World Golf Ranking?

[Andru]

I would Farzin but that was too much to swallow.

Seriously though............... that is one man's writing and for each of them there is someone who can write just as elequantly in the opposite end of the discussion.

I and most others agree about his game and if that was the only thing we were debating, then yes you and the other Tiger Lovers are right about how good his game is (well at least for now how good it was).

But let's face it, the guy is not a very personable person when he should be with all that golf has given him. Dont go there with the "what he has done for golf" crap, I know what he has done for golf.

More people buying his clubs, his shoes, his shirts, his pants, his underwear with the flap on the back end, his balls etc. etc. etc.

Oh wait, let's not forget the extra people crowding us on the golf courses every weekend, the beginer golfers (not all of them of course and I am being a tad general here), who doesnt know much about the etiquette or the game, that standing there on the green with the pin in the grass and scraping his new Nike shoes across it without fixing the mark he left, the 100 ball marks they leave on every green. Shall I go on my good buddy?

Puuulease every golfer on the PGA tour and Nationwide tour is feeling the effects of Tiger. Have you sene the purses lately. Give the guy some credit.

Second. Nike isn't the number one anything in golf. So no, they're not running out and buying Tiger anything. Though the ONE ball is pretty nice. BTW doesn't Phil Mickelson actually have a set of clubs called the PM's? Hmm What an ego maniac!!!!

Third. You're not the first basher in the history of bashers and you won't be the last. By the time it's all said and done. You're going to wonder the why you were so stubborn and crusty. Don't take my word for it just let it happen. And don't forget to tell the golf fans that you've seen the light.

Fourth. You taking the opportunity to bring up a tired etiquette discussion. YAWN. and blaming it soley on the low lifes entering the game because of Tiger. Double YAWN. Spike marks on the green and slow play are brand new issues facing golf today. What a crock. Why did they switch to soft spikes anyway?

[mberube]

Yes we did. And yes I did. But I was also taught by my father that golf is to be enjoyed by all. As a 16 year old learning to golf, I was tought that we should leave the course as you found it. Fix ball marks, rake sand traps, replace divots, pick up the garbage even if it's not yours. A little consideration for others goes a long way.

I agree but we did not all have the luxury to learn golf from are fathers and/or at a young age. I started playing golf at 22 years old with nobody to explain to me what was golf, the rules, divots and ball mark repair. I have been playing for 8 years know and I am a single digit handicap for the past three. I once was that bad golfer storming weekend golfers influenced by Tiger.

[broken27]

Third. You're not the first basher in the history of bashers and you won't be the last. By the time it's all said and done. You're going to wonder the why you were so stubborn and crusty. Don't take my word for it just let it happen. And don't forget to tell the golf fans that you've seen the light.

Fourth. You taking the opportunity to bring up a tired etiquette discussion. YAWN. and blaming it soley on the low lifes entering the game because of Tiger. Double YAWN. Spike marks on the green and slow play are brand new issues facing golf today. What a crock. Why did they switch to soft spikes anyway?

I bolded the text above because statements like that make me laugh my ass off. Okay Andru, if you say so it must be correct! Ironically, you're being just as stubborn in your defence of Tiger and twice as crusty because you're resorting to personal arguments along the way. Nobody is saying he's not influential, nobody says he doesn't have incredible game, and nobody is saying they want him to die. I'm saying I want him to fail. I'm saying he lacks the charisma to properly be an ambassador for the sport. I'm saying I'm tired of him being on top of the World Golf Rankings when he's barely playing in any events, and when he does he isn't playing all that well, while guys like Els and Singh have been toiling away and getting some strong results.

As for the etiquette part of the point, true it was exaggerated, but at the same time there is no denying that Tiger has brought a different class of golfer out to the courses, and quite a few of them lack the respect for the game to abide by the common courtesy rules of the game. If you want to debate that, fine. Doesn't really matter to me. I know that there's members out there who don't replace divots, fix ball marks, scuff mark the greens, etc. But I'd suggest that it's not primarily them.

Dan

[Colby]

I'm not the only guy who still likes Phil...


http://www.scoregolf.com/columnists/...le=1850&type=1

[mberube]

I'm saying I want him to fail.

Why be so negative all the time. Why do people what other people to fail! I just don't understand negativity like that.

