wood, you might as well be partnered with a 2x4.

Back in the day, I was no fan of Wayne Gretzky. Thought he chirped too much to the refs, much like Sidney Crosby does now. Never once though did I concern myself with what Gretzky did off the ice, how he treated his fans, or how much money he gave away. We just weren't exposed to it - no Twitter, no digital cameras, no 24x7 media.

Looking back on it, I do appreciate Gretzky's talent, and I am happy to say I lived in the era when I was able to watch him play. Maybe those out there who aren't keen on Tiger now will have a similar revelation as mine was to Gretzky in 20 years.

Then again, maybe not.

[Colby]

I take it he refused to sign your $50 Nike hat at one of his Canadian stops???

Not me, I spent 4 days on his escort group in the rain at Westchester Country Club during the Buick. I have no interest in his autograph and never asked for it.

[Colby]

I'm still trying to figure out how your intense dislike of the most popular athlete on the planet is related to the putt that he made on #17 or the approach shot he hit on #18......but I guess once you're a hater you're always a hater and you will continue to voice said hatred whether it is on topic or not

No need to reply Colby, everyone knows where you stand on this

You are correct, my statement had nothing to do with his putt or approach shot. It had to do with your statement that he is the BEST GOLFER EVER. On a pure skill level, that may be true even taking the change in equipment over the last several years that has changed the game dramatically. That will be endlessly debated until the next big one comes along and breaks all of Tiger's records.

And I certainly don't hate the man, that's a little strong, I simply feel that to be the best golfer is more than being a robot to the corporate string pullers that limit his actions, and I hope it's that and not his personality. I can't say who I feel is the best golfer because I don't know all of the details. Somehow I don't think Tiger is going to write back to some kid who asked him if he should change from left-handed to right-handed like Jack did for Mike Weir. How many other letters were personally answered by Jack, Arnie, Sam or any of the others? What would Bobby Jones have done in golf if he had kept playing and turned pro? The answers to those questions will probably never be known.

The debate will continue, and others will come after to muddy the waters further. I don't feel Tiger has or will ever earn the title of Best Golfer Ever. Maybe the most skilled, and if skill is the sole component of your definition, that certainly is true of the golfers who are playing today and possibly of those who have played in the past and Tiger would be considered the best. However skill is only one attribute of a good golfer for me. Sportsmanship, how a person handles themselves on the course, how they treat their fans, all of that plays a part. Tiger certainly has the skill and usually has the sportsmanship part down pat. Dropping his clubs as well as f-bombs and treating his fans like crap just turns me off of the guy. Simply put, I have no respect for him because of it.

[Hacker]

The debate will continue, and others will come after to muddy the waters further. I don't feel Tiger has or will ever earn the title of Best Golfer Ever. Maybe the most skilled, and if skill is the sole component of your definition, that certainly is true of the golfers who are playing today and possibly of those who have played in the past and Tiger would be considered the best. However skill is only one attribute of a good golfer for me. Sportsmanship, how a person handles themselves on the course, how they treat their fans, all of that plays a part. Tiger certainly has the skill and usually has the sportsmanship part down pat. Dropping his clubs as well as f-bombs and treating his fans like crap just turns me off of the guy. Simply put, I have no respect for him because of it.

OK, so the root of our differing opinions is that you include factors other than those directly relating to playing the game of golf when you are determining who is the "Greatest Golfer" and I don't as in my opinion how you treat others, what you do with your time, how you spend your money has no bearing at all on your accomplishments on the golf course, the playing field, the court or the ice. Barry Bonds has always been a complete jerk in the way he treats the press, his teammates and his fans but that in no way detracts from his feats on the field.

The list of superstar athletes or sports figures who have been total jerks when not playing the game is long and illustrious (Terrel Owens, Mike Vick, Kobe Bryant, Lawrence Taylor, Ron Artest, Bobby Knight, Tonya Harding, Mike Tyson, Ummm OJ Simpson) but IMO has nothing to do with their actual sporting accomplishments. Now none of these folks, Tiger included, would get my vote for Man of the Year but that is a whole different story....

[Colby]

Agreed, which is why I cheer against all of those individuals, hoping that that others do better than them.

[sensfan63]

The list of superstar athletes or sports figures who have been total jerks when not playing the game is long and illustrious (Terrel Owens, Mike Vick, Kobe Bryant, Lawrence Taylor, Ron Artest, Bobby Knight, Tonya Harding, Mike Tyson, Ummm OJ Simpson) but IMO has nothing to do with their actual sporting accomplishments. Now none of these folks, Tiger included, would get my vote for Man of the Year but that is a whole different story....

Geez, Tiger curses a little and now he's linked with these athletes? Murderers, rapists, etc? Really?

[Hacker]

Geez, Tiger curses a little and now he's linked with these athletes? Murderers, rapists, etc? Really?

