Solheim Cup

[mpare]

The Solheim is being contested this week. Lest you think that the ladies don't play exciting golf, think again. These matches should be first rate. Let's hope that some of their competitive fires rub off on those of us who will be in Belleville next week. If that is not enough to entice you to tune in, have a look at these USA team photos on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...4&l=498b7d9c92 Wow.

[NoBack]

Caught a bit of the Captain's press conferences this afternoon.
Looks liek it will be fun week for sure. Gotta luv team events!!

[3Jack]

Mainstream publicity fail. I had no idea the Solheim Cup was this week.

[Golfbum]

Mainstream publicity fail. I had no idea the Solheim Cup was this week.

Of course you will take this the wrong way since I is coming from me. However have you been hiding under a rock in a dark cave?


This event has been mentioned for at least the past month on the Golf Channel.

[fundonny]

Golf channel is not mainstream GB.

[Golfbum]

Golf channel is not mainstream GB.

Come on Donny. every cable company carries TGC. How can you say it is not mainstream?

Then again I work in the golf business so maybe that is why I am more aware of it than most of the members of this forum. I am sure others who are involved with golf as a business knew about the Solheim Cup.

For those who want to learn more about the Solheim Cup.

The least I can do on my last post on the subject.

[jonf]

Gotta pay extra for TGC with Rogers. Haven't had the golf channel for about 3 years

[sensfan63]

Come on Donny. every cable company carries TGC. How can you say it is not mainstream?

Then again I work in the golf business so maybe that is why I am more aware of it than most of the members of this forum. I am sure others who are involved with golf as a business knew about the Solheim Cup.

For those who want to learn more about the Solheim Cup.

The least I can do on my last post on the subject.

Not intended to knock anyone, but aren't you a course ranger/marshal? I wouldn't equate that with the "golf business." However, if you work in the proshop, I stand corrected.

And I can vouch for anyone who lives in Ottawa that Golf Channel isn't part of the regular cable lineup...shameful !!!

[Kilroy]

I'd disagree with your contention that marshals and backshop workers are not in the golf business. At the very least they are working in the industry and that is part of the business. Certainly they would be more involved in discussions around all aspects of golf than someone working in another environment.

[Golfbum]

Not intended to knock anyone, but aren't you a course ranger/marshal? I wouldn't equate that with the "golf business." However, if you work in the proshop, I stand corrected.

And I can vouch for anyone who lives in Ottawa that Golf Channel isn't part of the regular cable lineup...shameful !!!

As Dan says, rangers, etc are part of the golf industry.

For your information so you know in the future. I work in the Club Storage Area of the club. I also work as a starter at that course.
I also work part time in a golf retail store.

So I guess that counts as working in the golf business. Since I talk to golfers 4 days a week while working and another couple of days a week while golfing with them.

[sensfan63]

As Dan says, rangers, etc are part of the golf industry.

For your information so you know in the future. I work in the Club Storage Area of the club. I also work as a starter at that course.
I also work part time in a golf retail store.

So I guess that counts as working in the golf business. Since I talk to golfers 4 days a week while working and another couple of days a week while golfing with them.

I painted with a broad brush, I'll admit that. Obviously you're heavily involved at a golf club.

However, I've seen a lot of rangers and marshals (especially in the Florida area) that know nothing of the game, hence my contention. This, evidently, does not include you.

[3Jack]

Back to my earlier point though, I should have been a bit clearer in regard to my definition of mainstream media - I'm talking about your morning paper, your sport highlight show of choice, your major media bookmarks. Solheim Cup just isn't on the radar.

Of course Golf Channel is all over it as they should be, but regardless of whether they are included on certain cable packages, Golf Channel is still a specialty channel, not unlike Speed, Food Network, or W.

[3Jack]

Of course you will take this the wrong way since I is coming from me. However have you been hiding under a rock in a dark cave?


This event has been mentioned for at least the past month on the Golf Channel.

Au contraire, I don't take umbridge with everything you say. Different opinions make the board interesting!

[Golfbum]

Back to my earlier point though, I should have been a bit clearer in regard to my definition of mainstream media - I'm talking about your morning paper, your sport highlight show of choice, your major media bookmarks. Solheim Cup just isn't on the radar.

Of course Golf Channel is all over it as they should be, but regardless of whether they are included on certain cable packages, Golf Channel is still a specialty channel, not unlike Speed, Food Network, or W.

Of course this is typical media coverage of ladies professional golf. Rarely do you see major articles in the press when it comes to the LPGA. Same thing goes for network coverage.

