RadarGolf Balls

[Kilroy]

These are the balls with the microchip transmitter and a radio reciever ball finder.
I have been looking around and the only thing I have been able to find with regards to the acceptability of these balls for handicapping or competition is the manufacturer's claim.

From their website FAQ:

Does the RadarGolf System conform to USGA rules?
The USGA states that scores may still be submitted for handicap purposes since the RadarGolf System does not assist in the physical execution of the golf stroke. Therefore, the RadarGolf system is allowed for posting USGA handicaps.

However, they also claim:

Will the RadarGolf System improve my golf game?
The RadarGolf System will almost certainly improve your golf score. Locating in-bounds balls that might previously have been “lost” allows golfers to avoid the 2-stroke lost ball penalty. Golfer confidence and satisfaction should increase as well – translating into better shots and lower scores.

They are not on the list of conforming balls.
http://www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBa..._golf_ball.asp

So if you accept the claim, you can use it for handicapping, but not for competition. Still, the Apendecies directly refrence Elecrtonic Measuring Devices, but there is NO refrence to these and I suspect the claim of acceptability for handicapping is stretching things.

Has anyone found anything definative in the rules?

[gbower]

From the handicap manual at:

www.usga.org/bookrule.aspx?id=14379

I found that if non conforming balls are used that the score cannot be posted and as these balls are not on the conforming balls list I would say that the person is not able to post them. I'm sure someone a bit more up on this will reply but that's my take on what I read.

------------------------------------------------------
f. Unacceptable Scores

Scores made under the following conditions are not acceptable for handicap purposes and must not be entered in the player's scoring record:

(i) When fewer than seven holes are played;

(ii) When made on a golf course in an area in which an inactive season established by the authorized golf association is in effect;

(iii) When a majority of the holes are not played in accordance with the principles of the Rules of Golf (except for preferred lies);

(iv) When the length of the course is less than 3,000 yards for 18 holes (or less than 1,500 yards for 9 holes);

(v) When, as a condition of the competition, the maximum number of clubs allowed is less than 14, or types of clubs are limited as, for example, in a competition that allows only iron clubs;

(vi) When scores are made on a course with no USGA Course Rating or Slope Rating;

(vii) When a player uses non-conforming clubs, non-conforming balls, or tees;

(viii) With respect to Rule 14-3 (Rules of Golf), when an artificial device or piece of unusual equipment is used during the execution of a stroke or when equipment is used in an unusual manner during the execution of a stroke. (See Decision 5-1f/2 for an exception.)

[sillywilly]

if they say they are confirming i would have to believe them. How could they make a statement like that? Also, how is a microchip in the ball helping your game other than helping you find your ball? if its withing all the spin, dimple, weight, dimensions specs I would have to believe the manuf. claims but I'm bias since I just dropped some $$$ on a unit lol

[gbower]

I think you may want to look at the conforming ball list and I don't think you'll find anything about the Radargolf balls.

www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf

[spackler]

It probably was conforming at one time and has been taken off the list. The Maxfli Rev Tour and Black Max for example are not on that list and they both had plenty of tour usage a few years ago.

[justsomeguy]

I think you may want to look at the conforming ball list and I don't think you'll find anything about the Radargolf balls.

www.usga.org/ConformingGolfBall/gball_list.pdf

There is a difference between using a "non-conforming ball" and using a "ball that is not on the Conforming Golf Ball" list.

The "conforming lists" are basically used for tournaments only. They allow the tournament organizer to have a Condition of Competition that the clubs/balls must be on the list - and then they don't have to worry about whether particular clubs/balls are legal or not.

To be "non-conforming", they must violate a particular requirement outlined in the Rules of Golf that makes them illegal. If you can't find anything that makes them illegal, then they are legal.

For example, there are many, many drivers that are not on the Conforming Driver list that are perfectly legal. Many component companies don't bother to get their heads tested at all (or only test heads that will be used in long-drive competitions), so they are not on the list. They are still legal and your rounds played with them still count.

[AAA]

The answer is in Decision 14-3/14

[Kilroy]

Thank you AAA That's what I was looking for. I was pretty sure I'd seen that before but I could not find it.

14-3/14 Electronic Instrument Used to Find Ball
Q. A transmitter has been embedded in a golf ball. When used with a special radio receiver, a player may find such a ball readily because the transmitter emits a signal that grows louder as the receiver moves closer to the ball. Is the use of such a ball and receiver permissible?
A. No. Use of such a ball in conjunction with the receiver is a breach of Rule 14-3.
However, use of such a ball without the receiver is permissible, provided the ball conforms to the Rules and its use is in accordance with any conditions of competition that may have been adopted (e.g., the List of Conforming Golf Balls Condition).

