Alex Rios Gone

[mpare]

Chicago picked up Rios off waivers yesterday. No compensation was paid to Toronto. Are the owners trying to strip the team of all of its assets? One can only assume that to be the case given that they will not commit to reinvesting the salary savings in next year's roster. It's not surprising that their fan base is eroding. A losing product on the field will do that.

[jeffc]

Toronto will never be able to compete in the AL East when Boston and NY spend whatever they want to to bring in the best talent. This is another reason why MLB baseball IMHO is a joke.

[Golfer_Gofer]

Alex Rios was batting .264 with 14 homeruns being paid 11.6 million a year.

Toronto being a small market like it is can't afford to keep inflated salaries like Rios' J.P. was trying to move him, and had no luck, nobody wanted to give up roster players for a player who goes on cold streaks like Alex does.

This is not a bad thing, I'll miss him when he's hitting the ball well, but I wont for all the times he struck out in clutch situations.

[spackler]

Toronto is not a small market, it is in the top half of markets in MLB. Also, unlike New York, LA, Chicago, Washington, and San Fran, it does not have to share it's market with another team. If you divided those markets in two, 1/2 the market for each team, only NY, LA and the single markets of Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit and Dallas are bigger. So that puts the Jays in the top 10.

In addition to that, the owners of the team own the stadium, the main TV broadcaster, and the cable network that the broadcaster is carried on. Rogers makes every cent there is to be made off of the Jays, they don't have to share it with media partners or stadium owners.

The Jays do just fine revenue-wise. To blame their competitive situation on anything other than the way the team is managed is to let the ownership and management off the hook. Ricciardi gave Rios that dumb contract in the first place.

[Golfer_Gofer]

Toronto is not a small market, it is in the top half of markets in MLB. Also, unlike New York, LA, Chicago, Washington, and San Fran, it does not have to share it's market with another team. If you divided those markets in two, 1/2 the market for each team, only NY, LA and the single markets of Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit and Dallas are bigger. So that puts the Jays in the top 10.

In addition to that, the owners of the team own the stadium, the main TV broadcaster, and the cable network that the broadcaster is carried on. Rogers makes every cent there is to be made off of the Jays, they don't have to share it with media partners or stadium owners.

The Jays do just fine revenue-wise. To blame their competitive situation on anything other than the way the team is managed is to let the ownership and management off the hook. Ricciardi gave Rios that dumb contract in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending J.P. I think he's awful and hope managment replaces him this off season. I am just saying that getting rid of Rios was a good thing for the team and a needed step to move forward. Its obvious that Rogers JR. has his own 'Salary Cap' for the team and Toronto needs to ditch some under acheiving salary in order to fix major problems with their bullpin.

I hope Wells is next to go.

Aaron Hill for president though!

[jeffc]

while it may not be a small market, the overall interest in baseball in Toronto is small compared to those markets. One could argue that Toronto is Canada's team but that may be stretching things.

Atlanta, New Jersery, LA and New York (Islanders) are huge markets for hockey but for the most part people could care less about those teams and as such they draw very few fans.

Again, if they were in another division, there might be hope but it is near impossible, year in and year out to compete with 2 teams that spend $40M and $120M more than you a year. Since there are only 4 playoff spots in the AL if they can't make it to the playoffs, they can't win. End of story.

[spackler]

I grew up in Toronto and people care about the Blue Jays, from 1983-93 they were bigger than the Maple Leafs. Things only went downhill when Interbrew bought Labatt and the Jays became a corporate afterthought. Rogers has owned the team, and all that surrounds it, for a while now and the old excuses don't add up anymore. They have the resources to be competitive, but are completely mismanaging them. Ricciardi should've been fired years ago, more money should be spent on drafting and development. Buying the best scouts is not expensive, and is a lot cheaper than giving Vernon Wells $120M. It's more than possible to knock off the Red Sox or Yankees, but fans have to demand that the team be more accountable and not make excuses for them about being a small market team.

[jeffc]

Sure they can knock off of one of those teams but to compete consistently year in, year out against them is VERY difficult. I remember the early TO teams as I grew up an hour from TO and yes, they were big. Baseball in Canada was bigger then, new team that kept getting better and better every year but this was before the economics of baseball today. I won't discount they haven't been managed properly, but my arguement still stands. Baseball is by and large an individual sport and relies significantly less on team dynamics than sports like hockey, football, and basketball. It's easier to go spend a bundle to get good talent and put them on the field then worry so much about how they might fit into to the team.

BTW, I remember going to Lynx games when the first arrived and the stadium was full. Baseball just isn't as popular now as it was 15-20 years ago in Canada.

[spackler]

If the team is not competitive, and fans feel that it is a hopeless situation, then yes, it is definitely hard to fill the stands. I just refuse to believe that it has to be hopeless. The Marlins have won the World Series twice since the Jays last won it. I think since 1993 the Jays, along with the Royals, Pirates and Nationals/Expos are the only teams not to make the playoffs? There's no excuse for that. Both Tampa and Baltimore have made it out of the AL East, it's not impossible.

