Crosby - 400 points in 292 games

[nokids]

well, when i say i hate crosby, what i'm really saying is i love to cheer against him.

[knickers]

Again, you use this as a convinient stat. Dats is what? 31, Crosby 22? Crosby has played for 5 years, Dats 8. Crosby played for some brutal teams for the first couple of years, Dats has played for nothing but very good to excellent teams his whole career and has benefitted from a strong defensive team with a hall of fame D-man. Players on better teams will always have better +/-. That's the facts, jack.

Well said. Also Jason Spezza must also be a defensive specialist too ? 6 years +73. Crosby would be 30 GMs honest and obvious choice every time. Sometime the best defence is offence.

[nokids]

Well said. Also Jason Spezza must also be a defensive specialist too ? 6 years +73. Crosby would be 30 GMs honest and obvious choice every time. Sometime the best defence is offence.

Did i say any hockey player with a high +/- is a defensive specialist? I said Datsyuk is a defensive specialist AND look at his +/- which supports that arguement. You have to look at the player play the game, not just look at a stat sheet. I watch Crosby as much as I watch the Wings. That's why I am qualifed to talk on the subject. Plus I have over a thousand posts on here. I rest my case.

[Chambokl]

this thread is about the greatness of Sidney Crosby. I was discussing something relevant to the topic, you're not.

Actually you didn't discuss much about how good Crosby is but kept repeating that Datsiuk is best +/- guy ever...

You are doing a disservice to Datsiuk... he is a really good complete player... just not in Crosby's class (but close). When you argue while wearing your heart on your sleeve you are not being objective...

* You have said you hate Crosby
* You have said you love Datsiuk

** Nobody else has mention they love or hate players...

[knickers]

do you want me to pull out the stats for you again?

Seems to me you are using stats to back your arguments as well.

[jeffc]

Did i say any hockey player with a high +/- is a defensive specialist? I said Datsyuk is a defensive specialist AND look at his +/- which supports that arguement. You have to look at the player play the game, not just look at a stat sheet. I watch Crosby as much as I watch the Wings. That's why I am qualifed to talk on the subject. Plus I have over a thousand posts on here. I rest my case.

what does having over 1000 posts on here have to do with anything? I have over 4000. what does that make me?

[mberube]

this thread is about the greatness of Sidney Crosby. I was discussing something relevant to the topic, you're not.

Not really. This thread was to mention what Sid has accomplished compared to his peers and compared to all players in all eras. You hijacked the thread mentioning that Dats was a better player.

Look at post #4 and then #79. These posts were not to compare but to state an accomplishment.

[nokids]

As a Red Wings fan, it's my duty to bash Crosby whenever I see people drooling over him. Ok I'm not going to bash him, but I am going to say what I think of him.

He is a very talented hockey prodigy, bred since he was a fetus to play hockey, drafted by a god-aweful club, and he's been the #1 guy for 5 years now. I'm not saying he doesn't have skill, he's got world class skills, he is in my top 10 of best hockey players today; however people need to stop judging players by their point totals without looking at the overall picture. Crosby gets his points because he and Malkin were the only good players for the Pens all these years. He had the majority of ice time on even strength, he plays more time on the PP than anybody besides Malkin, and he rarely does any penalty killing. He is basically just an offensive tool for the Penguins. As an offensive player, he is arguable 2nd or 3rd best player in the league between himself, Ovie and Malkin.

But now that the Pens are getting better as a team. Will Crosby follow in the footsteps of Gretzky and play casual defense while focusing on scoring, or will he go the way of Yzerman and set the example on the PK, sacrifice his numbers for the good of the team? There are two players I'd pick over Crosby at this point in time: Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Both could put up Crosby type numbers if they didn't have to spend most of their time defending their net on the PK.