I'm not the one who thinks that Tiger is a jerk, I was providing examples of athletes who ARE jerks as a basis of comparison....

As for the cursing, I'm sure that every pro golfer out there swears from time to time.....it just so happens that Tiger is the most popular player on tour so the cameras are ALWAYS on him.

[sensfan63]

I'm not the one who thinks that Tiger is a jerk, I was providing examples of athletes who ARE jerks as a basis of comparison....

As for the cursing, I'm sure that every pro golfer out there swears from time to time.....it just so happens that Tiger is the most popular player on tour so the cameras are ALWAYS on him.

yeah I know you were the one defending him. Colby has the full-on hate going, that's for sure.

Never knew that one's (perceived) sportsmanship had anything to do with being the greatest of all time in one's sport. I wouldn't call Michael Jordan the absolute classiest guy in the world, either.

[BC MIST]

As for the cursing, I'm sure that every pro golfer out there swears from time to time.....it just so happens that Tiger is the most popular player on tour so the cameras are ALWAYS on him.

No doubt that he is the best player overall, perhaps the most influential player, sadly, when it comes to pace of play and how to conduct oneself on the course, and he ranks right up there with Steve Pate and Pat Perez regarding the use of offensive language, but the "most popular player?" Excellent use of hyperbole.

[Hacker]

No doubt that he is the best player overall, perhaps the most influential player, sadly, when it comes to pace of play and how to conduct oneself on the course, and he ranks right up there with Steve Pate and Pat Perez regarding the use of offensive language, but the "most popular player?" Excellent use of hyperbole.

Give me a break Lyle!!

Woods is by far the most popular golfer out there today. TV ratings fell a whopping 46.8 percent in the tournaments he missed due to his injury in 2008, how can you possibly discount that?? Check out some more detailed stats in this article from Sports Business News http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/63701

.......but why stop at golfers, I could say that he's the most popular athlete and it wouldn't be a far stretch.

But don't take my word for it how about we do a little searching:

http://www.unlockedsports.com/blog/popular-athletes/top-6-popular-athletes-according-to-google.html

OK, it's only based on google searches, so what? Right?

How about a Harris Poll?? http://www.unlockedsports.com/blog/p...to-google.html

Seems like saying that Tiger Woods is NOT the most popular golfer today is better use of hyperbole than I could ever dream of. I might suggest that you put down your dictionary and actually check on a few facts before you go slinging stones.

[jonf]

Fact - Tiger Woods is definitely the most popular golfer.

Fact - Tiger Woods is definitely the most unpopular golfer.

[Hacker]

Fact - Tiger Woods is definitely the most popular golfer.

Fact - Tiger Woods is definitely the most unpopular golfer.

Care to back up the second statement?

[SGH]

I'd have to agree. I think more people cheer for or cheer against Tiger than any other golfer. Which would make him the most and least popular. Then again, if you define popularity as encompassing both negative and positive attention, then he is without a doubt the most popular.

[iggsplode]

I'd have to agree. I think more people cheer for or cheer against Tiger than any other golfer. Which would make him the most and least popular. Then again, if you define popularity as encompassing both negative and positive attention, then he is without a doubt the most popular.

well said, thats exactly how i interpretted it, and agree with as well.. i know plenty of people who love tiger as well as plenty of people who dislike him. i can't say i can think of another single golfer with as many haters as tiger.

[Hacker]

I'm not saying that there aren't haters out there, this forum proves that there are.....I'd just like to see some sort of data to back up the claims of how large this group of haters is.

I get that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but making "claims" about how popular or unpopular that Tiger or anyone else is without substantiating data isn't having an opinion it is making a baseless claim. Which IMO, makes it worthless.

Opinions are opinions, there are people who opine ever year that the Toronto Maple Leafs will win ths Stanley Cup..........any opinion, my included, plus a buck seventy will get you a large double, double and that's about it.

I love the passion here, I just wish that people make an attempt to back up their claims from time to time. </rant>

[Chambokl]

Hacker, you are 100% right.... believe me, it is not even close. Tiger is the most popular golfer by far... Amongst golfer there is a few haters but for the golfer who don't really follow golf almost 100% love Tiger... I don't think I can name 5 people that hate Tiger...

Believe me, Nike wouldn't pay him millions of $$ because most people hate him. They were quite fast cutting Vick off the payroll...

[spackler]

I love the passion here, I just wish that people make an attempt to back up their claims from time to time. </rant>

And I wish that it was less important to so many people what others think about Tiger or Phil or whomever. Great, have an opinion on Tiger, but why would anyone care whether I like Tiger or that Colby doesn't? You can state your case, but to take personally someone's feelings over a person most people on this forum will never meet, a person who has next to zero actual impact on our lives, I don't get it.

