Crosby - 400 points in 292 games

[Chambokl]

I gotta think most people who watch Ovechkin are in awe of what he is capable of. I know I am. Crosby less so, he's just not that kind of player but Ovie definitely is.

I have watch Sid play Jr... 4 games... and believe me, when you are sitting 5 feet from the ice you see what he does. Crosby does all the little thing perfectly... he will amaze you by his hard work and knowledge of the game. I don't think you can appreciate Crosby's talent while watching him on TV.

I still remember when Staal was move on Crosby's line during the Olympic and you see them on the bench and Staal is asking him how he wants to attack and where he wants to go... you could see the respect of Staal toward Crosby...

As for Ovy... well this year's play-off is for him to lose... we will see what happen with his team. I can't really see them not winning the Cup.

[mberube]

All I can really say on the topic is this. Crosby and Ovechkin are both great players, and both very different players. They will both be hall of famers one day. The best players - those on another level - create awe in those who watch them. People will never forget the day they witnessed a Bobby Orr end to end rush, a blind setup by Gretzky, or Lemieux trouncing the Leafs in his return. Can the same be said of Sid or Ovie? Not sure, but I'm inclined to think that at least one might be remembered like that. It will probably depend which one can lead their team to the greatest success, so at this point Sid is probably in front by a nose.

I will never forget the overtime winning goal he scored to win the Olympic gold.

[jonf]

I will never forget the overtime winning goal he scored to win the Olympic gold.

I'll remember that moment as well. But even below average players have great moments that we remember. What I meant is, neither Sid nor Ovie, imho, have that magical quality that makes even their every-day feats seem extraordinary. I dunno, it's tough to explain. There are certain special players (very very few of them) that just exude an aura of greatness whatever they do. You can just sense it.

In some ways, I think Ovie is closer to having this quality than Sid, but until he has team success, gr8ness will elude him.

[mberube]

I have watch Sid play Jr... 4 games... and believe me, when you are sitting 5 feet from the ice you see what he does. Crosby does all the little thing perfectly... he will amaze you by his hard work and knowledge of the game. I don't think you can appreciate Crosby's talent while watching him on TV.

I still remember when Staal was move on Crosby's line during the Olympic and you see them on the bench and Staal is asking him how he wants to attack and where he wants to go... you could see the respect of Staal toward Crosby...

As for Ovy... well this year's play-off is for him to lose... we will see what happen with his team. I can't really see them not winning the Cup.

I totally agree. I see Sid as a complete player as for Ovy he's a sniper/one-way player. Don't get me wrong he is entertaining to watch but Sid makes his team better. Hockey fans love to match spectacular goals and that's why they prefer Ovy. Most don't know hockey to appreciate the talent Sid has that most don't have in the NHL. He is less flashy but he still racks up more points then Ovy but that might change.

[mberube]

I'll remember that moment as well. But even below average players have great moments that we remember. What I meant is, neither Sid nor Ovie, imho, have that magical quality that makes even their every-day feats seem extraordinary. I dunno, it's tough to explain. There are certain special players (very very few of them) that just exude an aura of greatness whatever they do. You can just sense it.

In some ways, I think Ovie is closer to having this quality than Sid, but until he has team success, gr8ness will elude him.

Maybe so but the reputation he has right now is chocking under the gun. That all started when both of them met at the WrldJrs when Canada Won. That was their first date and Sid has prevailed from there on. I would really like to see a rematch in the play-off's this season although the Pens look tired with the two cup runs in the past three seasons. I think the Caps will be the disappointment this post season.

[nokids]

I see Sid as a complete player as for Ovy he's a sniper/one-way player. Don't get me wrong he is entertaining to watch but Sid makes his team better.

so how come Sid is never mentioned for the Selke trophy awarded to the league's top defensive forward? Why is it that Sid's always on a breakaway? Why is it that Sid is on the ice when his teams gives up a goal? Why is his +/- so bad for a guy about to hit 100 points? I'll tell you why, because he's a cherry picking one way player. Just like Ovie.