It is a shame that the LPGA gets treated like this. I have been to two LPGA events in London and both were great to watch.

As the commercial says "These Ladies Rock"

[sillywilly]

womens golf is boring!!!! it does nothing for me

[mpare]

What a surprise! We say white, you say, black. We say, new; you say old. And on and on it goes.

Would your dislike be predicated on the fact that these women can bang it past you with impunity?

womens golf is boring!!!! it does nothing for me

[sillywilly]

that might have something to do with it

but in all honesty, i'm more impressed by 8i going 200 yards so I like mens golf. Watching womens golf is like playing golf with indio

[mpare]

Watch it. That's my golf partner you're talking about!

If length is the only thing that draws you to golf, then I can understand your feelings. I think that you are missing out on a lot of the game's nuances, but that is a topic for another thread. For myself, I think that these women can play amazing and exciting golf. More to the point, I think that the competition will be riveting. Besides, I always learn a lot about strategy and mechanics watching them play, since my game is a lot more comparable in terms of distance to theirs than it is to the sluggers on the PGA Tour.

that might have something to do with it

but in all honesty, i'm more impressed by 8i going 200 yards so I like mens golf. Watching womens golf is like playing golf with indio

[3Jack]

womens golf is boring!!!! it does nothing for me

I'd agree with this, with the caveat that women's golf on TV is boring.

Women's golf in person, is great. I've been the see the professional ladies all three times they've come here to Ottawa. They are tremendous ambassadors of the game, are far more accessible than their male counterparts, and have games to which most men can more readily relate, distance wise, and therefore, course management wise.

[3Jack]

Of course this is typical media coverage of ladies professional golf. Rarely do you see major articles in the press when it comes to the LPGA. Same thing goes for network coverage.

It is a shame that the LPGA gets treated like this. I have been to two LPGA events in London and both were great to watch.

As the commercial says "These Ladies Rock"

Typical media coverage is only typical because it is a reflection of what we want to read and what we want to watch. It's an unfortunate function of the media. Happily, the internet and specialty tv now provides makes things such as women's professional golf more accessible.

If anything, I personally would take issue with the LPGA Tour and how that organization has failed to capitalize more positively on the exploits of some very talented players of the last 20 years. Since Ty Votaw left, and Bivens took over (and was subsequently ushered out the door this summer), the LPGA Tour has been hemmoraging tournaments due to a lack of sponsors.

Bivens was an outright disaster as commissioner, drawing hard lines when it came to demands from long-standing sponsors (McDonald's to name just one), and created ridiculous gaps in the tour's playing schedule that left most guessing as to when the next tournament was. Blaming mainstream media for a lack of LPGA coverage fails to take the internal problems of the LPGA and how they have chosen to conduct business into account.

The LPGA will get it's due when, as an organization, they've earned it, and when the masses really begin to care about womens' sport as much as they do mens.

[sensfan63]

and when the masses really begin to care about womens' sport as much as they do mens.

This ^ is what it boils down to.

Men hit it farther. They wedge it better. They chip better. They putt better (which I always found strange...thought that a "woman's touch" would help with putting ). Is it any wonder the men's game is more popular?

It's like trying to compare women's hockey with the NHL.

[sillywilly]

agreed, womens hockey also sucks

[3Jack]

Now that we're done bashing women's sports, how 'bout that Solheim Cup eh!

[fundonny]

We're a shallow gender. But we are what we are.

[mpare]

Your comments intrigued me so I decided to check the stats for the PGA Tour and the LPGA. The stats support some of your contentions and may undermine others. Unfortunately, the LPGA does not publish detailed stats like the PGA. However, there is enough information available to make some comparisons.

1. Driving Distance. I did not bother looking at this closely, since it is clearly obvious that the men bang it out much further than the women. What may surprise more than a few on this site is that the top women players would bang it past most good amateur players with ease.

2. Driving Accuracy. The women have it hands down on the men in this regard. The top 16 women hit from .834 to .759 of the fairways. The top 16 men range from .7393 to 6998. The lesson for us may be that unless you can hit the ball at PGA Tour distances there is a real advantage to staying in the fairway. BCMist will attest to this, I am sure.

3. Green in Regulation. Here too, the women have an advantage over the men. The numbers for the top 16 women ranges from .761 to .700. The top 16 men hit from .7107 to .6827 of their targets.