Let's look at last year as an example: Crosby averaged 5.5 minutes on the PP last year during the regular season. Pavel Datsyuk had 3.5 minutes on the PP per game. That's an amazing difference in minutes!!!! What are the results: Crosby had 7 goals, 33 assists = 40 pts on the PP. Datsyuk had 11 goals, 25 assists = 36 pts on the PP. They basically have almost the same amount of points even though Datsyuk had 160 minutes less time on the PP.

I wonder how much scoring Crosby would be doing if he actually had to exert effort into taking care of his defensive zone. His +/- would certainly be better than a +3. How do you score 103 pts in a season and end up with a +3??? That's some lazy Ovechkin-like defense right there. He even had a great goalie like Fleury to bail him out yet still barely comes out even. Datsyuk has a +34 and his last line of defense is Chris Osbad.

I hope I wasn't too hard on Mr. Crosby. I do think he deserves praise for all he's accomplished but there are other players doing the dirty jobs that win championships who dont get praised, and I'd like people to remember about them as well.

Post #3 sums up exactly how i feel about Crosby. If you disagree with any of it, highlight what you disagree with and state your case.

[jeffc]

Post #3 sums up exactly how i feel about Crosby. If you disagree with any of it, highlight what you disagree with and state your case.

[nokids]

Not really. This thread was to mention what Sid has accomplished compared to his peers and compared to all players in all eras. You hijacked the thread mentioning that Dats was a better player.

i didn't realize that by putting his accomplishments into perspective with examples of other players and trying to understand how he got those stats was hijacking the thread. i love debating these dumb things, to the chagrin of Jeff and Chambokl.

[nokids]

what does having over 1000 posts on here have to do with anything? I have over 4000. what does that make me?

1000 posts makes me 'knowledgable'. 4000 posts means your keyboard has diarrhea.

[knickers]

As a Red Wings fan, it's my duty to bash Crosby whenever I see people drooling over him. Ok I'm not going to bash him, but I am going to say what I think of him.

He is a very talented hockey prodigy, bred since he was a fetus to play hockey, drafted by a god-aweful club, and he's been the #1 guy for 5 years now. I'm not saying he doesn't have skill, he's got world class skills, he is in my top 10 of best hockey players today; however people need to stop judging players by their point totals without looking at the overall picture. Crosby gets his points because he and Malkin were the only good players for the Pens all these years. He had the majority of ice time on even strength, he plays more time on the PP than anybody besides Malkin, and he rarely does any penalty killing. He is basically just an offensive tool for the Penguins. As an offensive player, he is arguable 2nd or 3rd best player in the league between himself, Ovie and Malkin.

But now that the Pens are getting better as a team. Will Crosby follow in the footsteps of Gretzky and play casual defense while focusing on scoring, or will he go the way of Yzerman and set the example on the PK, sacrifice his numbers for the good of the team? There are two players I'd pick over Crosby at this point in time: Zetterburgh and Datsyuk. Both could put up Crosby type numbers if they didn't have to spend most of their time defending their net on the PK.

Let's look at last year as an example: Crosby averaged 5.5 minutes on the PP last year during the regular season. Pavel Datsyuk had 3.5 minutes on the PP per game. That's an amazing difference in minutes!!!! What are the results: Crosby had 7 goals, 33 assists = 40 pts on the PP. Datsyuk had 11 goals, 25 assists = 36 pts on the PP. They basically have almost the same amount of points even though Datsyuk had 160 minutes less time on the PP.

I wonder how much scoring Crosby would be doing if he actually had to exert effort into taking care of his defensive zone. His +/- would certainly be better than a +3. How do you score 103 pts in a season and end up with a +3??? That's some lazy Ovechkin-like defense right there. He even had a great goalie like Fleury to bail him out yet still barely comes out even. Datsyuk has a +34 and his last line of defense is Chris Osbad.

I hope I wasn't too hard on Mr. Crosby. I do think he deserves praise for all he's accomplished but there are other players doing the dirty jobs that win championships who dont get praised, and I'd like people to remember about them as well.

