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[faldo]

[B]You may be thinking of Rule 25-1b(ii)(a) In a Bunker:

If a bunker is completely covered in casual water, it is impossible to find relief from interference by casual water in the bunker.

Maximum available relief provides that the player take relief from interference by the casual water by dropping the ball in the casual water, but at the point of maximum available relief (ie. in a shallow spot).[/QUOTE][/B]
Having to drop back into a bunker filled with water just amazes me.

Should the course not declare this kind of area as some-kind-of ground-under-repair?

Can we use a club (or foot) to dredge a hole in the side of the 'Pond" & let it drain down to a useable level?

[Kilroy]

I doubt that would be allowed.

Other options in a water filled bunker;

1. Take it out of the bunker and drop within 2 club lengths of the NPR from the bunker, no closer to the hole, under penalty of 1 stroke.
   (If that point is in casual water too, then you'd take free relief after your drop under the abnormal ground condition rule.)
2. Declare it unplayable, then options are
   1. drop within 2 clublengths of where you are
   2. go back as far as you like on a line extended from the flag through the ball and beyond.
   3. return to where you last hit under penalty of stroke and distance

[BC MIST]

I doubt that would be allowed.

Other options in a water filled bunker;

1. Take it out of the bunker and drop within 2 club lengths of the NPR from the bunker, no closer to the hole, under penalty of 1 stroke.
   (If that point is in casual water too, then you'd take free relief after your drop under the abnormal ground condition rule.)
2. Declare it unplayable, then options are
   1. drop within 2 clublengths of where you are
   2. go back as far as you like on a line extended from the flag through the ball and beyond.
   3. return to where you last hit under penalty of stroke and distance

I stand to be corrected but I believe that if you declare the ball unplayable in a bunker, #2 from above does not apply. Two club lengths or stroke and distance only. If the ball was declared unplayable "through the green" then #2 could be an option.

"Take it out of the bunker" (not unless it's declared unplayable) "and drop within 2 club lengths of the NPR" (even if you could get relief this way, it would be 1 club length, instead of 2) "from the bunker, no closer to the hole, under penalty of 1 stroke."

[Gary Hill]

Anyone want to take a stab at documenting the other mistakes in Dan's relpy?

[Kilroy]

The rule of thumb I always remembered is; Free relief is one clublength. When a penalty is involved you get 2 clubs.

[Kilroy]

Anyone want to take a stab at documenting the other mistakes in Dan's relpy?

Oh no, he said mistakes. Guess I really blew it.

[Gary Hill]

The rule of thumb I always remembered is; Free relief is one clublength. When a penalty is involved you get 2 clubs.

True.

Unfortunately, that is not one of the mistakes.

[broken27]

Did some digging just for fun, and here is what I came up with:

25-1b (ii) - If the ball is in a bunker, the player must lift the ball and drop it either:

(a) Without penalty, in accordance with Clause (i) below, except that the nearest point of relief must be in the bunker and the ball must be dropped in the bunker, or if complete relief is impossible, as near as possible to the spot where the ball lay, but not nearer the hole, on a part of the course in the bunker that affords maximum available relief from the condition; or

(b) Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

(i) Through the Green: If the ball lies through the green, the player must lift the ball and drop it without penalty within one club-length of and not nearer the hole than the nearest point of relief. The nearest point of relief must not be in a hazard or on a putting green. When the ball is dropped within one club-length of the nearest point of relief, the ball must first strike a part of the course at a spot that avoids interference by the condition and is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.
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Seems like there's no stipulation of stroke and distance in this particular rule, or the "rehit" option. I'm probably wrong about that, but don't have the time to sort through every possible combination of circumstances in the rule book (even though it's kinda fun).

Dan

Dan

[Gary Hill]

broken27 -

You have pasted some nice text from the Rules, but haven't explained where Dan went wrong or what Rules are applicable in our scenario.

Don't give up now, you are halfway there.

[Gary Hill]

Point 1.

Other options in a water filled bunker;

Take it out of the bunker and drop within 2 club lengths of the NPR from the bunker, no closer to the hole, under penalty of 1 stroke.

You can't do that.

Rule 25-1b(ii)(b)
Under penalty of one stroke, outside the bunker, keeping the point where the ball lay directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the bunker the ball may be dropped.

Point 2.

Other options in a water filled bunker;

Declare it unplayable, then options are
drop within 2 clublengths of where you are

You can't do that.

If you are in the bunker and very close to the side, then "2 clublengths of where you are" would NOT be in the bunker.

Rule 28. [snippet]
If the unplayable ball is in a bunker, the player may proceed under Clause a, b or c. If he elects to proceed under Clause b or c, a ball must be dropped in the bunker.

You would have been correct to say: "drop in the bunker withith 2 clublengths..."


BTW - You can ALWAYS invoke stroke and distance.

1. outside a water hazard under Rule 28a. (Unplayable).
2. inside a water hazard under Rule 26-1a.

[Gary Hill]

Having to drop back into a bunker filled with water just amazes me.

Nowhere in my explanation does it say that you HAVE to drop in bunker filled with water. It was an example to explain "Maximum Available Relief". There are other options available.


re: Maximum Available Relief
Picture another scenario where there is a small pool of casual water in a bunker, but it is in the back (away from green) of the bunker.

The relief procedure stipulates that the point of relief must also be not nearer the hole. In this case, the player may not be able to find complete relief which is not nearer the hole but he may be able to find "Maximum Available Relief" which is not nearer the hole.

The player could use Rule 25-1b(ii)(a) and take a penalty free drop at this spot instead of other options which involve a penalty.