[mberube]

Because when you play 25 minutes a game, you will be scored on.

[nokids]

If he spent more energy preventing goals he'd be the 'complete player'. he can hold his own defensively, but he's nothing special at that end of the ice.

[nokids]

http://hubpages.com/hub/NHL-Career-PlusMinus-Leaders

Sidney is like +43 for his career. yet has 500 pts. i sense a trend. backcheck much?

[nokids]

god i hate crosby.

[fundonny]

Fact is that Syd is over-hyped and as the latest SI players poll shows, he's overrated.

[sensfan63]

so how come Sid is never mentioned for the Selke trophy awarded to the league's top defensive forward? Why is it that Sid's always on a breakaway? Why is it that Sid is on the ice when his teams gives up a goal? Why is his +/- so bad for a guy about to hit 100 points? I'll tell you why, because he's a cherry picking one way player. Just like Ovie.

Ovechkin is in the top three in +/-. Have any other arguments?

[sensfan63]

If he spent more energy preventing goals he'd be the 'complete player'. he can hold his own defensively, but he's nothing special at that end of the ice.

Was Gretzky? Lemieux? Any of the players generally looked at as the best to ever play the game?

Two-way forwards have their place in the game, don't get me wrong, but you need to score goals to win games (just ask Patrick Lalime, he of the best career postseason GAA).

Ask 30 GMs who they want, Crosby or Datsyuk. Maybe the Detroit GM says Datsyuk. Maybe. But that's it.

[sensfan63]

Fact is that Syd is over-hyped and as the latest SI players poll shows, he's overrated.

Quite a conumdrum...clearly one of the best players in the game today, but over-hyped. And I agree with that. But you have to have players to carry the torch for the league, and Crosby happens to be the guy (among a few others).

It happens in the NFL too. People say that Peyton Manning is over-exposed for a guy who's won "only" one Super Bowl.

[nokids]

Ovechkin is in the top three in +/-. Have any other arguments?

you need to watch a caps game rather than looking at the stat sheet. ovie doesn't play defense. backstrom semin and the defense take care of that, while ovie never crosses the blue line. he's the worst cherry picker in the entire league. it's worked for them so far as the Ovie line is destroying the other teams' best lines, but that doesn't mean Ovie plays defense.

[nokids]

Was Gretzky? Lemieux? Any of the players generally looked at as the best to ever play the game?

Ask 30 GMs who they want, Crosby or Datsyuk. Maybe the Detroit GM says Datsyuk. Maybe. But that's it.

1-someone here called Crosby a complete player. i was pointing out he's not.

2-your opinion isn't a fact. datsyuk is better defensively than Crosby by miles, imo, datsyuk is just as talented as Sid offensively, imo, datsyuk is better with the puck than Sid, imo, but Sid plays twice as much time on the PP and half as much time on the PK than Datsyuk. one of these guys is a two way player who does it all, the other is an offensive tool.

[sensfan63]

you need to watch a caps game rather than looking at the stat sheet. ovie doesn't play defense. backstrom semin and the defense take care of that, while ovie never crosses the blue line. he's the worst cherry picker in the entire league. it's worked for them so far as the Ovie line is destroying the other teams' best lines, but that doesn't mean Ovie plays defense.

You brought up Crosby's +/- like it makes a difference, so I brought up Ovechkin's. You can't have it both ways.

[Chambokl]

1-someone here called Crosby a complete player. i was pointing out he's not.

2-your opinion isn't a fact. datsyuk is better defensively than Crosby by miles, imo, datsyuk is just as talented as Sid offensively, imo, datsyuk is better with the puck than Sid, imo, but Sid plays twice as much time on the PP and half as much time on the PK than Datsyuk. one of these guys is a two way player who does it all, the other is an offensive tool.