For a guy that is telling me I should watch the players instead of the stat sheet you sure seem to spit out alot of stats.
Crosby is 22 years old. Has been to 2 Stanley Cups (1 Stanley Cup win), 1 Olympics (1 Olympic gold), 2 World Juniors (1 Gold, 1 Silver), QJHL finals (champions) A Memorial Cup finals(second place). Many championships before these accomplishments as well. Those are the only stats that really matter IMO. Personally I love a guy who WINS!

[Chambokl]

1000 posts makes me 'knowledgable'. 4000 posts means your keyboard has diarrhea.

How wonder what you are ......

I am quite

[nokids]

wonder what you are ......

i've been clean for years. but the side effects are permanent as you can see.

[Chambokl]

i've been clean for years. but the side effects are permanent as you can see.

That is good...

[jonf]

I have only one thing to say about this ridiculous debate, which seems to centre around plus minus.

Jeff Shultz is a +78 in his career He is therefore better than Crosby. Case closed.

Don't know who Jeff Shultz is? It doesn't matter. He has a better plus minus, so his is the greatest.

Bam.

[mberube]

Got to love the way Sid is playing this series. I thought that the Pens looked tired at the en of the season but now they look like a cup contender like last year. Let’s see what the Sens can muster up next game.

[jeffc]

any doubt as to who the better player is now? Crosby is at another level and leaving the rest of the league in his dust right now.

[Chambokl]

any doubt as to who the better player is now? Crosby is at another level and leaving the rest of the league in his dust right now.

Jeff... sorry I forgot to check, is Datsiuk still in the league... I am sure NoKids knows that but not sure if you remember seeing him this year??

[nokids]

Wow, Crosby has faced some awesome teams during this streak! POWERHOUSES like Carolina, Ottawa, Buffalo, Florida, Toronto, NJersey, Calgary, Oh ya, that's right, they're all under .500

I only wish Detroit played in the Weak East.

[HoganWoods]

Datsyuk? Great player but are you serious? Have you SEEN Crosby and the way he controls the play out there? Or on the boards? It's not even close, not even the same league. If you take a poll of all NHL players, GMs and coaches, they will tell you the same thing. This isn't to insult Datsyuk but that comparison was ridiculous.

[nokids]

Crosby? Great player but are you serious? Have you SEEN Datsyuk and the way he controls the play out there? Or on the boards? It's not even close, not even the same league. If you take a poll of all NHL players, GMs and coaches, they will tell you the same thing. This isn't to insult Crosby but that comparison was ridiculous.

[mberube]

Crosby tied for the League-lead with a career-high 51 goals last season. He also led the League with three hat tricks, was the most productive player in the shootout (8-for-10) and took (1,791) faceoffs and won (1,001) the most of anyone in the League. He also ranked seventh in faceoff winning percentage (55.9) among players taking at least 1,000 draws. He leads all forwards in ice time this season and is on pace for his fifth 100-point season.

2011 NHL All-Star Fan Balloting after three weeks

Forwards
Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh 319,809
Jonathan Toews Chicago 196,792
Steven Stamkos Tampa Bay 191,265
Alex Ovechkin Washington 168,684
Evgeni Malkin Pittsburgh 159,119
Patrick Kane Chicago 152,859
Mike Richards Philadelphia 151,354
Michael Cammalleri Montreal 150,544
*Claude Giroux Philadelphia 147,993
Pavel Datsyuk Detroit 138,204

[jeffc]

Crosby tied for the League-lead with a career-high 51 goals last season. He also led the League with three hat tricks, was the most productive player in the shootout (8-for-10) and took (1,791) faceoffs and won (1,001) the most of anyone in the League. He also ranked seventh in faceoff winning percentage (55.9) among players taking at least 1,000 draws. He leads all forwards in ice time this season and is on pace for his fifth 100-point season.