Penalty for Breach of Rule 14-3: Disqualification.

Unfortunate they would make that claim.

[Hacker]

I'm glad that there is an actual decision......but common sense should lead one to conclude that they are illegal

[Kilroy]

I'm glad that there is an actual decision......but common sense should lead one to conclude that they are illegal

I was thinking that too, but the RO in me knew better than to say anything more than "I can't find it" LOL!

[Hacker]

I was thinking that too, but thr RO in me knew better than to say anything more than "I can't find it" LOL!

Poor Depe isn't having a good summer.......First he buys a Pinseeker with slope and now he buys a Radar Golf set-up

I'm thinking that is cap is total cRap and he should have to play us as a scratch golfer

[Kilroy]

He needs a consultant. My rates are reasonable.

[BG458]

He needs a consultant. My rates are reasonable.

haven't you already taken enough money from him??

[Kilroy]

A few sheckles is all.

[Kilroy]

I have emailed RadarGolf inquiring as to how they can claim that scores are acceptable for handicapping. I wonder if they will reply.

[mpare]

If you receive a response the spin will be so great that you'll have to take a Dramamine.

I have emailed RadarGolf inquiring as to how they can claim that scores are acceptable for handicapping. I wonder if they will reply.

[Kilroy]

Nothing yet.

[il-terrifico]

Bottom line is, for the average golfer, on a tough course like say Stonebridge, you might hit 2-5 balls into "jeopardy" per round, and on a given day, depending on your eyesight, the number of players in your group, whether they've cut the rough recently etc., you might find 5 for 5, or 0 for 3, and that difference can be 6 strokes. That much luck/variables impact is too much in my view.

You still have to play the poor lie, as applicable. You can also decide to play that a very bad shot is still stroke and distance, and then go find the ball. Losing a ball in fescue 6 inches off the fairway is not fair, and ruined my best round at the Stone before I got my unit.

You also pay a tiny price to use the Radar ball, as they are very good around the greens, but not great like say a Pro V.

You also might play off a handicap that is a bit lower than people with similar skill who don't use the ball, but the savings in time, frustration and having outcomes that reflect how you played are well worth it, IMHO.

[hoolio]

If the ball is legal, then why is the device to locate the ball illegal? To me it would seem to be no different than using a spotter or someone from the crowd to locate a ball. Knowing the position of the ball on the course should be common knowledge, and just because you're locating the ball using a device, rather than a pair of eyes shouldn't make any difference.

[Sakuraba]

If the ball is legal, then why is the device to locate the ball illegal? To me it would seem to be no different than using a spotter or someone from the crowd to locate a ball. Knowing the position of the ball on the course should be common knowledge, and just because you're locating the ball using a device, rather than a pair of eyes shouldn't make any difference.

I hate to say it, but you make an excellent point there. The argument echoes the arguments in favour of allowing rangefinders. I say it should be legal. I just don't think they will be as popular as the distance measuring devices, so we won't see this happen.

[jvincent]

Like many of the Rules, it is an arbitrary decision that makes the electronic ball finder illegal.

If it ever became as popular as GPS or laser rangefinders you can bet that they would be made OK for casual rounds in the same way that GPS/laser were.

[hoolio]

I say it should be legal. I just don't think they will be as popular as the distance measuring devices, so we won't see this happen.

It's more of a question of why did they think it was illegal anyway? How many times have you played a dog-leg in late September/October and lost a ball in the fairway or edge of the rough under a pile of leaves? Why shouldn't there be something there to help you locate a ball that you know is in play?

Case in point; in the Team Match play final on Sunday at Cartier, dreaded_snowman hit a nice drive down the edge of the rough on the 12th hole. We saw it land and bounce a couple times and everyone seemed to be in agreement as to where it was when we were looking, but there was no sight of it and no way it could have been under a tree.

While I expect the intent of this device is for more extreme ball hunting, it shows how it could be effective in finding a ball that was only slightly off target and not in any apparent trouble.

Like many of the Rules, it is an arbitrary decision that makes the electronic ball finder illegal.

This is what I don't get about the rules (or in this case the decision). To actually make it into the book of decisions, I would assume there is some sort of committee to review and discuss before coming to a conclusion. It would be nice to see the logic behind not allowing the device as it's not actually assisting the playing in striking the ball, or prefering his position on the golf course. It's simply allowing a player to locate and identify a ball which has been struck legally from the teeing ground.