[Hacker]

And I wish that it was less important to so many people what others think about Tiger or Phil or whomever. Great, have an opinion on Tiger, but why would anyone care whether I like Tiger or that Colby doesn't? You can state your case, but to take personally someone's feelings over a person most people on this forum will never meet, a person who has next to zero actual impact on our lives, I don't get it.

I dislike baseless statements that are made as if they are statements of fact or offered up as a reason for a personal opinion - for whatever reason these types of statements tend to come out in threads like this.

I really could care less about Tiger haters, Leaf lovers etc. but if you are going to take the time to engage in a debate and disagree with others at least make an effort......it's really a matter of principle with me.

[spackler]

I dislike baseless statements that are made as if they are statements of fact or offered up as a reason for a personal opinion - for whatever reason these types of statements tend to come out in threads like this.

I really could care less about Tiger haters, Leaf lovers etc. but if you are going to take the time to engage in a debate and disagree with others at least make an effort......it's really a matter of principle with me.

You started this thread by claiming Tiger was the "best golfer ever" and never made an attempt to back it up. Other people chimed in with opinions, opinions that you apparently find 'baseless' because they differ from your own unsubstantiated claim. Instead of just simply disagreeing, you accuse them of being 'haters'. I am having a hard time believing that all you really want is a higher form of debate.

[Hacker]

You started this thread by claiming Tiger was the "best golfer ever" and never made an attempt to back it up. Other people chimed in with opinions, opinions that you apparently find 'baseless' because they differ from your own unsubstantiated claim. Instead of just simply disagreeing, you accuse them of being 'haters'. I am having a hard time believing that all you really want is a higher form of debate.

What you believe isn't really a concern of mine but since you brought it up I've provided lots of justification for my 'statements'. Whether it was prooffered or not is irrelevant, that fact is I've substantiated my comments and I've invited others to do the same.

What I 'want' is an example that isn't based solely on negative personal feelings....I didn't mean to accuse anyone of anything, their stated feelings say it all no need for me to make any accusations

[jonf]

What you believe isn't really a concern of mine but since you brought it up I've provided lots of justification for my 'statements'. Whether it was prooffered or not is irrelevant, that fact is I've substantiated my comments and I've invited others to do the same.

What I 'want' is an example that isn't based solely on negative personal feelings....I didn't mean to accuse anyone of anything, their stated feelings say it all no need for me to make any accusations

But negative personal feelings are exactly what we're talking about when we're discussing whether someone is popular or unpopular. You can't simply ignore the fact that people don't like Tiger, because that's what is at issue. I can tell you that 100% of golf viewers in my household cheer against Tiger. Based on that sample, he is the most unpopular golfer.

Hell, the number of people responding to this thread (and the fact that there are 300 identical back-and-forth, bickering threads on this forum), should be an indication of the polarising nature of Tiger. Yes, millions love him. But millions love to hate him.

You cited the drop in viewership as proof of Tiger's popularity. But, the quality of the broadcasts dropped immensely during that period as well. Who wants to listen to commentators jabber on for 4 days about a player who isn't even in the field? That was enough for me to turn my tv off despite the fact the golf was in many ways more exciting (less predictable). I'm not saying that there weren't people who became disinterested because of Tiger's absence, but to ignore that there were other reasons for that drop in viewership would be very shortsighted.

[Indio]

I predict a short life span for this thread

[spackler]

What you believe isn't really a concern of mine but since you brought it up I've provided lots of justification for my 'statements'. Whether it was prooffered or not is irrelevant, that fact is I've substantiated my comments and I've invited others to do the same.

What I 'want' is an example that isn't based solely on negative personal feelings....I didn't mean to accuse anyone of anything, their stated feelings say it all no need for me to make any accusations

Where in this thread did you substantiate your original statement that Tiger is the best golfer ever? You offered some circumstantial evidence that he is the most popular golfer currently on tour, but popularity does not equal accomplishment.

That said, you have been on this forum long enough to realise what kind of a response a 'Tiger is the best golfer ever' statement will bring. Plenty of people disagree with that statement, and they're allowed to. It's not provable, it's a subjective opinion. Even if you had tried to back up your original statement, that doesn't excuse calling people you disagree with 'haters'. It's silly and basically just baiting the kind of response you are say you are offended by.

[Hacker]

Jon the TV numbers show a very strong correlation between viewership and Tiger's participation - when Tiger plays, more people tune in period not refutable. When Tiger isn't playing the nuber of households tuning in goes down - it is a fact. You have argued that millions lover Tiger and millions dislike him.....if these two camps were more or less than same size would it not stand to reason that viewership should NOT be influenced in any way by Tiger's participation?? Tiger is out, those who dislike him watch. Tiger is in, those who dislike him don't watch.

Come to think of it, viewership should actually be up when Tiger is out since the millions and millions that dislike him would be watching in addition to those of us who like him....

[Indio]

careful Hacker, me thinks your being setup here buddy......