I'm saying he lacks the charisma to properly be an ambassador for the sport. I'm saying I'm tired of him being on top of the World Golf Rankings when he's barely playing in any events, and when he does he isn't playing all that well, while guys like Els and Singh have been toiling away and getting some strong results.
Dan

I don't remember Tiger wanting to be the ambassador of the game. Hi just wants to do his own thing and beet Jacks records. Hogan was a great player but was also viewed like a self-centered person. Hi was not a people person. I say live and let live.

Tiger is where he is in the world rankings cause of what he has done in past tournaments. Nobody up to date has done better and that’s why he is able to retain his ranking even if he not playing up to HIS slandered.

[Andru]

I bolded the text above because statements like that make me laugh my ass off. Okay Andru, if you say so it must be correct! Ironically, you're being just as stubborn in your defence of Tiger and twice as crusty because you're resorting to personal arguments along the way. Nobody is saying he's not influential, nobody says he doesn't have incredible game, and nobody is saying they want him to die. I'm saying I want him to fail. I'm saying he lacks the charisma to properly be an ambassador for the sport. I'm saying I'm tired of him being on top of the World Golf Rankings when he's barely playing in any events, and when he does he isn't playing all that well, while guys like Els and Singh have been toiling away and getting some strong results.

As for the etiquette part of the point, true it was exaggerated, but at the same time there is no denying that Tiger has brought a different class of golfer out to the courses, and quite a few of them lack the respect for the game to abide by the common courtesy rules of the game. If you want to debate that, fine. Doesn't really matter to me. I know that there's members out there who don't replace divots, fix ball marks, scuff mark the greens, etc. But I'd suggest that it's not primarily them.

Dan

LOL It's supposed to make you laugh Dan!!! I thought. the last liine "Don't forget to tell the golf fans" would have tipped off the sarcasm.

Second. You darn right I'm being stubborn in my defense. Everyone talks about the traditions and sportmanship and class of golf. You know what. Routing AGAINST another golfer does not exempllify the class of golf. When was the last time your heard a pro yell during another players shot. "Get in the water" "Get in the bushes" "Lip out ball, Lip out!"

The whole idea is you put your best against the other players best. What made PM"s masters win so awesome was he beat a solid final round by Ernie Els. He put his best game against the others and won. Would it have been as good if Els and the rest shot 75's coming in?? Probably not.

My point is this. He's the best in the world. Cheering against him because he doesn't "lacks the charisma to properly be an ambassador for the sport.". These kinds of comments drive me nuts. Because there's no factual evidence to support it. He has obviously been a tremendous figure for the game. He appeals to a much broader population. He has brought people to the game hat wouldn't have been there before. I'm sorry they don't meet up to Your standards. (Which makes you sound like an eliteist snob BTW. ). Most people aren't taught golf etiquette. There's no mentor. If etiquette is a big problem( and I dont' think it is ) then it's time the people who run golf courses and teach golf need to take responsibility for this. It's not up to the student to ask about things they don't know about. Maybe starters should remind people before they tee off to watch their etiquette. That's all you have to say. Plant the seed. No one and I mean NO ONE told me about golf etiquette. I knew the basics. The rest I learend on my own. I thank a few friends for this. If you dont' have friends who golf who is going to start you off??

[broken27]

You're fully entitled to your point of view (both Andru and Mike). Why can't you accept that mine is contrary, yet equally permissible is beyond me.

You say I sound like an elitist snob, but I'd be willing to bet that if you met me you'd have a hard time maintaining that point of view. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play, regardless of their etiquette (to a degree). I'm saying people should learn a bit more about how to play the game, not just watch Tiger play and think they can do it.

There's nothing to support Tiger being a good guy, any more than there is to support the notion that he's a self-centered guy. It's a coin toss, I suppose. But from what I've heard, he's not particularly a gracious loser, and I've seen him throw tantrums on the course for the stupidest reasons. Sure, he can handle a friggin train going by, but someone clicks a camera a hundred meters away and he loses it. To me, that is not at all cool. That's a big baby.

I don't particularly care to continue this discussion, seeing as how I don't think either side will convince the other.

Let's just enjoy the Open!

Dan

[Colby]

I don't remember Tiger wanting to be the ambassador of the game. Hi just wants to do his own thing and beet Jacks records. Hogan was a great player but was also viewed like a self-centered person. Hi was not a people person. I say live and let live.

Tiger is where he is in the world rankings cause of what he has done in past tournaments. Nobody up to date has done better and that’s why he is able to retain his ranking even if he not playing up to HIS slandered.