[jeffc]

If the team is not competitive, and fans feel that it is a hopeless situation, then yes, it is definitely hard to fill the stands.

Dave, have you hear of the Leafs?

[jeffc]

btw, it's not hopeless or impossible, just very very difficult to compete year in and year out. Boston and NY will not win every year, though they will will the vast majority of time. In 15 years, since the Jays won in 93, only 2 teams other than NY and Boston have won the AL East.

1994 (through August 11) New York Yankees§ 70-43 .619 No Playoffs
1995 (starting April 25, 144 G) Boston Red Sox 86-58 .597 Lost ALDS to Cleveland, 3-0
1996 New York Yankees 92-70 .568 Won World Series over Atlanta, 4-2
1997 Baltimore Orioles 98-64 .605 Lost ALCS to Cleveland, 4-2
1998 New York Yankees 114-48 .704 Won World Series over San Diego, 4-0
1999 New York Yankees 98-64 .605 Won World Series over Atlanta, 4-0
2000 New York Yankees 87-74 .540 Won World Series over New York, 4-1
2001 New York Yankees 95-65 .594 Lost World Series to Arizona, 4-3
2002 New York Yankees 103-58 .640 Lost ALDS to Anaheim, 3-1
2003 New York Yankees 101-61 .623 Lost World Series to Florida, 4-2
2004 New York Yankees 101-61 .623 Lost ALCS to Boston, 4-3
2005 New York Yankees†† 95-67 .586 Lost ALDS to Los Angeles, 3-2
2006 New York Yankees 97-65 .599 Lost ALDS to Detroit, 3-1
2007 Boston Red Sox 96-66 .593 Won World Series over Colorado, 4-0
2008 Tampa Bay Rays 97-65 .599 Lost World Series to Philadelphia, 4-1

now let's look at the wildcard - only one team other than NY or Boston has claimed it in the east.

1995 New York Yankees 79-65 .549 7 Lost ALDS to Seattle, 3-2
1996 Baltimore Orioles 88-74 .543 4 Lost ALCS to New York, 4-1
1997 New York Yankees 96-66 .593 2 Lost ALDS to Cleveland, 3-2
1998 Boston Red Sox 92-70 .568 22 Lost ALDS to Cleveland, 3-1
1999 Boston Red Sox 94-68 .580 4 Lost ALCS to New York, 4-1
2003 Boston Red Sox 95-67 .586 6 Lost ALCS to New York, 4-3
2004 Boston Red Sox 98-64 .605 3 Won World Series over St. Louis, 4-0
2005 Boston Red Sox 95-67 .586 0 Lost ALDS to Chicago, 3-0
2007 New York Yankees 94-68 .580 2 Lost ALDS to Cleveland, 3-1
2008 Boston Red Sox 95-67 .586 2 Lost ALCS to Tampa Bay, 4-3

I rest my case.

[Cruban]

very difficult indeed, good stats
as for Rios, good riddance, next up is Wells

[spackler]

I realize that the Yankees and Boston win the vast majority of the time, I`m just saying it doesn't have to be that way. And as you point out, other teams do get in from time to time. Tampa (last year, maybe this year) and Baltimore (twice in the playoffs) have done it with less resources than the Jays have available to them, so why keep making excuses for Toronto?

I am admittedly a very frustrated Jays fan.

[jeffc]

but how as a fan, do you get excited about the Jays knowing the are a proverbial long shot every year. For me that would turn me off being a fan (and does). I just don't like how the system is set-up. NYY make so much $ they can afford to pay whatever luxury tax is imposed on them. And I wouldn't call 3 for 26 time to time ;-)......more like once in a blue moon.

[Cruban]

their only shot is in the development of prospects, a la Snider, Lind, Romero, lock them up through their prime, hope they pan out and add some fillers, easy isnt it....

[spackler]

That doesn't mean you excuse them for it. Just because the Yankees and Red Sox win most of the time doesn't mean it's ok to give up. The Jays have plenty of resources, what they don't have is direction. If they decide they can't, or don't want to compete with the big boys on free agents, fine, then beef up your player development system. Prospects not only develop and fill spots on the major league roster, they are currency that can be spent in trades to fill other needs as well. If they decide they aren't contenders, don't opt for the status quo. Spend your assets in a way that helps you become a contender. Don't announce Halladay is for sale, and then not sell him. You alienate your fan base, and don't get anything in return. It's stupid. Keep him and build around him, or sell him and build from the proceeds. Just don't do nothing, they have to move toward something.

The Jays situation has more to do with incompetence than competitive disadvantage.

[mpare]

The corporation appears to know little of the business of baseball, and the baseball men who advise them appear equally inept. Maybe the owners simply do not want to make the kinds of investments that are needed in order to succeed. If that's the case, then they should sell the team and stick to what they do well. Baseball isn't one of those things.