4. Putts per round. The men have an advantage here. The top 11 women take from 28.170 to 28.920 putts per round. The men, by comparison, range from 27.64 to 28.36.

5. Putts Per Greens Hit. Here the stats are surprisingly comparable. The top 16 women average from 1.74 to 1.77 per green hit. The same number of men, from 1.721 to 1.742. This tells me that the women are damn good with the flat stick.

6. Sand Saves. One stat that demonstrates a remarkable advantage for the men is sand saves. Here the top 16 men get it up and down from 67.86 to 58.10 percent of the time. The women average from 58.8 to 50 percent of their tries.

All of that said, I'll be glued to the tube in the next three days watching these matches. I'll enjoy myself and learn a lot about how the game should be played.

This ^ is what it boils down to.

Men hit it farther. They wedge it better. They chip better. They putt better (which I always found strange...thought that a "woman's touch" would help with putting ). Is it any wonder the men's game is more popular?

It's like trying to compare women's hockey with the NHL.

[Kilroy]

Great post Mike!

[fundonny]

Not really Dan. The top 16 hardly gives the true impression. I'd be interested in the top 100, that would be more indicative.

[mpare]

What would the top 100 tell you about how the best in each category compares, especially since the pool of players in the PGA Tour is so much larger than the LPGA? Nothing particularly meaningful, in my opinion, but you clearly see it differently.

You are probably correct that the "average" PGA Tour player has better stats in some categories than the LPGA players. So what. I'm not interested in watching the "average" player from either tour. I'm interested in watching the women who are playing this week. As I have said before, these ladies can play, they have fun, and they look great. That is more than enough for me ... that and the realization that they would kick our as...es all over the course had we the temerity to challenge them to a game.

Not really Dan. The top 16 hardly gives the true impression. I'd be interested in the top 100, that would be more indicative.

[sensfan63]

Your comments intrigued me so I decided to check the stats for the PGA Tour and the LPGA. The stats support some of your contentions and may undermine others. Unfortunately, the LPGA does not publish detailed stats like the PGA. However, there is enough information available to make some comparisons.

Good research. I will break it down a little further.

Of course, driving accuracy would favor the women. Why? A shot travelling shorter has a smaller dispersion. I will hit more hybrids and three-woods in the fairway than I will drivers. It's all math. Who do we see typically leading driving accuracy stats? Corey Pavin and Fred Funk. In the past, Calvin Peete. All extremely short hitters.

Also related to driving accuracy is width of fairways. We all know whose fairways are tighter.

In terms of GIR, obviously the driving accuracy stat will help the GIR stat. Also, the length of rough also prevents a lot of players from keeping higher GIR stats.

(as an aside, look for GIR stats to tumble somewhat next year with the new grooves rules. Testing that has been done already seems to indicate that spin from the rough will be reduced roughly 50% with a wedge.)

Now to putting. Those putts/GIR stats are the true indicator of putting prowess. I took a look at the PGA Tour stats, and went farther down the list. You get to 72nd on the PGA Tour before you get to someone who averages 1.77 (that was 16th for women, remember).

Anyways, although it may seem like it, I don't hate women's golf. I know several LPGA Tour pros and respect their games. But make no mistake, any PGA Tour, European Tour, or Nationwide Tour player would lead the money list on the LPGA Tour. That's ok. There's nothing wrong with that. It's just different.

Ummm...go USA in the Solheim Cup! (just to keep it on topic)

[Golfbum]

I said earlier that I have watched two LPGA events in person over the past years.

Let me say this. 50% of those women could blow it past 75% of the guys posting on this forum.

I watched SeRi Pak smooth one on a par 4, 285, dead centre of the fairway.

I do agree that women do not seem to putt as well as the top PGA putters do.

But their short games are fantastic.

Plus they are super friendly when you watch them in person. During one practice round at the London Hunt Club I chatted with Christina Kim and she is a fun lady to talk to. Very outgoing, quite willing to stop and sign autographs and poise for pictures. Most of the women were like that.

Watching them on the range was fun also. Don't kid yourself, they can hit fades, draws, knockdowns etc.

I happen to enjoy watching the women play golf. Now the big issue on the LPGA seems to be the Asian women that are dominating the tour. Some say this will ruin the LPGA.

I do not care what nationality the ladies are as long as they are good. If North American women golfers can not compete then so be it.

BTW, I watched some of the ladies U.S. Amateur and those young ladies can golf their balls.

Take time to watch the Solheim Cup and you will see that those ladies get as fired up about this event as the men do when it comes to the Ryder Cup.