Tiger may not have signed up to be the ambassador of the game, but with his tremendous skill, his looks and the PR machine that is behind him, he has become the de-facto ambassador. People want to see Tiger, sponsors want Tiger at their events, charities want Tiger to speak for them. Kids idolize him. Some adults do also. When I was at the Buick Classic last year, there were several Tiger clones in the gallery. Nike hats, TW shirts, etc., just like a little army. Palmer was the King, Jack the Bear and Tiger is Tiger. It's fallen on Tiger's shoulders, wanted or not, to carry the torch of golf forward.

In 25-30 years will we hear stories like Mike Weir, writing to Jack and asking if he should switch from left-handed to right-handed, and Jack wrote back. Will we hear stories of Tiger answering emails like that. Somehow I doubt it. If he doesn't sign autographs at events, and I'm not the only one who thinks this see my post above from Bob Weeks at Score Magazine who said Tiger signs about as many autographs as scorecards that he submits, I don't see him writing letters back to kids. His PR machine might, I have no idea just a feeling.

Tiger's popularity is based on his incredible game, his accomplishments so far in his young life, his attractiveness and his PR machine. He has earned the #1 spot in the World Rankings and deserves all the credit for it. He did the work. He scored and won when he needed to. Now the #1 spot in the world rankings is up for grabs. If Els wins and Tiger finishes less than 6th at the US Open, Ernie will be the new #1. If Tiger misses the cut, highly unlikely, and Vijay wins, Vijay will be #1.

I have always been a Greg Norman fan. I like his swashbuckling style. Is he overly personable? Not from what I hear. So why do I like him? Who knows. I don't want to see Tiger beat his record of consecutive weeks at #1, but if Tiger does, then he's earned it, and all the congratulations to him. But I don't have to cheer for him.

[broken27]

So.... Colby finds Tiger attractive. Okay... Next topic.....

Dan

[Andru]

So.... Colby finds Tiger attractive. Okay... Next topic.....

Dan

As soon as you deifne a group of poeple like this "Tiger has brought a different class of golfer out to the courses" It makes you SOUND eliteist. I'm fairly certain you are not.

So we agree to disagree.

[broken27]

As soon as you deifne a group of poeple like this "Tiger has brought a different class of golfer out to the courses" It makes you SOUND eliteist. I'm fairly certain you are not.

So we agree to disagree.

Well, it may sound elitist, but the reference I am making is true. Before Tiger, guys like ME were a rare sight on a golf course. I'm a fairly "lunchpail" kind of guy, but before I ever went on a golf course, I read up on the basic rules of conduct. Unfortunately, with such an increase in popularity, you see more and more people who don't have the same scrupulous outlook on sports as I do. It's not opinion, it's a fact. Just look at some of the recent posts in this forum about guys playing the other guy's ball, or guys shooting up the butt of the group in front of them. Nothing elitist about that really. I didn't mean class as in income-level or upbringing.

But yes, fundamentally we agree to disagree.

Dan

[Colby]

So.... Colby finds Tiger attractive. Okay... Next topic.....

Dan

Easy there.

I much prefer his fiancee, but there are certain groups that find Tiger attractive, I was just quoting them.

[broken27]

Easy there.

I much prefer his fiancee, but there are certain groups that find Tiger attractive, I was just quoting them.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.......

Dan

[mberube]

I am not trying to change your mind or anyone else’s mind. I am just wondering why cheer against somebody. If Els wins this weekend and claims the number one spot, I will be very happy for him because he earned it. As I was when PM beat Els at the Masters. I like to see great competition but I would never root against a player because he does not sign autographs or because he makes a fit when he misses a shot he knows he should of made. I know I have lost my composure on certain shots. I f any of you have never cursed or reacted badly because of an awful shot well better sing up at the monastery. Tiger is human after all. There was a discussion on this last year on the Sprint pre-game. They were saying that most players on tour have those Tiger fits. The only difference is that no mater how badly Tiger plays, the TV is always on him. When Vijay, PM or any other players play badly, the cameras are not on them 18 holes long. I have seen Phil kick his bag twice after 4 putting in a major tournament.

Tell you what, If I hade the chance to play in the NHL I would of lived my life the way I wonted and not the way the public or the media would won me to conduct my self.

[broken27]

I am not trying to change your mind or anyone else’s mind. I am just wondering why cheer against somebody. If Els wins this weekend and claims the number one spot, I will be very happy for him because he earned it. As I was when PM beat Els at the Masters. I like to see great competition but I would never root against a player because he does not sign autographs or because he makes a fit when he misses a shot he knows he should of made. I know I have lost my composure on certain shots. I f any of you have never cursed or reacted badly because of an awful shot well better sing up at the monastery. Tiger is human after all. There was a discussion on this last year on the Sprint pre-game. They were saying that most players on tour have those Tiger fits. The only difference is that no mater how badly Tiger plays, the TV is always on him. When Vijay, PM or any other players play badly, the cameras are not on them 18 holes long. I have seen Phil kick his bag twice after 4 putting in a major tournament.

