What's the score?

[LobWedge]

Hey gbower and BCMIST, lets put this one to everyone else.

The following question was posed to us by Level 4 official, Gayle Faulkner, as part of a warm-up quiz to our discussion of Rule 27. Have a go.

A competitor plays a provisional ball believing his original ball may be lost in rough, and it lands not too far from the same general area where his original ball landed, but is visible. He searches for his original ball, and finding a ball within a minute, he plays it to the green and picks up his provisional ball. When he arrives at the green he discovers that he has hit a wrong ball. He returns to the area to search for another 4 minutes but cannot find his ball. He drops another ball in the rough where he was searching for his original ball and plays it to the green, holing out with 2 putts. What is his score for the hole?

It took us a while, but we all managed to come up with the same (correct) answer.

[gbower]

And we weren't even talking to each other about the answer.

[Kiwi battler]

Holy smoke ...what a mess lol ....

original shot 1
provisional ball 3rd shot laying 3 if its to be ball in play
hits wrong ball 2 shots
returns to restart the search , the clock stops when he's playing the wrong ball
had lifted the provisional ball 1 shot penalty as it was to be the ball in play
Wrongly substitutes a ball ..normally 2 penalty shots
Hit to green 1 shot , but from a wrong place , 2 penalty shots , avoiding the above 2 penalty shots tho
2 putts

makes about , hang on , just off my shoes and socks , 11

[oldmaninblack]

Provisional would be 3 off the tee
Add 2 for playing a wrong ball
Since his provisional was not too far from the same general area where his original ball landed, his drop is OK because he can't determine the exact location to replace the provisional which is now the ball in play.
1 more to hit the green + 2 putts

That would make 8

I would not penalize for lifting the provisional, since that was reasonable given that he 'found' the original. Penalizing him would be in effect be penalizing the same act twice, the act of playing a wrong ball.

[LobWedge]

I'll give you a hint. It's not 11, and it's not 8...

[Sakuraba]

If he didn't drop as closely as possible to where he believed the provisional was, I am fairly sure that is playing from a wrong place.

[leafseh]

Give him a big ole 7 - is that your final answer? lol

Original shot
Shot 2 to the green
Shot doesn't count when realizing he played the wrong ball (+2)
+1 for drop
Shot into green
2 putts

7

[Sakuraba]

I thought it was a score of 9 as long as he replayed correctly from where the provisional originally was
27-2b/9 of the decisions covered everything but the drop...

[overpar]

I'd give him a 7 but i'm a nice guy and can't count! lol

[oldmaninblack]

Since the wording of the "drop" might imply that he dropped where he thought the original ball might have been, rather than from where he thought the provisional was, then he has played from a wrong place and must play out the hole with the ball played from the wrong place.

I would then make the score 10

Since he never found the original, his provisional was in play = 3 off the tee + 2 for wrong ball + 2 for wrong place + 1 shot to green + 2 putts

So what did you guys decide at the rules meeting?

[rezadue]

Ok, this is a dandy. Here is my guess:

- Plays original ball - stroke #1
- Plays a provisional.
- Plays second shot from where he thought his original ball laid to rest- stroke #2
- Finds that he played the wrong ball -strokes # 3&4 <-He played the provisional instead
- Goes back and does not find ball. Drops ball where he thought original ball was, not the provisional - stroke #5 for playing from the wrong spot
- But since he had not found his original and had played the provisional another two strokes - Strokes 6 & 7
- Plays next shot to the green - stroke #8
- Two putts - Strokes #9 and #10

If he had deemed his ball lost and played the provisional (with the knowledge that it was indeed his provisional and not original), we would have scored a 6 instead of 10.

So he drops fourshots by making a mistake.

Am I in the correct ball park?

Hey gbower and BCMIST, lets put this one to everyone else.

The following question was posed to us by Level 4 official, Gayle Faulkner, as part of a warm-up quiz to our discussion of Rule 27. Have a go.

A competitor plays a provisional ball believing his original ball may be lost in rough, and it lands not too far from the same general area where his original ball landed, but is visible. He searches for his original ball, and finding a ball within a minute, he plays it to the green and picks up his provisional ball. When he arrives at the green he discovers that he has hit a wrong ball. He returns to the area to search for another 4 minutes but cannot find his ball. He drops another ball in the rough where he was searching for his original ball and plays it to the green, holing out with 2 putts. What is his score for the hole?

It took us a while, but we all managed to come up with the same (correct) answer.

[Sakuraba]

Rez (well.. I guess and everyone) I used this from the decisions (27-2b/9)

Q: In stroke play, a competitor, believing his tee shot might be lost, plays a provisional ball. He finds a ball he believes is his original ball, plays a stroke at it, picks up his provisional ball and then discovers that the ball he played was not his original ball, but rather a wrong ball. He resumes search for this original ball but cannot find it. What is the ruling?

A: The competitor lifted a ball which was to become the ball in play, i.e. the provisional ball – see Rule 27-2b.
Accordingly, the competitor incurred a stroke-and-distance penalty under Rule 27-1 as a result of losing his original ball, a two-stroke penalty under Rule 15-3b for playing a wrong ball and a one-stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a for picking up his provisional ball. He is required to replace and play out the provisional ball. The competitor would be playing his seventh stroke."

So my answer is that if he dropped closely enough to where he thought he picked up the provisional (described in the original question as very close to where he found what he thought was the original) then he hit 7 on the green and 2 putted for 9.

If he didn't drop properly, I thought it is another 2 for an 11, but Rich said it isn't 11. Is it 1 or 2 for wrong place?

[rezadue]

Andrew, I got the impression from Rich's post that he dropped the ball in the wrong spot (where he thought the original ball was, as opposed to where the ball he played out was).

[LobWedge]

Another hint. Reza has the right number of strokes, but the method is slightly off. There are 5 actual strokes, and 5 penalty strokes.

[Kiwi battler]

Sak , if you dont ping him for the wrong place , you gotta get him for the substituted ball

Or maybe the little hint of rule 27 means more than looking at the mentioned decision