Chateau Cartier #5 a par 4 or 5 from blues

[DIbit]

Just wanted to know from the scorecard, does #5 play as a par 5 or 4 from the blue tees?

http://www.chateaucartier.com/pdf/score-card.pdf

[hoolio]

I don't know the correct answer, but that hole should never play as a par 5. Unless someone's only shot is a cold-top, the hole probably only plays about 410 yards from the back tees.

I'd actually like to see them add about 25-35 yards to the hole so that you don't have to worry about hitting it into the waste bunker off the tee. It would also make it a much more interesting hole.

[Dunny]

It is a par 4 from the blues

[Kilroy]

It's a par 5 for the ladies.

[DIbit]

I guess that makes sense, as the rating for blue is 69.4 and 68.7 from the whites.
I usually have 8 iron to LW into that green.
I was also wondering, cause if I was playing a straight up match with someone and they played the whites and I played the blues, essentially I am giving them a stroke, despite only a 10 yard difference.

[DIbit]

So it is a par 5 for the ladies and mens white tees and a par 4 for the blue tees.
Also, did you notice that is the #1 handicap hole for men?!? How can that be?
If you play the whites and it is a par5, then it should be around 9 handicap... only touble on the right. But a 1 handicap from the blues as a par 4.

[Kilroy]

It's only a par 5 if you are female. For men it's a par 4 from both decks. It's a long one so it is the #1 hcp which makes sense.

[tmacgolf]

Interesting. The score card clearly shows it as a par 5 for ladies, but under the men's column it is listed as 4/5 with the the men's 9 hole par also listed as 35/36. Is that perhaps for male juniors? Otherwise, it is completely logical to assume that the two tees play a different par for that hole. What on that card tells us that it is always a par 4 for men?
Thanks

[stevek]

Renfrew had a few holes like this but have built new tee-boxes for the 'beginners', I believe this was to eliminate the difference in strokes between the 'beginners' and others.

[Kilroy]

Hmmm I had not noticed the extra row for ladies. What I was saying is a normal convention on scorecards. I suppose it must refer to juniors in this case, but a call to the pro shop should yield a definitive answer.

[Ruskie]

I don't know why everyone is so surprised at the hole not being a Par 4 from the whites. It's ridiculously difficult for your average duffer as a 4 - a tee shot of 220-230 leaves you about 180 to the green, 160 of which is carry. Wind is usually strong and shifty. Water short, water right, trees and water long, bunker left (or deep woods further left). The only place you can miss it is short-left. Not to mention that when those bushes lining the right bank fill out in the summer, the second shot is blind. For the average Joe, this makes it a monster par 4, or a relatively short but tricky par 5 (remember those waste area for the layup shot).

Now, if you're playing the blues, you shouldn't break a sweat over the second shot and it makes for a tough but reasonable par 4.

[Kilroy]

Interesting and sound theory.

[Chieflongtee]

Par 4 from the blues
Par 5 from the whites

see scorecard
http://www.chateaucartier.com/pdf/score-card.pdf

71 par from the blues
72 par from the whites

1 handicap for the men
13 for women

[adam]

I got the impression that it played as a 5 from the whites from the scorecard as well.
They really have to re-measure the hole though because I have never seen it play longer than 410-420 yards.

[hoolio]

They really have to re-measure the hole though because I have never seen it play longer than 410-420 yards.

I would say 410 is even on the high side, and It seems like it plays down wind every time I play it (always play #7 & 8 back into the wind). While I'm sure I hit it further than the average golfer, I don't think I'm a monster off the tee and if I hit the fairway there, it's usually nothing more than a GW or PW into the green.

The green itself is a very good size and while there isn't a huge buffer around the green to miss, it's not a straight drop into the water.

I would say that even if you played it as a par 4, the 10th hole is still at least 25% harder and it's probably 60-70 yards shorter.

[Chieflongtee]

I got the impression that it played as a 5 from the whites from the scorecard as well.
They really have to re-measure the hole though because I have never seen it play longer than 410-420 yards.

It could play as measured if you stayed on dry land. I believe it is measured that way. Now if you take the short cut over the water if you hit a decent drive slightly to the left then it will play a lot shorter.

[adam]

I played it downwind at the beginning of the season Driver -> 58* wedge and am not really a long hitter (250-275). Even if measured along the fairway I doubt it would make it to the 455-465 listed on the card.

[Chieflongtee]

I played it downwind at the beginning of the season Driver -> 58* wedge and am not really a long hitter (250-275). Even if measured along the fairway I doubt it would make it to the 455-465 listed on the card.

A 5 iron to a back pin @ Champlain number #11 is not what I would call a short hitter

[adam]

A 5 iron to a back pin @ Champlain number #11 is not what I would call a short hitter

Just gotta hit it a little low, land the front fringe and roll to the back. Yep works every time

[Sakuraba]

... I don't think I'm a monster off the tee...

Although it pains me to say this, you hit it as far or farther than anyone I've ever played with. that = monster.

Back on topic, can anyone think of another hole like this in the valley?

[macspesh]

Too bad #12 isn't a par 5. For me, that's one tough par 4

[Chieflongtee]

Too bad #12 isn't a par 5. For me, that's one tough par 4

That's because 11 is a give away

[hoolio]

Too bad #12 isn't a par 5. For me, that's one tough par 4

I agree with you there, that hole plays considerably longer than #5 as it seems like the prevailing wind is into your face. For anyone who doesn't have a high ball flight where they can carry the trees, they're faced at hitting a draw around to stay in the fairway or risk going off to the right into the small trees between 12 & 13.

3 relatively short par 5's back-to-back-to-back would seem rather stupid.

[DIbit]

Well, it is a par 4 from the blues...
I played it today from the blues and it was downwind. Took an easier swing with the driver (as I had the hooks) and had 140 in. PW, 2 putt and a 4.
The tee was at the back and I think the hole plays less than 465, but more than 410.
BTW.. #10 should be the hardest hole... (dead left and right)
was 2 over after 9..then a 7! on 10. (water, drop, right in hazard)

When you think of #2, they are pretty much the same distance, but you usually have a right to left wind and it plays down hill. That green is not very wide though and protected left and right with bunkers.
Anyways.. 1st time playing it this year and it is in the best shape ever! Greens were actually fast!

[irish_OG]

Just played Chartier yesterday for the 1st time - great spot!!

# 5 does seem shorter than the score card reads - hit driver to the 150 mark then 2nd shot pin high - i played it as a par 5 and 2 putted for bird - ya'h i'm taking the birdie!

# 10 is the not that great for a righty with a fade - i lost my 1st drive onto the highway - my second one I got slighty more aggresive and put it over the pond on the left with abit of draw and when it hit it spun even more left and landed 50 yrds from the green - went up and down for a bog save ......

# 11 tee box is ridiculous - if you hit from the whites/blues its right through 8 foot weeds (not sure if that part of the hole - to go PW off the tee?? maybe they are slacking on the maintenance) - we hit from the small opening to right - put it just off the front edge of the green - made par - that and 18 tee box are the best for cranking your drive.......

i'd play this course more often but all the spots through Rm book so quickly......