Tell you what, If I hade the chance to play in the NHL I would of lived my life the way I wonted and not the way the public or the media would won me to conduct my self.

The fact that the camera follows Tiger around so much is part of my problem, and part of the reason I want him to fade into obscurity. I'd like more variance in who I get to watch. I know it's not Tiger's fault, but it's a reason to cheer against him. If the network wants to force-feed me Tiger, then I'll root against him.

As for living your life the way you want if you had made the NHL, that's fine. But are you a * to begin with? If so, which I don't think is the case, then I'd root against you, much the way I root against those a-holes in Toronto.

[The Shtick]

Tiger is an ambassador... he changed the game and uped the standards. I'll give credit to him for that. Because of him, golfers make much more money than in the past....

Did he ASK for this?? Probably not... these things happen.

Hulk Hogan was an icon in wrestling in the 80's.... he was a horrible wrestler (technically). He still changed the way the industry promotes their product.

Look at J-Lo, can she act? NO. But people still like her.....

There are many people "waiting in the wings" and take advantage of the fact that Tiger Woods is having a bad year. They make more money by playing more.

I'm sure that I don't stand alone here: If Tiger played more, I'd have more respect for him. He has a passion for being the best and staying there.... more than his passion for the game itself.

[broken27]

Hulk Hogan was an icon in wrestling in the 80's.... he was a horrible wrestler (technically). He still changed the way the industry promotes their product.

Hmm... Was he a horrible technical wrestler, or was his choreographer bad? Let's make sure we're not pretending it's real....

Dan

[mberube]

He has a passion for being the best and staying there.... more than his passion for the game itself.

Who are you to say what passion Tiger or anyone else have about the game.
By the way, I meant Ben Hogan!

[mberube]

As for living your life the way you want if you had made the NHL, that's fine. But are you a * to begin with? If so, which I don't think is the case, then I'd root against you, much the way I root against those a-holes in Toronto.

I don't think I'm an *****hole but I am sure that giving out autographs to people that storm you because you are a known athlete is ridicules. I would get tired of this very fast and then I would be a marked man through media’s eyes. Tiger gives out allot of $$$ to his foundation helping kids. Why not look at his positive side instead of dissing him cause he curses or cause he doesn’t sing a ball or a hat that will be probably sold on ebay.

Hockey, football, baseball, the list goes on where pro players curses at each other or at the referees. Why is that different from golf? I hate to watch players like Goosen ho has no emotions at all regardless of what shot he made. I find that boooooring. At least Tiger is human.

[broken27]

I don't think I'm an *****hole but I am sure that giving out autographs to people that storm you because you are a known athlete is ridicules. I would get tired of this very fast and then I would be a marked man through media’s eyes. Tiger gives out allot of $$$ to his foundation helping kids. Why not look at his positive side instead of dissing him cause he curses or cause he doesn’t sing a ball or a hat that will be probably sold on ebay.

Hockey, football, baseball, the list goes on where pro players curses at each other or at the referees. Why is that different from golf? I hate to watch players like Goosen ho has no emotions at all regardless of what shot he made. I find that boooooring. At least Tiger is human.

If you don't want to sign autographs, the best way to accomplish it is by not becoming famous. Then, nobody wants a piece of your time. Nobody is suggesting that Tiger should spend all of his free time doing that anyway. What I'm saying is that he should devote a part of his time at events (practice days or after rounds) trying to put smiles on the faces of his fans. Let's face it, without his fans, he'd just be some putz who is good at golf. It's the fans that put the money into pro sports, not the athletes as many of you Tiger supporters would have us believe. Sure, a lot of it is corporate money, but if nobody was watching, they wouldn't be so quick to ante up.

Just because people cursing at each other or at referees is common in other sports doesn't make it good or right. I personally can't stand players like Darcy Tucker who never shut their fat yaps. I prefer a guy like Steve Yzerman, who quietly goes about his business, and has time for his fans. He used to own a house at the end of my parents' street (Madawaska Drive if any of you doubt me), and I walked up to his door and knocked, just to thank him for the enjoyment he had brought to my life by being such a class act and great hockey player. He invited me in and we spent 2 hours just talking about stuff. I doubt Tiger would extend me the same hospitality....