2011 NHL All-Star Fan Balloting after three weeks

Forwards
Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh 319,809
Jonathan Toews Chicago 196,792
Steven Stamkos Tampa Bay 191,265
Alex Ovechkin Washington 168,684
Evgeni Malkin Pittsburgh 159,119
Patrick Kane Chicago 152,859
Mike Richards Philadelphia 151,354
Michael Cammalleri Montreal 150,544
*Claude Giroux Philadelphia 147,993
Pavel Datsyuk Detroit 138,204

but he's no Datsyuk.

[nokids]

Crosby tied for the League-lead with a career-high 51 goals last season. He also led the League with three hat tricks, was the most productive player in the shootout (8-for-10) and took (1,791) faceoffs and won (1,001) the most of anyone in the League. He also ranked seventh in faceoff winning percentage (55.9) among players taking at least 1,000 draws. He leads all forwards in ice time this season and is on pace for his fifth 100-point season.

2011 NHL All-Star Fan Balloting after three weeks

Forwards
Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh 319,809
Jonathan Toews Chicago 196,792
Steven Stamkos Tampa Bay 191,265
Alex Ovechkin Washington 168,684
Evgeni Malkin Pittsburgh 159,119
Patrick Kane Chicago 152,859
Mike Richards Philadelphia 151,354
Michael Cammalleri Montreal 150,544
*Claude Giroux Philadelphia 147,993
Pavel Datsyuk Detroit 138,204

You can prove anything with cherry picked stats.

How many Selke's does Crosby have? Stanley Cups? Who's the better puck handler? Penalty Kiler? Two way player? Who lead the league in takeaways by a mile last year? Who plays more time on the PP? PK time?

[mpare]

You really should change your name to "Don Quioxte" given your pursuit of this hopeless cause.

You can prove anything with cherry picked stats.

How many Selke's does Crosby have? Stanley Cups? Who's the better puck handler? Penalty Kiler? Two way player? Who lead the league in takeaways by a mile last year? Who plays more time on the PP? PK time?

[sensfan63]

You can prove anything with cherry picked stats.

How many Selke's does Crosby have? Stanley Cups? Who's the better puck handler? Penalty Kiler? Two way player? Who lead the league in takeaways by a mile last year? Who plays more time on the PP? PK time?

I liken this comparison to Gretzky vs. Yzerman.

Sorry, nokids, but you're the only person here who would take Datsyuk. That doesn't tell you something?

(I HATE Pittsburgh, by the way...)

[jeffc]

You can prove anything with cherry picked stats.

How many Selke's does Crosby have? Stanley Cups? Who's the better puck handler? Penalty Kiler? Two way player? Who lead the league in takeaways by a mile last year? Who plays more time on the PP? PK time?

go back on your medication Pablo.

[mberube]

Speaking of the great Wings Steve Yzerman. What does he have to say about the Kid:

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=344589

And we all forget that he is only 23!!!! Imagine what he will have accomplished when he gets to Datsyuk’s age!!!

[nokids]

I liken this comparison to Gretzky vs. Yzerman.

Sorry, nokids, but you're the only person here who would take Datsyuk. That doesn't tell you something?

(I HATE Pittsburgh, by the way...)

Exactly. It's Gretzky vs Yzerman.

Gretzky/Crosby are scoring machines, league MVP, but for pple to say they're in a different league than Yzerman/Datsyuk is dumb. Maybe he was in a different league wrt his scoring prowess, but is that all it takes to be great? There's other things to consider too. But nobody wants to talk about that.

My jaw drops to the floor when I watch Datsyuk make defenders look like fools in tight corners with his puck skills. But stuff like that doesn't show up on the scoresheet, yet he controls the game like a magician. Sid is creative but not on Datsyuk's level. It may not be important to some pple, but to me it's a joy to watch.

Crosby's a cherry picker like OV8. The rest of the team plays defense so he can do his thing. Crosby and Datsyuk don't even play the same position. To use a soccer analogy, Sid plays forward, Datsyuk plays midfield.