Flag to edge of green?

[PapaPat]

Perhaps Kilroy, you know this. Does anyone know for certain how close to the side of a green a hole can be cut and where this is set down? I don't think it is really a rules issue, but I get asked all the time and would like to have a supportable answer.

[Kilroy]

There are no Rules which govern hole location, only guidelines. The RCGA guidelines include:

The hole should be positioned at least four paces from any edge of the green, with a relatively regular slope (not necessarily level) radius of 3 to 4 feet around the hole). The player should have a good chance of making a three foot putt, and be able to stop the ball at the hole if putted from above the hole. In no case should holes be positioned within three paces of a very severe slope or ridge or of a recently used hole.

There must be enough putting surface between the hole and the front and the sides of the green to accommodate the required shot. For example, if the hole requires a long iron or wood shot to the green, the hole should be placed deeper in the green and farther from its sides than would be the case if the hole requires a short pitch shot.

In general, there should be a balanced selection of hole positions for the entire course with respect to left, right, central, front and back positions and six quite difficult, six moderately difficult and six relatively easy positions is recommended. One should also try to keep a balance of using the left and right of the green, e.g., first nine, four to the left, four to the right and one in the centre. The second nine should be similar.

Finally, any liner must be sunk at least one inch below the putting green surface.

[LobWedge]

Rule of thumb that I've heard is no fewer than 5 paces.

[LobWedge]

From the USGA website...

The USGA frequently receives requests for guidelines with respect to selection of hole locations on the putting greens, particularly during competitions. There are no rules regarding hole locations, so there is no such thing as an "illegal" hole location. However, we do have some guidelines.

Many factors affect selection of hole locations. The first and most important is good judgment in deciding what will give fair results. Do not be tricky in locating holes. There should be enough putting green surface between the hole and the front and the sides of the green to accommodate the required shot.
In any case, it generally is recommended that the hole be located at least five paces from any edge of the green. If a bunker is close to the edge, or if the ground slopes away from the edge, the distance should be greater, especially if the shot is more than a pitch.

An area two to three feet in radius around the hole should be as nearly level as possible and of uniform grade. A player above the hole should be able to stop the ball at the hole. Consider the condition of nearby turf, especially taking care to avoid old hole plugs that have not completely healed.

[AAA]

The R&A guidelenes say 'at least four paces'

[Kilroy]

The RCGA is more closely aligned with the R&A than the USGA.

[LobWedge]

The R&A guidelenes say 'at least four paces'

Maybe something to do with average green sizes being smaller over there?

[BC MIST]

At the RCGA Handicap certification seminar, Matt MacKay indicated that the minimum distance the hole should be cut from the edge of the green be 4 paces.

Related to the above is the fact that the pins and the tee markers should be set up so that the playing difficulty of the course be constant from day to day. As the course rating changes .1 for each 22 yards of distance for men and 18 yards for women, a course that is set up much longer or shorter than the length from the permanent markers used in the rating, makes the existing rating/slope very inaccurate. While the concept of 6 easy, medium and hard pin positions is often used, establishing 9 rotational pin positions (eg. Greensmere) or 6 rotational positions (eg. Renfrew), coupled with rotational tee marker positions, and the varying degrees of difficulty are incidentally taken care of.

It is possible to obtain a course rating/slope for a course that is set up much longer or much shorter than that which was used when the course was rated. An adjustment chart is available here - http://www.golfquebec.org/userfiles/...sHommes(1).jpg and should be used to determine an accurate rating/slope. We used the ladies chart to establish an official, temporary rating for our ladies who play from our black tee markers, where no ladies rating was initially calculated,

[PapaPat]

Good stuff guys. Thanks a lot.

[stevek]

There are no Rules which govern hole location, only guidelines. The RCGA guidelines include:

The hole should be positioned at least four paces from any edge of the green, with a relatively regular slope (not necessarily level) radius of 3 to 4 feet around the hole). The player should have a good chance of making a three foot putt, and be able to stop the ball at the hole if putted from above the hole. In no case should holes be positioned within three paces of a very severe slope or ridge or of a recently used hole.

There must be enough putting surface between the hole and the front and the sides of the green to accommodate the required shot. For example, if the hole requires a long iron or wood shot to the green, the hole should be placed deeper in the green and farther from its sides than would be the case if the hole requires a short pitch shot.

In general, there should be a balanced selection of hole positions for the entire course with respect to left, right, central, front and back positions and six quite difficult, six moderately difficult and six relatively easy positions is recommended. One should also try to keep a balance of using the left and right of the green, e.g., first nine, four to the left, four to the right and one in the centre. The second nine should be similar.

Finally, any liner must be sunk at least one inch below the putting green surface.

Loch March # 9 often has the hole just above the severe slope - certainly not three paces away. Perhaps they should be notified.....

[mpare]

The Highlands course in Bradford at which I play had 16 of its pins set within 5 paces of the edges of green last Sunday and Monday. Half of those pins were nearly impossible. On two I had birdie putts of 3 and 4 feet. I barely touched the putts. In both cases the ball missed its target (fast greens and lots of slope). In one case I was left with a 20 foot putt for par and in the other a 15 footer. The others presented similar challenges. I guess the pinsetter had a bad day, because he sought out the most diabolical spots for the pins.

I pointed out to the pro that those playing in a tournament on Moday afternoon might not be as self-controlled as me. If they didn't change those pins, they could expect to see a yahoo gouge a green or two. The pins were not changed. Unfortunately, the next day I found gouges near the where the pins had been located. The moral of this story is that there is a price to pay for where you set your pins.

[LobWedge]

The Highlands course in Bradford at which I play had 16 of its pins set within 5 paces of the edges of green last Sunday and Monday. Half of those pins were nearly impossible. On two I had birdie putts of 3 and 4 feet. I barely touched the putts. In both cases the ball missed its target (fast greens and lots of slope). In one case I was left with a 20 foot putt for par and in the other a 15 footer. The others presented similar challenges. I guess the pinsetter had a bad day, because he sought out the most diabolical spots for the pins.

I pointed out to the pro that those playing in a tournament on Moday afternoon might not be as self-controlled as me. If they didn't change those pins, they could expect to see a yahoo gouge a green or two. The pins were not changed. Unfortunately, the next day I found gouges near the where the pins had been located. The moral of this story is that there is a price to pay for where you set your pins.

The problem is that clubs seem to think that they need to make every pin a PGA Tour pin for their tournaments. Funny thing is, anyone who really pays attention to these things knows that the Tour uses the guidelines, and sets up a lot of their pins to be accessable for scoring.

[g8r]

I was atm a tournament this week at the Marshes and just about every hole was cut in the front third of the green. likley a tournament strategy to protect the greens, but it was odd that we never had to go to the back of the green.