To each his own. Again, nobody is telling you NOT to like Tiger. I'm just saying that I don't.

Dan

[NoBack]

I don't think I'm an *****hole but I am sure that giving out autographs to people that storm you because you are a known athlete is ridicules. I would get tired of this very fast and then I would be a marked man through media’s eyes.

Ok I think i get it now. Why should a pro athlete sign an autgraph for anybody. You are absolutely right. To hell with those who paid $200 to see them play their sport. To hell with the little tykes who admire and aspire to be like them. To hell with all of us who actually watch the game. You're right and I'm wrong. I should keep paying thier salaries without expecting anything of them.

Tiger gives out allot of $$$ to his foundation helping kids. Why not look at his positive side instead of dissing him

Again you are absolutely right. You would rather see him sign a check than than sign a 5 year old's hat or give his time which is more personable and more of memory for some kid than the $$$ will ever be.

Hockey, football, baseball, the list goes on where pro players curses at each other or at the referees. Why is that different from golf?

Yeah and during those games it is absolutley gentlemany and quiet like it in golf. I think you got your apples and oranges mixed up.

Side note......................... I am a changed man........ I love :readheart Tiger He has the rest of those bozos right where he wants them. Thinking he out of it already. Only 6 back and staring them down waiting for the right time to make his move.

[Farzin]

Tiger is an ambassador... he changed the game and uped the standards. I'll give credit to him for that. Because of him, golfers make much more money than in the past....

Stop it right here Shtick, Before you become one of Tiger lovers . The way it's going, The next OGT Ryder cup even't will be between Tiger Lovers and Tiger Bashers.
Steve will be the captain for Bashers and the first pick will be Broken. the captin for tiger lovers would be

[broken27]

If that's what passes for attractive these days...... :shake

Dan

[Kilroy]

OGT Ryder cup even't will be between Tiger Lovers and Tiger Bashers...Steve will be the captain for Bashers and the first pick will be Broken. the captin for tiger lovers would be

Ahem... er,,, Don't drag the tour into this one.

Go ahead,... build a team and mount a challenge tho

Farzins Fanatics; Must be a Tiger lover and own at least one "Frank" headcover.

I gonna have to sit out, since I have no strong opinion. Tiger's a great golfer, who happens to have a lot to deal with. He's not the first, but the bar of what must be tolerated on the PGA Tour has been raised. He is the one who raised it. He happens to be human. I like good competitive golf and I see no reason to diss any of the best players in the world. It's not like they are bad people or anything. Just not as perfect as we'd like them to be.

[Farzin]

If that's what passes for attractive these days...... :shake

Dan

[broken27]

If that's what passes for attractive these days...... :shake

Dan

I suppose I should clarify that I was being sarcastic before you all assume I'm gay or crazy!

She's definitely hot, but she looks like a girl from one of the movies that was on MXS last night (I got free porn for signing up for Rogers Digital and the wife is away). A little too s|utty for my taste.

Dan

[Farzin]

Farzins Fanatics; Must be a Tiger lover and own at least one "Frank" headcover.

I don't have Frank's head cove but realy like to have one from Elin.

[Andru]

Let's face it, without his fans, he'd just be some putz who is good at golf. It's the fans that put the money into pro sports, not the athletes as many of you Tiger supporters would have us believe. Sure, a lot of it is corporate money, but if nobody was watching, they wouldn't be so quick to ante up.
Dan

Well. I don't think anyone disputes this or even implied this. There are more people watching the PGA tour than there were before Tiger. This is indisputable. I hope you didn't intentionally distort the context.

[broken27]

Well. I don't think anyone disputes this or even implied this. There are more people watching the PGA tour than there were before Tiger. This is indisputable. I hope you didn't intentionally distort the context.

Everyone implied this when they talked about how the purses went up because of Tiger. I was just clarifying that it's not Tiger's money, it's OUR money.

Dan

[Andru]

Everyone implied this when they talked about how the purses went up because of Tiger. I was just clarifying that it's not Tiger's money, it's OUR money.

Dan

It's true isn't it. I don't care who's money it is. The point is the money wasn't there before Tiger and the other PGA tour players are padding their collective pockets now becuase of Tiger. Do you really think there would be 7 million dollar purses if Tiger never appeared on the scene. The PGA and golf in general would still have the same single digit growth and probably the "right" class of person playing the weekend round. HEHE Sorry I had to.