Sorry man, but you have to start watching hockey or stop saying ridiculous comments... You have repeated the same stupid comment about 20 times in this thread... do you have anything else to say?

Datsiuk +16 ..... Crosby +13... Man I could see how you think Datsiuk is a much more complete player... By the way where was Datsiuk during the Olympic or did he not play?

[mberube]

1-someone here called Crosby a complete player. i was pointing out he's not.

2-your opinion isn't a fact. datsyuk is better defensively than Crosby by miles, imo, datsyuk is just as talented as Sid offensively, imo, datsyuk is better with the puck than Sid, imo, but Sid plays twice as much time on the PP and half as much time on the PK than Datsyuk. one of these guys is a two way player who does it all, the other is an offensive tool.

Datsyuk! He was good at one thing for a long time, being scarred. It took a few post season runs to get the wimpiness out of him. Sid is 22 and already has the same amount of points that Datsyuk has at 31 in 7 post season runs. Don't tell me Datsyuk has more offensive talent then Sid. Also, Sid haters said that he was not a factor in last post season run. 31 points in 24 games last year and 27 points in 20 games the year before. And again, he is only 22 years old!!!!!!!!!! Give me a break. Give credit where credit is due.

[nokids]

Sorry man, but you have to start watching hockey or stop saying ridiculous comments... You have repeated the same stupid comment about 20 times in this thread... do you have anything else to say?

Datsiuk +16 ..... Crosby +13... Man I could see how you think Datsiuk is a much more complete player... By the way where was Datsiuk during the Olympic or did he not play?

how about i have center ice and exclusively watch Detroit and Pittsburgh games. i'll stick to my stupid ridiculous comments and you can once a month come in to tell me how dumb they are, ok?

so detroit is having a rebuilding year, the worst year since i became a fan of theirs, and you pull out this year's +/- as an arguement? can your arguement get any more shallow? i'd say datsyuk had a weak first half of the season but has been our best player in the second half. the things he does on the ice blow me away. i can't explain in words how talented and skilled this guy is. he makes defenders look stupid. his defense is the best in the league, he's excellent at the PK, the PP, he does it all. Can I say the same about Crosby? No I can't. He's all about the offense.

Your olympics comment is funny because I have the same question about Crosby. he disappeared after the Norway and Swiss games, only to make a cameo in overtime of the finals. Reall dominant player that Sid guy is. what a joke.

[nokids]

Datsyuk! He was good at one thing for a long time, being scarred. It took a few post season runs to get the wimpiness out of him.

Sid is 22 and already has the same amount of points that Datsyuk has at 31 in 7 post season runs.

Don't tell me Datsyuk has more offensive talent then Sid.

Also, Sid haters said that he was not a factor in last post season run. 31 points in 24 games last year and 27 points in 20 games the year before. And again, he is only 22 years old!!!!!!!!!! Give me a break. Give credit where credit is due.

You mean, like Cindy? At least Dats didn't become the posterboy for the WHAMBULANCE.

Dats is a defensive forward who happens to be one of the best offensive players in the league. Defense first. Sid +43 career, Dats +175 career.

When did i say datsyuk has more offensive talent? i wouldn't be dumb enough to say something so subjective.

Sid was not a factor in the STANLEY CUP FINALS. do you want me to pull out the stats for you again?

[fundonny]

Quite a conumdrum...clearly one of the best players in the game today, but over-hyped. And I agree with that. But you have to have players to carry the torch for the league, and Crosby happens to be the guy (among a few others).

It happens in the NFL too. People say that Peyton Manning is over-exposed for a guy who's won "only" one Super Bowl.

No one could live up to what they placed on Syd before he even started an NHL game. Wayne put everything too out of reach for anyone.

[jeffc]

1-someone here called Crosby a complete player. i was pointing out he's not.

2-your opinion isn't a fact. datsyuk is better defensively than Crosby by miles, imo, datsyuk is just as talented as Sid offensively, imo, datsyuk is better with the puck than Sid, imo, but Sid plays twice as much time on the PP and half as much time on the PK than Datsyuk. one of these guys is a two way player who does it all, the other is an offensive tool.

dude, you cannot make an unbiased opinion when you state things like "god I hate crosby". I neither like him nor hate him, but I appreciate what he brings to the table. I could be biased about a few players, Sens primarily since I am a fan but for the rest of the league, I take players based on what I see. You are a big Detroit and Datsyuk fan and are obviously biased towards him. Again, I ask the question, given the two players, would anyone choose Datsyuk over Crosby. It's not even close. Crosby can certainly hold his own defensively is not a cherry picker as you indicate.

As for +/- it is one of the more useless stats out there. Gretzky is 3rd in career +/- but never backchecked his whole career. Simply a one way player. Ovechkin is 3rd in this category, Datsyuk and Crosby are more or less the same. Yet you use this stat as the be all and end all when its convinient. Personally I don't think its that important of a stat.

[jeffc]

Dats is a defensive forward who happens to be one of the best offensive players in the league. Defense first. Sid +43 career, Dats +175 career.

Again, you use this as a convinient stat. Dats is what? 31, Crosby 22? Crosby has played for 5 years, Dats 8. Crosby played for some brutal teams for the first couple of years, Dats has played for nothing but very good to excellent teams his whole career and has benefitted from a strong defensive team with a hall of fame D-man. Players on better teams will always have better +/-. That's the facts, jack.

[Chambokl]

you can once a month

I come here 2 or 3 times a day and read every comments... but I don't repeat the same thing over...and over...and over... and over....

[Chambokl]

No one could live up to what they placed on Syd before he even started an NHL game. Wayne put everything too out of reach for anyone.

Actually Donny, it is not they who places anything on Syd.... it is Wayne himself.

I think that Crosby was 15 or 16 at the time and Gretzky was asked if he thought anyone could break his records, he answered that Crosby could, and added that Crosby was the best player he had seen since Mario Lemieux.

[Chambokl]

Sid was not a factor in the STANLEY CUP FINALS. do you want
me to pull out the stats for you again?

Is that the same series where Datsiuk and the Wings choke badly... Up 2-0 in the series and they manage to lose 4 of the next 5 games... Don't worry about who scored what, just worry about the chocking Wings...

[nokids]

You are a big Detroit and Datsyuk fan and are obviously biased towards him.

you call me biased because I disagree with your point of view that Crosby is better than Datsyuk. if i find another person who agrees with me, are you going to call them biased too? you call yourself neutral but how do i know you're not wearing a Crosby jersey, have a Sidney Crosby desktop background, and an autographed poster of him on your wall?

i'll concede this:

Sid puts more points on the board than Datsyuk, but Datsyuk prevents more points on the board than Sid.

[nokids]

Is that the same series where Datsiuk and the Wings choke badly... Up 2-0 in the series and they manage to lose 4 of the next 5 games... Don't worry about who scored what, just worry about the chocking Wings...

this thread is about the greatness of Sidney Crosby. I was discussing something relevant to the topic, you're not.

[jeffc]

you call me biased because I disagree with your point of view that Crosby is better than Datsyuk. if i find another person who agrees with me, are you going to call them biased too? you call yourself neutral but how do i know you're not wearing a Crosby jersey, have a Sidney Crosby desktop background, and an autographed poster of him on your wall?

i'll concede this:

Sid puts more points on the board than Datsyuk, but Datsyuk prevents more points on the board than Sid.

actually if you bothered to read my post I called you biased because you said you hate crosby and you are a big Detriot/Datyuk fan. I am ok when people disagree with me (just ask my wife), but your arguements are not very sound and your bias comes through in every post you make.

As for Crosby, this is not very common knowledge, but we secretly have a love child together. I am a Sens fan and an honest person and - you can choose to believe that or not.